http://www.torparse.com/a/469443/25/0/Damage+Dealt 3016.41 Character: Ros'alyn | Class: Sage | Spec: Telekinetics (3/36/7) First 3K parse for these leaderboards. Opener could have been better, and need to rework a couple things. Gonna improve soon.

Death to Tyrans.....he's a punk. =/ Huzzah!

.....I see you creepin. Don't make me parse a 3k...>_> Lol

http://www.torparse.com/a/440649/7/0/Damage+Dealt 2973.96! Character: Ros'alyn | Class: Sage | Spec: 3/36/7 (Telekinetics) Finally got that one good parse. And yes, I know the time drop tool has to technically say 5:01 in order to get that 2973, but it isn't actually a full second after 5 minutes, it's only half a second. And the 5 minute mark according to TORparse is about half a second before 5 minutes. Either one is better than my current parse, but obviously I would very much prefer the one half a second after 5 minutes. =)

Name: Ros'alyn AC: Sage DPS: http://www.torparse.com/a/435331/time/1379982442/1379982756/0/Damage+Dealt 3002.34 No AMR repost, but the only significant change is using a double SA setup and a 2/36/8 spec instead of 3/36/7.

Yeah it does suck. All the work we're putting into NiM right now is basically for nothing if BW goes live with the new OPs as they are. I know that's how MMOs usually go, but it still sucks. =/

Yeah I also am very against what BW is doing with the gear. S&V NiM dropped what, 2 months ago or something? It'll be less than half a year before a new tier of gear comes out. From a player perspective, that's fantastic. It means more shinies for people to get at faster rates..... ......if the content were designed for the average player in the first place. That's where the problem is. If BW was gonna do something like this, then the NiM OPs should've been more accessible to average players. But then the inverse becomes a problem, where the content is too easy and people start complaining that there's no sense of accomplishment. As it stands, not very many guilds (or players, as I'm starting to find) are capable of running NiM progression. And I'm not talking about WH, because any HM capable team will, in time, be able to clear that with relative ease, as evidenced by the multitude of WH NiM clears. So, because of this, the 75 gear is pretty difficult to obtain. It's an accomplishment, it means something. People see 75 gear on a character and go "Wow, they must be pretty decent to be able to get that much 75 gear." At least, that's usually what happens in my experience, barring trolls or ignorant people (which can't be helped). But now, as Bombuster and Roatha have said, the current difficulty of the new OPs is not in line with the gear it drops. If they are currently easy enough for a team in full 72 gear to clear, thereby giving them TWO tiers of gear higher, then what even is the point of the current NiM OPs in the first place? We'd all basically just be wasting our time right now clearing stuff that's gonna become abysmally easy once 78 gear drops. Now, as has been mentioned, this is all assuming that BW goes live with the new OPs as they currently are. But really, even if they bump the difficulty up, they'd have to make it harder than TFB and SV NiM to justify the gear increase. Even equal difficulty wouldn't justify it because then the current NiM OPs still become obsolete from a progression standpoint and a gearing standpoint, since the new OPs will offer what the current OPs is offering in terms of difficulty, except with better rewards. In my opinion, the new HM OPs should have been a mirror to the current NiM OPs, in that they are about equal in difficulty (maybe just a smidge easier to encourage people to do new content) and drop 75 gear as well. Then people could choose which they wanted to progress on, and keeping a progression list would have been much easier as there would be no squabble over drastically less difficulty, AND the gear dropped from the new OPs wouldn't diminish the difficulty of the current OPs and make them easier to clear, since they would be dropping the same gear. This would allow BW to introduce a new gear tier with the NiM versions of the new OPs, while still making 75 gear accessible and relevant to more than just the hardcore raider. The only problem with THIS approach is that people will start complaining that the game is moving too slow, and that more gear needs to come out. I dunno, I simply type what I'm thinking sometimes. This was my 2 cents on the whole matter.

^ This, only not quite so harsh. A good Shadow in 72s can average a 2600 on a dummy. That's without armor debuff. That's without it's execute talents. The actual number when you factor in armor debuff and generally static fighting (like Thrasher) is going to be much higher. If the fight is not Infil friendly, switch to balance. Balance too boring? Well that's something for the devs to consider. But as it was mentioned, it isn't uncompetitive. That's why I look at an average 2800 parse on my Sage and feel confident in it. That's before armor debuff. A good Sage DPS can pull the numbers. A good Shadow DPS can pull the numbers. A good COmmando DPS can pull the numbers. Pretty much every class can pull the numbers. It's a matter of learning the class and how it interacts with each boss. Does that mean class balance doesn't need to happen? Quite the opposite. It's still more advantageous to bring a Sent or a GS to a raid fight. But that ISN'T because the other classes are incapable or bad. It's because it's simply imbalanced. That much is not disputed.

......The capability is there for MOST classes to output the damage. =P Lol jk. I've seen NiM capable parses for all classes, and I'm not just talking about the stupid high crit rate ones. I don't necessarily agree with the L2P response the devs gave Sorcs (which reflects a bit of their attitude on the matter) but at it's core it can't be denied as having some truth. At the same time, content shouldn't be so frustratingly hard that only a select few can do it. I think BW is having trouble finding that balance right now (pre-nerf DG anyone?). Am I making excuses for them? Absolutely not. They should get their crap together and do something to fix the imbalance in the game. It just frustrates me how some are blowing this imbalance out of proportion, as if it were game breaking. It isn't (not for PvE anyway).

Be convinced of whatever you like, but healing with a Sage/Sorc is not impossible, I successfully do it every week. And it isn't painful or stressful at all. It feels fine. I'm not sure what this force regen bug is you're talking about, but if it's something important then I sure haven't noticed it. Heck, I've been stuck solo healing the last minute of some boss fights before. I solo healed NiM Kephess soft enrage at the end by myself. *shrug* I don't have numbers for you. I don't have a spreadsheet for you. But in my experience, Sage healing feels just fine where it is in relation to endgame PvE content. Again, I cannot speak for PvP since I don't do it, and I'm 100% confident in the people who are saying that Sages need to be reworked in PvP. Not in PvE though. If the content is too hard, don't play it. You can't expect the devs to change content (or classes) to cater to someone who is, in essence, saying "Waaa, this is too hard! Make it easier." The Sorc questions were terrible, and it reflected the attitude that Sorc/Sage players felt entitled and wanted freebies to make the game easier. This is all just my personal opinion, so you are free to disagree with it. All I'm saying is that, not only is endgame PvE content possible with a Sage, it's MORE than possible, DPS OR healing. *shrug*

Our guild can have a group of people consisting of a Vanguard, a Commando, a Sage, and a Gunslinger who can EASILY meet DPS requirements on endgame NiM content, in 72 gear. Don't spout nonsense. The capability is there for the other classes to output the damage.

While I cannot speak for PvP, since I do not PvP, I can say with 100% certainty that Sages are fully capable of NiM endgame content, in as little as half 69/72 gear. The complaint about force management is ridiculous, it IS possible to manage energy properly and still put out the healing numbers required by operations. The OPs are MEANT to be challenging, that's the point. Is it fair that Scoundrels are OP? Not at all. But as far as PvE goes, it's not that Sages are gimped. Scoundrels are just a little better than I think the devs intended.

Lolz.

Kepheeeeesssssssssss! O_O

Yes, I also agree with this. The numbers seen on this leaderboard are nothing more than a product of a ridiculously unrealistic crit chance occurring over 5 minutes. My average DPS is probably closer to 2800-2850 more than anything. HOWEVER, as was also mentioned, crit rate isn't the ONLY thing that causes a good parse. A solid rotation, properly-timed cooldowns, and overall effective execution are what lead to good parses (usually, unless the crit rate is so high that it makes up for bad rotation and bad RNG to a degree). But mostly it's the execution that cause good numbers. And it is that reason alone why I love the idea of dummy parsing so much. These numbers mean absolutely nothing when you get to it. Zippo. Zilch. Goose Egg. Why? Because the chances of getting a crit rate like those in these parses WHILE in an operation boss, are pretty slim, just as it's a slim chance on a dummy. But the PRACTICE and experience you gain in your class is invaluable. By learning from others who have solidified their rotation to a T (or simply solidifying your own rotation to a T after constant practice) you become more and more consistent as a DPS, and this shows in a raid setting. Where the next guy is spiking DPS up and down because he doesn't know his spec well enough to execute it perfectly, you now bring something of great value to the raid with your DPS: Static damage. The ability to perform in every part of the operation, and the imparting of confidence in the rest of your team that you will perform at an above average level at all times, with the chance to perform better based on varying factors (like crit rate, or AoE damage). That's why I believe these leaderboards are so important. They push us to hone our skills in an environment of friendly competition, and as a result, ALL of us become better players and improve not only what we bring to our respective guilds, but the knowledge we can bring to others who are genuinely yearning to learn how to do better at the game. =) I'm not saying that we're obligated to teach others, per se, but simply that many more people benefit besides ourselves as a result of our hard work to improve ourselves. And that's something anyone can do.

Name: Ros'alyn AC: Sage Spec: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/02604c31-2999-4fd1-908d-74d39a646924 DPS: http://www.torparse.com/a/409765/time/1378183790/1378184109/0/Damage+Dealt 2979.23 Somehow 4th place seems disheartening, and then I realize I still have 4 69 armorings and a crit enhancement, and full 72s otherwise except for that crit enhancement and my bracers, while everyone else has more 75 stuff. Must improve!

That's the point, it isn't finding a "trick". Pre-loading flechette round is something that can be done in a raid situation. Providing an armor debuff for yourself is something that can be done in a raid situation (and Commandos can't HELP that if they're in gunnery, unless you're calling the entire gunnery spec invalid). Executes are something that can be done in a raid situation and NOT on a dummy (which is why Shadow parses are considerably lower than all others). Intentionally making use of a bug in the game in order to boost your numbers on a dummy, strictly speaking, is not exploiting anything since it isn't helping you clear game content easier. If you were using double SA relics, heal/damage double proc on an SA, or BOTH in a raid situation and it was evident that this was making the game easier than intended, then technically under the ToS I believe that counts EXACTLY as exploitation. And I think that's the point here. At the end of the day, these parses are nothing more than a test of rotation consistency until you hit that one good parse where your crit rate is through the roof. So it really comes down to a matter of ethics when mentioning "honorable" play. One person's definition of honorable might be different from another, but trying to make a system wherein everyone has equal ground to stand on to start (aka the same gear being available to all) is probably the closest to "honorable" play. Intentionally using a spec with talented self-heals that one would never use in a raid situation if they were trying to maximize DPS (under normal, bugless circumstances), simply to double proc an SA relic to boost their numbers on a dummy parse (which as KBN pointed out, equates to having an extra relic), is not really honorable since not everyone has a self-heal talent that allows them to do this. However, as was also pointed out, some specs simply CAN'T avoid this, like Consular Balance and Watchman Sentinel, since they NEED those self-heal talents to even spec up the tree properly, whereas other specs don't need to, or in some cases CAN'T. His aim is to let Balance consular and Watchman sentinels know that their numbers are going to be inflated a bit till this bug gets fixed, but also that no one else should be doing this because EVERYONE can't do it in all damage specs. Therefore it isn't equal ground. And yeah, that makes Watchman and Balance more powerful atm. But that can't be helped, and letting others make use of an unintended game mechanic because two specs can't HELP making use of it isn't right because not everyone needs to, or can, make use of it. Also, making use of this bug is really self-destructive because, should someone (or a whole raids' worth of DPS players) start relying on it to help clear content easier, when the bug gets fixed then they may find that they're not up to the task they were accomplishing before. And even if that's a bit of an extreme example, it would still be a personal disappointment to hit all these great numbers on a dummy and then have the bug fixed, only to never be able to hit those numbers again. And in that sense I really kinda feel bad for Balance and Watchman, even if they are experiencing a non-intended DPS boost right now.

http://www.torparse.com/a/409765/5/0/Overview 2943.82 Character: Ros'alyn | Class: Sage | Spec: 3/36/7 (telekinetics) Soooooo nice. I broke 42 APM! Probably won't get this good a parse for a little while. =P P.S. - If we go by any amount of time, my highest point was 2979! So close!

I really love the healthy sense of competition everyone has on the DPS boards. The Shadow battle between Aerre, Mik and Jabs, and the Sage battle between Saph'ryn and I, really seem to push us to our limit and force us to better ourselves constantly. Even in a spec that's completely RNG based (*coughTELEKINETICScough*) it pushes us to be the most consistent we can be parse after parse after parse until we hit that one really good number, and then all our consistency finally pays off. =)

Ha...Haha.......Ahahahaha......This thread is so much gold. So much ignorance and unwillingness to listen to facts... Good job internet. Good job.

http://www.torparse.com/a/400184/4/0/Damage+Dealt 2916.56 Character: Ros'alyn | Class: Sage | Build: 3/36/7 FINALLY broke 2900! I still need 4 72 armorings and Willpower augments to be full optimized 72s.

Just hire a group of mercenaries to fly to his sector and blow up all his assets and leave him with nothing. ..........Oh wait, this isn't Eve? O.o

http://www.torparse.com/a/396505/2/0/Damage+Dealt 2859.92 Character: Ros'alyn | Class: Sage | Build: 3/36/7 Getting closer. Still need full willpower augs and a BA relic, as well as 72 set bonus armorings (currently wearing 69 set bonus armorings).

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssss

So how is this fixable? Like, if I parsed in Balance Spec would I just refrain from speccing into the self-heal talent?