Your thread title is incorrect the set bonus is staying tied to the armoring, but the partisan gear is a completely different set that happens to share the same set bonus. I am not sure why they did it, but they decided the lvl 55+ pvp gear is a completely different set.

Yes it's helpful, but the role of the stealther is better suited for a assassin. They have all the utility and cc. No one is going to put a DPs operative at the goal line in huttball, when you can use an assassin who is 10x better at that job.

Yes, transcendence is counterable, but it's such a considerable advantage everyone brings one. People didn't seem to be as opposed to marauders/sentinels having a group speed boost as operatives/scoundrels having a speed boost, which is why I am so dumbfounded. Yes scamper is faster then trans, but why shouldn't a single person speed boost be faster. Especially, considering the lack of utility the class brings. You also state that 2/5 wzs scoundrels/operatives are superior because of scamper, but what about the 3 other wzs. You put yourself at an advantage for 2 wzs, but make yourself inferior to the other 3. Also, the devs have stated they know the issue with civil war in rwz taking 20m with each team having a side node and everyone fighting for the mid is an issue, is hopefully they fix that. That will make everyone enjoy civil war more in rwz and make the scamper ability less of an impact. What I meant by sub-bar dps is not the dps itself but the class in general. The class brings burst dps and stealth, that's it, outside of scamper. An assassin does both of those roles better while having better cc, such as a knockback that can change the fight in huttball. It's why the class in general is dead weight in terms of it's role as a DPSer. Using what you said, a lot of rwzs bring operative healers, so wouldn't huttball be less game-breaking then since both teams will have one to counter it.

Take civil war. Pretend scamper is nerfed into obliviion so it has no impact. Team1: has transcendence Team2: doesn't have transcendence Who wins? Team 1 because of transcendence. Take the same situation for huttball, the team with transcendence is exactly how you described it, they have the momentum giving themselves the advantage. Why is it ok for a marauder/sentintel to impact the flow of the game and not ok for a operative/scoundrel? I have yet to see a single person answer this question in the thread. People act like transcendence is not game-breaking, but then tell me why every single rwz team has one? Now you ignored my part about an operative/scoundrel getting first possession of huttball. They bring no utility, so outside of those first 10 seconds they have a subpar dps putting themselves at a disadvantage in terms of dps, utility etc. during the huttball match. It's a lot easier to prevent a cap or cap the ball when you have another person who can knock them off the ledge, leap up, force pull people etc. By bringing that operative/scoundrel you have gauranteed yourself to have less dps, utilty etc. for scamper.

Yes they have received DPS changes, so I shouldn't of made it sound that bad. The reality is that they are still in a similar state when comparing them to before the expansion if you ignore scamper. The reason I say ignore scamper is because people want to nerf it into oblivion. Nerfing it, makes it inferior in every way compared to another class, besides heals. Your post re-iterates my point to a certain degree, an operative/scoundrel has horrible utility, but brings burst, which is worst then assassin/shadow. I am so against nerfing scamper because they bring nothing to the table that a class can't do better, which no one including yourself has shown. I am fine if they nerf scamper, but they need to add or change aspects of the class to bring it on par with the other classes to make it viable. The only reason DPS operatives are being considered is scamper, that ability is why people might actually consider bringing 1. I don't disagree that scamper is an extremely powerful ability, but he majority of the people whining probably will never ever do rwz or be in a situation where scamper wins the game by itself. If you watch huttball matches you can see many people who don't bother to go for capping or stopping the person from capping it. In the end for the majority of these people whining, their team's lack of coordination, strategy etc. will determine the outcome of the match and not scamper.

So the other team brought a class that affects the first 10s of the match by getting the huttball first, what happens during the 10 other minutes in the match? People pulling allies to cap, people stealthing at the goal line, people leaping to enemies or allies to cap or stop the cap etc. During that period of time the team with the DPS operative to get the first huttball possession is at a disadvantage in terns of capping or stopping the cap for the rest of the match.

Finally a person that can rationally talk and isn't just a QQ whiner, even though I don't agree with you. Your earlier post proved my point that DPS operatives never brought anything to the table outside of heals and they still dont, except scamper. You even confirmed that sentinels/marauders bring a ton more to the table, which is why people didn't have an issue bringing them, but people have an issue bringing DPS operatives. The fact that people are so against bringing a DPS operative, just shows how badly the class is and by nerfing scamper you ruin the class of being competitive in rwz. By nerfing scamper you put DPS operatives in the exact same spot as before the expansion. The only significant change that happened in the expansion was scamper, thus nerfing it, you remove their viability in rwz. If they're going to nerf scamper they sure as hell better give a ton more abilities to operatives, so they bring utility. Let's face it if you remove transcendence and scamper, marauders/sentinels>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DPS operatives/scoundrels in terms of damage or utiliy. In the end why is it fair to nerf operatives/scroundrels, when they bring nothing to the table outside heals. Thus I ask you how is it game-breaking to bring a class specifically for getting the huttball first, at the same time sacrificing all this utility, damage etc. for a class that actually does more then scamper. People seem to use huttball as the most OP scenario for scamper, yet look at huttball. They don't have knockbacks, leaps to enemies or allies, force pulling enemies or allies. In the end they only bring heals, stealth and scamper, which people want to nerf. Let's face it stealth really isn't as big of a advantage considering a shadow/assassin will be far better suited for any role a stealther will play. You also can't tell me transcendence isn't game breaking, like you claim scamper does. Every rwz team has transcendence for a reason and with the marauders/sentinels you bring a ton of damage and utility. A team that brings a DPS scoundrels sacrifices a huge amount of utility, damage and survivability for 1 ability, which sounds like a pretty hefty tradeoff to me. Stating that it's game breaking if they get the ball first, no not really. Yes, they're at a severe disadvantage, but guess what so is a team that doesn't have transcendence. You're also taking out of context the lack of utility of the operative in kiling the ball carrier, stopping them from capping etc. All of those things a marauder/sentinel or any other class that is brought on rwz teams. Like I stated it's a hefty tradeoff, which people seem to forget.

LOL didn't bother to list it out because you know DPS operatives/scoundrels lose in the utility department. Like another poster stated they didn't gain anything beyound scamper, so my point is completely valid. To make you feel better compare a DPS operative/scoundrel ignoring their scamper and compare it to a rwz dps class/spec. The end result is the dps operative/scoundrel loses. If DPS operatives/scoundrels are so awesome without scamper please show why they are so awesome? All I see in this thread and every scamper thread is the fact that people only look at scamper and ignore the lack of utility the class brings. You remove/nerf scamper you will notice that DPS operatives/scoundrels will never be present in rwz.

Their healing ability I was never debating. **** ton of utility as DPS? really? You mean all those DPS operatives that exist in rwz before the expansion? Oh ya there were none. My point is that DPS operatives were so bad that no one brought them, now that they actually bring something to the table other then heals people QQ and want a nerf. People complain about huttball, yet other then the roll or heals they provide nothing. They don't have leap to enemies or allies, they don't have a force pull, pull allies, knockback etc. If they have all this massive utility as DPS list that and compare it to a DPS class/spec that is brought into rwz. You will notice that they pale in comparison to any other class once you nerf/remove the roll like a lot of people want.

This thread just proves it's ok for sentinels/marauders to give a group speed buff which gives them an an unfair advantage to get the huttball, compared to a team without transcendence. Yet, it's not ok for scoundrels/operatives to give their team an unfair advantage by speed bursting themselves to the huttball compared to a team without a operative/scoundrel. In the end QQ more because you don't want to bring an operative that provides zero utility. You want to bring a marauder/sentinel or other classes that actually provide the team with more than a self speed burst.

I believe alactrity > shiv speed buff. The only times I can see speed buff being useful is catching a runner, assuming i am not snared, or sever tendon is on CD. The other time is against people who keyboard turn, being able to run around them in circles hitting them while they can't hit you is priceless. Then again being able to kill a subpar player isn't something you should waste spec points on.

Yet another poster who still won't comment on my post to refute my argument. Transcendence teams will have their whole team get the ball without opposition before the team without transcendence does. No one seems to have a problem with it. When Operatives/scoundrels can grab the ball without opposition versus a team without a scoundrel/operative, it's not ok apparently.

What a waste of a whine thread. It's obvious they won't remove it or they will have to revert other changes. They already removed expertise from wh/ewh gear, so the only people who will have expertise is the ppl who rushed to lvl 55. All the previous pvpers who didn't rush to 55 will just become fodder. The people without expertise might as well be naked because with zero expertise they will just get 2 shot.

I like the hugely failed logic in this thread. Everyone assumes the wz team has transcendence, oh wait I know why they do because the ability is insanely useful. No rwz team runs without one because if they do they won't get the huttball first. You guys think it's fine for a transcendence team to get the huttball first compared to a team without trans. Yet, it's not ok for a team with an operative/scoundrel to get the huttball first compared to a team without one. The real issue is people want the operative/scoundrel to be nerfed into the ground, so they don't have to bring one because outside of their roll and heals, they provide absolutely no utility.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Seriously an assassin complaining about someone gaining usefulness in huttball, a freaking assassin was the king of huttball before scamper was put in. An operative/scoundrel will now actually provide some usefullness in this wz, besides healing.

Really so the issue is that they can get to a node quicker? Before OP/soundrels had the roll marauders/sents had transcendence, guess what tell me a single class that can beat a transcendence marauder/sentinel to a node? NONE, the only one who can beat them is another person with trans, why do you think rated teams had a trans on every team. People act like the OP/scoundrel speed buff is so OP in huttball. Guess what before the roll scoundrels were one of the worst classes in huttball, they didn't have a speed burst, leap, knockback etc. Scoundrels/Ops had one of the worst mobility as a melee class, they finally have some now.

*** your complaint is that lvl 50 gear has better stats then lvl 55 gear, yet you don't show a single shred of evidence. Showing us what your surge % is and what not is completely useless. If you really think lvl 50 pvp wh gear is better than lvl 55 partisan gear then show an actual comparison of the stats.

I noticed the same thing too, but I just chalked it up to RNG. Although, given all the bugs with bolster, crew skills etc. I am not suprised if they messed up their "random" algorithm

I completely agree, anyone who thought about the icons for 30s could of realized the problems from using icons of lower level missions. Shoot before the expansion came out some of the missions had similar icons and they repeated their mistake.

I do agree that the reward for completing a pvp match and the amount of credits you earn from the weekly/daily need to be upped dramatically. The comment I never understood is people such as the OP stating that they feel they need to PVE to stay competitive in pvp. I earned money reselling underpriced items on the GTN, I also send my companions out on missions to gather materials or craft to upgrade my gear or sell it on the GTN. I have made millions with crew skills without ever having to go out to pve to farm mats. People need to stop being lazy and maximize their income. It takes almost zero effort to send companions out to gather mats and craft items.

According to your other poster you're lvl 28, which is not the level bracket that has the problem. It seems imperial characters lvl50-54 are unable to get the pvp daily/weekly. I know my lvl 50-54 imperial characters can't get them.

You're either bugged or blind, like others stated there are medpacks at lvl 410

LOL that doesn't even make sense. You do realize the bolster system made it better for people with multiple characters because they didn't need to gear X different characters. So if you have 4 lvl 50s, you didn't need to gear 4 chars versus someone who only has 1 50, so they only need to gear 1 50. Tell me again how this discourages people playing multiple chars?

I have both a 50 assassin and 50 operative, the only times I have the issue you stated is if I have a DoT on myself.

I think if I remember reading correctly that in terms of PVE scoundrel is the 2nd worst dps and the assassin is the 3rd worst.