Not sure where Seismic Grenades came into the discussion, but even so im pretty sure they dont. Havent tested it, but I see Assassins picking up ball in huttball in rated every day popping shroud whilst everybody else is lieing on the floor due to grenades. (except me in entrench ofc) Tested using SoS then during channel Assassin uses Force Shroud. The DoT are still applied, but since the DoT's are only for a 4 sec duration from the first hit of SoS (as far as I can tell anyway) a usually shroud will outlast it. Especially if assassin has the 1 sec extended duration. I

1: His shroud will instantly remove the SoS DoT. 2: I think shroud also removes the DoT's here, or maybe I just never get the assassin back out of stealth because shroud lasts long enough for SoS to go away first? Will try test this tonight. 3: This I think is the only time when SoS tactic is gonna work.

hehe, im gonna nod at the "using probe at forceshroud". Thats a guarenteed loss right there and so so very annoying. Very nice post mate, interesting read.

I dont see how you can save entrench until after combat stealth. For me its a trade. Im trading my entrench for their Force Shroud and combat stealth. This is what I want. Its the best situation I can give my self against a class that has so many oppertunities and possibilites in duels. One thing i sometimes try is to only cast Ballistic Shield then attempt to cast Orbital. many players seem to think link the visuals of Ballistic Shields to entrench, this way im sometimes able to cheat an assassin into combat stealthing away and saving entrench. Not gonna work twice on the same guy though

At the moment, I dont think alot of assassins are aware of this "weakness". Besided the fact the Shroud is horribly bugged and broken as it stands no assasin will expect to be pulled out of stealth by a dot after activating shroud. I will be entrenched with Ballistic Shields by the time i use SoS. I dont see the assassin having much of a choice but using is shroud when Entrench/Orbital goes down. If they dont, the AoE will destroy them. If they stay at distance, my Snipes/ambush will also detsroy them. If they PoP both shroud and Deflection they will be very very voulnarable later. Deception assassins can pretty much wreck a sniper in seconds i know, but i find that most often their opener really doesnt hurt me alot before the time i can pulse em back. From that point they wont touch me agian before they have to use shroud. Sounded wrong....My duels with the Assassins i duel most are very very even. basically you can say its a cointoss. guy with most crits wins. 1 mistake from either side, and duel becomes like 70% hp left to 0%. Assassins are hard class to deal with for sure.

Now te problem is not to scarry him too soon be poping up entrench. Here is the problem folks: If he sees you entrench before SoS he just combat stealths. If you SoS before entrench, he just stuns, or lw slashes you. Without having to use force shroud. How to deal with this? Wish i know more about the actual skills in deception tree, cause as it stands i cant really give a good detailed description of what happens in my duels. This should be taken with "a grain of salt" cause assassins have so many ways to open duels that you cant really have 1 game plan agianst them. They open, knock you down ---> I eat this wanting to pop my first shield probe soon as possible. I put Int. Probe up and instantly knock him back Now, some assassins pop sprint, so you gotta be fast with your plasma probe and catch him. If above part somehow failed you are pretty ****ed. Now, all the DoT's and AoE means he wont be rooted for more than 2 sec which is ok though. Ill Laze target + snipe and by now he's gonna be pretty close. Since I dont want to be knocked down by Low strike I will pop entrench now (+ orbital + evasion) The 3 sec cast time is alot of free time for a deception assassin, i prefer evasion here. Since Int. Probe is already on him, he needs to shroud to go stealth. When he pops Shroud i will SoS him. This WILL break his stealth soon as shroud ends. If SoS tactic fails, you are still doing ok though. Just remember to reset shield with EMP before shroud ****s that up. Your Explosive Probe + shield for "2nd round" will make you capable of winning even if you are way behind on HP. Sorry Tomorrow, cant really do much better and this aint much use. But i assure you. The SoS thing will work

As far as I have been able to see, it only works if shroud is already activated when i cast SoS. But yes, this WILL cause the ticks from electrified railgun to be resisted, but only till shroud ends, meaning he will waste his vanish and you will be guarenteed to win the fight. I never, ever ever ever, use Explosive Probe until after his shroud is out of the picture. Its simply to risky, and I know he wont be able to hold shroud forever. Soon as Entrench and Orbital goes up he pretty much have no choice.

Had a 3.7k heal the other day. Guess Shield probes are alot more powerfull than i thought

About the spec's for your turnament I think you are pretty straight on all of em. Vs. Assassins you will in my opinion need to be Engineer as you also seem to be thinking already. Deception assassins will simply do to much burst without the extra shield and their lowstrikes is a pain. Deflection also hurts MM alot more than it hurts us. A trick for Engineer snipers when fighting assassins is this. They will at some point during the duel use shroud. Usually when your orbital starts ticking. They will by the time shroud is about to end vanish. Trick is this. After shroud is activated if you fire SoS on em, the dots from electrified rail gun will still be applied. This will cause them to loose stealth soon as Shroud goes away and your dot's are no longer resisted. SoS needs to land after Shroud has been activivated though. Tested this with a mate and for me it works 100% of tiems if i get timing right. Otherwise keybind suprissive fire convieniently and you can get lucky/be good at find him pretty fast anyway.

Its most likely your shield probe absorbing an incoming hit for 2.5k. My highest heals as engineering have gone up to around 2.7k, which is apperently how much dmg is absorbed by each shield.

bah, i may have played a few games as rage i admit, since you have me in a corner. Can we move along

And there goes whatever goodwill I have gathered over the past months, just because I tried 1 game as rage... Its a cruel world

Very nice video man

Maybe the best Huttball player in the game if you ask me, which ofc nobody did, just saying it anyway Far as I know also the only player doing rated as Powertech/Vanguard tank, though I may have missed someone, which really goes some way to say how clever a player he is, cause nobody else seems to be able to make it work. Whasp

Yes, Marksman has an advantage, but unless we are dueling in a wide open space, its not gonna be a 100% assured victory im sure. I was stating classes that I cant touch, but I can touch a Marksman sniper. Only good Marksman sniper on ToFN i know is Roofer/Trigga, so maybe my self confidence is pretty boosted by the fact that he's the only guy that really playes that spec well. If you by chance is him then gg

Well ofc it will affect me as engineer aswell, it just takes a marauder/sentinel who aint just throwing Pacify out at a random time. Difference between dueling a good and a bad Marauder would be exactly that the good one will do all he can to use pacify when i use Series of Shots. Its not sure to win him the game, but it makes it alot damn closer. Pacify and Force Camoflage when used right are strong tools vs Snipers. In a Warzone snipers should always have the uper hand thtough. Atm so many smashers around it impossible to leg shot all of em though Seen from a 1 vs 1 perspective, me playing Engineer i would say the only real counter that ill loose to almost certainly every time is. 1: Lethality sniper/operative who can LoS 2: Madnes Sorc who can LoS 3: Basically any DoT class with selfheals and the patience to just take the needed time. Assassins for are interesting duels but really, i feel like its more me that has to make a mistake to loose than its the assassin who has to play perfectly.

Haha, yea the CC part is annoying aswell true. I dont like to compare 1000 dps from rage to 1000 dps from Lethality. Rage player will be doing 6k crit AoE's where as Lethality will be doing ALOT of small numbers on "hopefully" a min. of 5-7 enemies constantly. Its 2 completely different types of damage, even though the end result seems the same. Lethality is annoying for healers aswell, but lets be honest and say that the 6k crits have alot more effect on the game

Lethailty is great, it will put ALOT of pressure on enemy healers and Cull is really strong for burst and on a short CD. Im engineer but, but I would in fact love to play lethality for rated, since Engineer relies to much on explosive probe for burst (30 sec cd). Lethality and Marksman for me simply offers to little protection. To really get numbers rolling as Lethality you need to stay alive. For me, the tree itself has nothing to offer survivability wise. If i go rated as Lethality im gonna have to reapply my DoT's every time i die, and I get focussed quite abit, often taking same or more dmg than healers. If my team dominated most Rated games I think id spec Lethality for sure. If playing Marksman and Engineer you can always burst. You dont have to go through 3 GCD's to get of your main dmg ability, which for me is the main reason why I cant use lethality in rated on ToFN. I simply dont ever get the peace and quite to run around DoT'ing people up.

I agree with NoTomorrow. For 1 vs 1 Lethality is not nearly as strong as the 2 other specs. The added mobility might be true, but when moving around you are not using the strongest ability of your class, uninteruptable and cant be charged. So although Lethaility for sure has potential to get highest dps of the 3 specs, its still the worst for PvP in my opinion aswell. When talking Sniper vs Sorc, I think the current ability to respec in wz, makes the sorc tempting to bring. Being able to respec to healer in defense for voidstar or after 2 nodes have been capped in either novare or civil is very annoying for other team.

Played a Rated Voidstar a few days ago. Enemy team has 2 Rage Marauders and 1 rage Jug. When they where in offence their Jug Tank respecced to rage also. Needless to say, since we didnt have the composition to get 3 healers or 2 tanks, we just got instant killed - Likely would have no matter what. Hard to survive 4x 6k dmg Just wanted to throw in the mix, that they need to disable the ability to respec in wz

Guess its valid enough. Was in a WZ yesterday day and had 1 sorc teammate with 11k HP, a mix of green and blue lvl 40-49 items. enemy team scored a highest crit of 9812 on that guy if i remember correctly. In normals you just need some luck at finding poorly geared players. Im more interested in what the max possible I can achieve vs people at same gear lvl as my self though

As engineer when you are fully min maxed for power (PvP) your probes absorb close to 4k. Highest single heal i have ever had is 3.7k coming from shield probe. Naturally, since you can pop that baby twice in a fight, you become very tank like. In duels you can fight anybody except DoT specced classes who know how to kite and how a pillar close by I have played all 3 sniper specs and I like all of em, but when ever I go PvP, rated or just full premade for normals, i always spec engineering, since i so miss the survivability and extra stun. Somehow followthrough and 30% higher crits from marksman tree seems less important to me.

Fully min/maxed sniper in PvP for a long time now. Not sure about the exact number, but i cant remember the last time i got above 6k crit with ambush. In rated ambush crits top at around 5.2k for me.

Madness sorcs would in fact be one of the best classes to counter snipers. People I dont like dueling/getting 1 v 1 in wz on my sniper: 1: madness sorcs (DoT --> Kite ---> self heal as needed) 2: Healing Sorcs (DoT --> Kite ---> Self heal as needed and keep going for 10 min) Ok, this is hard in a wz ^^ 3: Lethality Operative (The same) The situation naturally require a huge pillar to be present aswell, but usually this is the case in wz, and people dum enough to duel snipers in the middle of the dune sea deserves to loose. The hard counter to snipers is people who can use the map layout to their advantage. Since the thread was about nerf's to my beloved class, I would say that if anything, the 20 sec duration of entrench could be discussed. taking away any of our snares and stuns will however destroy the class in my humble opinion.

It sends you to spawn, enabling you to get very fast from grass to snow in civil, or make it back to prevent the 2nd doors from being capped in Voidstar if your team is being slowed. And yes, its a cheap tactic that PvP'ers shouldt even concider an option, so glad we apperently all agree