And this is exactly why I support the Companion Need addition to the roll. The popular counter-argument to that is that certain classes have companions that use the same stats as their main character, enabling them to "Need" roll when it's actually a Companion Roll. In doing this, they are overlooking the Companion Need option and in effect being dishonest. There is no cure for that. But I promise you I am not going to be dishonest on my rolls, and though I don't know you at all really I bet you aren't going to be dishonest about it either. And if someone is dishonest? It happens. We all have to live with our choices. We are often not punished for our sins, but we are always punished by them.

What I am saying is what I am saying. Fair and intelligent are not the same. Round Robin and Roll/Pass are both very fair. They are not efficient, faster, smarter ways to get gear for anyone. In other words, not the brightest choice.

At 50, I use my companion to do the dailies on Belsavis and Ilum. I can't use it in WZs or Operations. I haven't tried it in any HM FPs, but suspect that even in full Rakata gear it would fall short on the role I needed it to fill. So for me the question is do I roll need for that companion to shave maybe a few minutes off daily quests when an actual player could use that gear as an upgrade for his character? No.

Exactly right. What I get from their argument is basically a "Roll" or "Pass" system is fairest. And that may be true, Round Robin also seems fair to me. Fair, but maybe not the brightest way to try and gear anyone up.

I also read that post, though good luck finding it now. I think next time I pass some guys playing a game, I'll jump in and tell them they need to play by my rules even though I hate the game they are playing, and hate everyone involved in playing it.

Well...what about the player insisting he is going to sell the item but use the creds for new enhancements, so he is indeed using the item in some way? How I wish there was an end to this debate in one logical solution. Where everything breaks down is the "Use in some way". Some ways are accepted, some are not.

So his sense of entitlement is valid and important. The other parties is not. Seems kinda contradictory to me.

Actual instances of argumentum ad hominem are relatively rare. Ironically, the fallacy is most often committed by those who accuse their opponents of ad hominem, since they try to dismiss the opposition not by engaging with their arguments, but by claiming that they resort to personal attacks. Those who are quick to squeal "ad hominem" are often guilty of several other logical fallacies, including one of the worst of all: the fallacious belief that introducing an impressive-sounding Latin term somehow gives one the decisive edge in an argument. Copied and pasted, but seems to go well here.

Usually when backed into a corner on this thread the Gods of Ad Hominem are called upon quickly to smite us down. Hey! You just made a point that I have no argument for! I call Ad Hominen on you!

You are staunchly defending the right to need for companions, yet you attempt to trivialize someone else's definition of need. In other words, you are contradicting yourself.

I did once group with this fellow on Voss before I hit 50. He rolled Need on EVERY green/blue/purple/orange that dropped. I don't know about you, but before I hit 50 I was so broke it wasn't funny from trying to level crew skills, not to mention how much training was, then trying to save for level 50 speeder training. The smart thing to do would have been for me just to start need rolling on everything too, I guess, but I feel strongly enough about what the Need button is for that I just dropped group and continued soloing. And I did NEED the credits, but who doesn't need credits at that level? That is just not what the Need button is for.

My experience is much the same as yours. Some folks here have said it happened that a person did need roll for a companion when a player character could have used the gear in question, but I think this is the exception, not the rule. It is, by and large, a thread to come and hone your arguing skills to a fine point by dissecting a post word by word and playing semantics games.

Very well put and I could not agree more.

Best in Slot...in other words, say like your earpiece, the ones they have listed here would be the best the game offers at this time.

Off topic, but I am apparently missing one heroic quest there. Theres the one with the 3 terminals that you deactivate, and the one where you kill the Jedi thats guarding the cells that I know, where is the other one?

I actually do run the dailies on Ilum and Belsavis, usually. I also do not roll need for my companion. Anyone that is that hung up on gearing out their companion can use the daily commendations to do a pretty nice job of this, not to mention one quest actually gives nice orange companion weapons. (Group quest, but can be soloed with a death or two depending on your class) I can't imagine I could do these quests much more efficiently if my companion WAS in full Rakata gear. I think thats more a status symbol thing than something of actual benefit. (My opinion.)

One of the most widely misused terms on the Net is "ad hominem". It is most often introduced into a discussion by certain delicate types, delicate of personality and mind, whenever their opponents resort to a bit of sarcasm. As soon as the suspicion of an insult appears, they summon the angels of ad hominem to smite down their foes, before ascending to argument heaven in a blaze of sanctimonious glory. They may not have much up top, but by God, they don't need it when they've got ad hominem on their side. It's the secret weapon that delivers them from any argument unscathed. Actual instances of argumentum ad hominem are relatively rare. Ironically, the fallacy is most often committed by those who accuse their opponents of ad hominem, since they try to dismiss the opposition not by engaging with their arguments, but by claiming that they resort to personal attacks. Those who are quick to squeal "ad hominem" are often guilty of several other logical fallacies, including one of the worst of all: the fallacious belief that introducing an impressive-sounding Latin term somehow gives one the decisive edge in an argument.

You don't like the game. You don't like the community. Yet here you are, hour after hour, on the forums telling us how we should play it. One could almost think you are just here to argue for the sake of arguing. It is my sincere hope that I am a big part of the community that you don't like. Trust me, that is a two-way street.

What are you trying to do, man? Take away his "I Win" button? What anyone thinks age has to do with the topic is beyond me. I guess it's like "I'll impress everyone with my credentials and they will see things my way." I thought it was only the 13 year olds that constantly obsessed over calling everyone a "kid". Or whipper-snapper, as the case may be.

Short version: I am old and wise. You are all uneducated. Now who is throwing insults?

Very awesome gotcha trap man. You have finally reached the crux of the argument. But not only do they want the right to do it acknowledged, but also they want it to be accepted as the totally fair, just, and awesome way. In other words, I want to be a jerk but I don't want anyone to think I'm a jerk.

So you define "need" as any reason at all. Credits, companion, friend, dog, mother. So what part of "everything" does this not cover?

I would say parroting is exactly the right word. The only thing he got wrong was its more like 400+ pages.

As much as it should settle things, you are going to have some folks quite resistant to having their troll fodder taken away. But...but....but...that doesn't say anything!!! And even if it does its going to be a LONG time before it happens!! Don't leave this thread I want to keep argueing!!!

In doing that, they would be overlooking the "Need for Companion" option. Dishonest people are going to be dishonest, honest people will be honest. At the end of the day, its ourselves we have to live with. When you find you can't quite meet your own eyes in a mirror then it is perhaps time to rethink your lifestyle.