OP, are you implying that farmville is not a massive grindfest designed to milk it's playerbase of every penny? I agree with you about grinding and stupid 0.00001% bonus rewards for grinding for several weeks. But farmville is not a good example of a game devoid of grinding. I think that the problem is not connected to casual/hardcore. Casual games can be as grindy as hardcore - look at Farmville. Hardcore gamers got fed up with grinding first, while casuals are still in the beginning phase of being abused by grinds. Casual gaming is just more accessible, while at it's core there are still grindfests everywhere. But they will come at a point we have come. At least i hope so. I think the problem you have, and many of us, is that we want adventure in mmoRPG game, we want exploration, character development. Instead of character development we get a gear development as the only possible solution for getting better. There's literally no adventure, no exploration - because there's nothing to explore and no places to go adventuring to. There are no interesting fights prior to bosses, and only some of the bosses are interesting to fight. How do we call mobs before bosses? Trash. I think this name implies a lot about what people experience during raids/dungeons/flashpoints.