Me, too! Hopefully we can keep this momentum going and keep some pressure on the powers-that-be.

Yes, there seems to be another sudden wave of support for SGRA information. I can't wait for Friday's Q&A Answer thread. They're gonna have to ignore us EXTRA hard. Okay, that was naughty of me. Bad me! BAD!!! Keep it up, everyone! Gogogogogogogogogogo!!!!!!!!

As you mentioned, advertising budgets, company reputation, and many other factors determine a game's success. Again, I would accept a toggle as a compromise. But I simply do not see that the lack of one would be the financial disaster you predict, as many of Bioware's other games have been GLBT-friendly. And to reduce the scope of your argument to a simple "Well there's more of us than there are of you" does nothing to counter the evidence that games can be successful despite not letting the obvious majority demographic determine your every design decision.

Awesomesauce! Way to go peoples!

In your opinion, how did Bioware manage to succeed with Dragon age, which not only included same-gender flirting options, but also had some rather racy love scenes if I am not mistaken. Did Dragon Age have a toggle for this content (I ask because I honestly do not know the answer), and if not, how was Bioware able to make the game successful despite apparently ignoring demographics?

Again, not completely opposed to a toggle. I'm not crazy about the fact that there wasn't any need for a toggle until the issue of SGRA's was raised, but whatever. I would be willing to accept it as a compromise.

I just saw your post! Woot! Thank you! And there were two more posts about SGRA's after yours on the same page. I can't thank everyone enough for all the awesome support. It has made my day. EDIT: Um, or on the very next page after yours! I thought they were on the same page. Maybe something got edited. Whatevs. There are still two more posts following yours, that's the important thing. Well, that, and my need for an eye examination....

Okay, I'll admit it. I love the kind of shiny, fun, cosmetic stuff that you're referring to. HOWEVER. Since "Star Wars" is a licensed franchise, Bioware and all involved have a responsibility to preserve the general look and feel of the universe. I suspect (and this is just my opinion, with admittedly no proof to back it up!) that letting people run around in the Star Wars universe with immersion-breaking silly hats and other costumes might not be a popular idea. That said, if they could create shiny, fun, cosmetic stuff that *did* still manage to fit into the Star Wars universe, I'd be all for it. <raises an eyebrow at OP> Scmift indeed. EDIT: For some reason, I latched on to your "silly hat" example and completely ignored the part where you said "titles and other non-game-impacting things." I apologize for that. I do think something like what you suggest could be fun. But I also think that Bioware has significant work to do in optimizing other aspects of the game first. Not that you were in any way suggesting that collectibles should be a priority. Just wanted to put it out there before people rushed in with the tar and the feathers.

Your entire post was awesome, but I wanted to quote this particular part just to tell you: YOU ROCK! Thanks for the support!

I don't have a huge problem with some form of a <lowers voice to a whisper> toggle. I'll admit I wasn't crazy about the idea when it was first raised. After all, GLBT players were playing the game just fine without one, expressing their choices by either clicking the flirt option, or not clicking said option, and everyone thought that was fair. But as soon as SGRA's entered the picture it was "OH NOEZ, WE NEEDZ TEH TOGGLE!!!" It seemed like just a way for Bioware to cater to...well, let's just say "people of judgmental persuasion", or POJP's for short. However. My position changed somewhat after reading some posts from some really nice people (who I realized truly *did* support the inclusion of SGRA's) who suggested that, for role-playing reasons, they would like to simply set the orientation of their character and be done with it. Resulting flirts would then be based on their stated preference. I'm still not convinced that its necessary. But I'd accept it as a compromise. Of course, I'm not stupid. I realize that many of the afore-mentioned POJP's will be using it to ensure that their real-life views of correctness remain unchallenged. But whatever. Its their game. I'll never know what prompts they get, choose, or ignore anyway. So...if there are any of these POJP's reading this.. please note I just defended your right to be as much of a [insert your own word choice here] as you want to be. Because not everyone is like you. You're welcome.

Thank you, Mused Moose and Kioma. It wasn't my intent to put words in your mouths and I apologize if it came off that way. I appreciate your kind and thoughtful responses (not that I expected anything less from either of you!). GROUP HUG!!! C'MERE, YOU!!!

Guys, I know the negativity is a drag. And I'm sincerely sorry. But the name of this thread is "Same gender relationship clarifications?". Its specific purpose is to request information from the Dev Team, the Community Team, or some other official source. It is not the "Let's speculate among ourselves about same gender relationships" thread. Kioma and MusedMoose, please know that I think the world of you both. Your posts have been thoughtful, intelligent, and have been important contributions to this thread. I would sooner eat bantha poo than hurt your feelings. (Note: please don't make me eat bantha poo to prove this. Please.) But if the new expectation for this thread is that we cheerfully pretend we are not upset so that the thread doesn't seem unpleasant, I'm sorry, but I can't support that. Please don't misunderstand me; I think that the calls for a more balanced approach are probably a good thing. I will try to keep your feedback in mind while posting. Or, I don't know, maybe I just shouldn't post anymore. I just feel that if we are just going to give up putting pressure on them for a response and instead send the message "Hey, its okay, we're fine, sorry to have bothered you, we'll just chat with each other, then", then this thread has pretty much failed and we might as well stop posting at all and let it get buried. EDIT: Yes, I do. Nice post.

jediknightcub, I understand what you are saying. I truly do. And though I won't say that I think you are wrong to advise caution (well, someone has to, right? ) I also think that Bioware, Stephen Reid, and the Community Team is simply reaping what they've sown here. My personal feeling is that there is absolutely no excuse -- not one-- for there to be not even a single response from the Community Team here. Why is it too much to ask for someone to take 60 freaking seconds out of their busy day to post "Hey guys, Stephen Reid here (or whoever), just want you to know we hear you, and though I can't give you any more information than has already been released, I just want you to know that nothing has changed. "? That we are not even worth such minimal effort speaks volumes to me. So although you should by all means continue to react the way your conscience dictates, I am through accepting poor communication as their default position. If that's what they think we will accept, then they will never attempt to change their ways. Tomorrow I vote with my wallet.

I cannot agree more. I have actually been asking myself what I would do if they quietly slipped in SGRA's tomorrow, but still didn't talk to us. Honestly, I think I would still cancel my sub. Because, once again I say, it is not about the content. Its about the way you treat your customers. An analogy: There are two farmers selling apples at the side of the road. Both have the same prices, and the same quality of apples. One of the farmers is very friendly, smiling at you, and engaging in small pleasantries. The other is a sour, surly sort who, if asked for a bag of apples, thrusts it at you silently and puts his hand out for payment. He ignores any attempt to communicate, and if you ask him any questions about his apples, he just looks at you and blinks. You get the distinct impression he just wants you to give him your money and then go away. Who would you buy from? Further, even if the surly farmer has BETTER apples, or CHEAPER apples, many would STILL prefer to give their business to the nice farmer who treats them like a person. Will there be people who say, "Sure, I'll accept crappy treatment in order to save a few pennies on the cheaper apples..."? Sure, probably. But I'm not one of them.

I suppose #2 (They don't want to comment) might be the closest to the truth. Coincidentally, I don't want to pay a subscription fee to a company that doesn't feel I'm even worth speaking to. As to your #1 and #4, I refer back to the fact that I have received not one, but two separate emails from customer service with the phrase: "We must advise you that the statement previously posted by our Community Team on the official forums is the only comment BioWare will be making on this matter. " (emphasis mine) That doesn't sound like the content is nearly finished, and it flat out SAYS that they won't be answering it in the Q&A thread. And as to #3, well, someone should have the authority to talk to us. Surely not every person at Bioware from the top level down is going to be able to hide behind the "sorry, not authorized to talk to you" excuse. I can't even say they're doing a horrible job at reaching out to the GLBT community, because doing a horrible job would be an improvement. Regardless of whether they are working on the actual content, they are doing nothing at all in terms of community management.

Exactly. Also, it is worth noting that the first response I received from customer service included the phrase: And it was only after I refused to let the matter drop and replied to that comment that I received the second email with the slightly more encouraging tone. So, yeah, the prospect that someone was just trying to tell me something I wanted to hear to keep me from hitting the "reply" button yet again is fairly likely.

Well, who really knows it means? Apparently Stephen Reid and his Community Team think it is more appropriate for us to be getting our information from low-level customer support. Not that I wish to insult tech support. After all, when you ask them a question, they at least try to answer you, which is more than can be said for our Dev/Community Team. This entire experience has completely soured me on Bioware Austin. I am not impressed. EDIT: Its from an email I received from SWTOR customer service earlier today. But as I mentioned, it is not coming from the Community Team or the Dev team, but from an individual low-level customer service representative who unfortunately is having to do the jobs of the Community Team in regards to communicating with us.

Where are you getting this "fact"? Because I have seen no official source that confirms this.

Yep. My billing cycle renews in 2 days. That's not really enough time to reasonably expect them to be able to change their minds on how they are (not) communicating with us, so I decided that I'm going to let my sub auto-renew and then cancel it as soon as it does. In this way I can use the exit survey to make sure they know that my issue is with the lack of communication from the Community Team. Then, if at some point within that 30-day period they decide to reach out to us, I'll renew. More silence will mean my sub lapses. I honestly don't care if it takes awhile to implement SGRA's. That's totally fine. I'd rather they take their time and do it well. But I absolutely will not renew past this next billing cycle without some kind of good-faith gesture of communication. If that is something that other people can't even try to understand, well...I'm okay with that. /Shrug

I understand what you're saying, but the reality is that proponents of other various technical issues, game mechanical issues, and aesthetic issues do not have a sense of cultural identity intertwined with them. Because this issue does, it would be nice if the Community Team (and dang it, Ill say it, other players, too) could find it in themselves to be a bit more sensitive in their response to our numerous requests for dialogue. I am NOT suggesting that our issues are more important, or that they should be a higher priority. I'm simply saying that because there *is* a minority group here with a cultural identity surrounding these issues, it would be nice if Bioware (and others) tried to show a little of the patience with us that everyone keeps saying we should be showing to Bioware.

I'm honestly not sure how to respond to you. You are clearly being sincere and I realize that you aren't in any conceivable way trolling. I get that. However, I simply disagree with your position that its unreasonable to expect a little more communication from Bioware, and I disagree with your characterization that we are being "oversensitive". You seem to be of the opinion that because the issue in question relates to a particular minority group that it makes more sense for them to be tight-lipped and uncommunicative. I am of the opinion that it makes less sense. As a member of the minority group in question, I would like something, anything, even the smallest token gesture to reassure me that Bioware's commitment to GLBT inclusiveness remains intact. There is absolutely no need on anyone's part to remain tight-lipped about that. Saying something to that effect would not in any way "overpromise" anything. There is no justifiable excuse why there isn't a single response from the Community Team. If the Community Team was even trying to engage us, and we were still complaining, then I would concede that you have a point. But all I'm seeing from your side of the argument seems to be the suggestion that we have no right to feel the way we do. I guess all I can say is that I respectfully disagree.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? I think its a bit unfair to claim that the devs are avoiding this thread due to the "emotional intensity" when it is their own lack of response over a prolonged period of time that has cause the intensity that you speak of.

I completely agree with the OP. Most of the objections to having more transparency seem to be: 1. But no other game does this! That's a pretty sad reason to justify crappy communication in my opinion. 2. But if they gave honest updates, people would rage! Well, this is sometimes a valid point, but it very much depends on the circumstance. However, if it is a subject that people are already raging over, then saying you don't want to address it because people might rage is just a weak excuse for not communicating.

I could understand not giving a whole lot of details. But it surely wouldn't be a big deal for someone from the CR team to come into this thread and say something to the effect of: Honestly, a response like that would cost them absolutely nothing, and would not impose upon their obsessive need for secrecy, yet it would make a huge difference in the way I perceive the situation. Why is this so difficult for them?

Yes, I totally agree. I only made the distinction between "patches" and "content expansions" because earlier in this thread someone was posting a quote about SGRA content coming in "content expansions", and trying to claim that we were trolling because Bioware had already given us the information we were seeking, and saying that it was clear that they meant SGRA's would only be available with new companions introduced in a future expansion. But, as you correctly point out, it isn't clear at all; we still don't really know anything.