How exactly does the CSM debacle demonstrate a lack of understanding of the player base? It demonstrated a lot things, but that's the first I've seen *that* accusation. In know you're still hurting over this, but not *every* bad decision BW makes can be related to the CSM.

Also: Artifice (Lightsaber Hilts) and Armstech (Blaster Barrels) use 1x Signal Disruptor.

I'm just talking about the OP's initial complaint. If you started 5.0 ready to go -- plenty of chars with gatherers at 550 who have to start with 2x moderate missions (regardless of number of comps available), hop on your main, and start doing the new story, your main's ability to gather while playing is seriously nerfed from prior expansions. 1) No nodes in new areas, and few mobs are harvestable 2) Playing some KotFE chapters on new veteran modes (or just gives you two small areas which (on live servers) are going to be pretty full at first, and instead of new nodes, you get old nodes with a chance to be Grade 10, and lots of players skipping the Grade 9s (which will stay Grade 9 until somebody finally harvests it and it has a chance to go to Grade 10). 3) It can actually be annoying to deal with returning companions (and resending) while playing. I rarely send out companions on the character I'm playing until the end of the session. I think it's fair to call that a "nightmare", at least for people just starting the expansion at/near release (when servers will be most populated). It's not by any means insurmountable -- as you and others have mentioned, crew skills are the most efficient way to get Grade 10s regardless of the availability of nodes. And adding the new mats to the vendor at start would give people with stored JJ to have an overwhelming advantage, so I don't see that as a realistic option. I'm just saying I agree with the OP's proposition that it sucks..

Re-reading the OP, I think we're getting a bit off topic. Yes, at launch new/top tier mats are in high demand with low supply. Yes, it's easier to run missions than manually gather. Those truths aside, let's look at swtor's history: 1.x) -- end game planet (Ilum) had grade 6 nodes, and I believe Corellia had some as well. 2.x) -- Makeb had a mixture of Grade 6 and 7 mats; CZ-198 and Oricon add more Grade 7, but many months after release. 3.x) -- Rishi had Grade 8 mats and Yavin was drowning in them. 4.x) -- Launched still using Grade 8 mats, Grade 9 added mid-expansion, special vendor, Zakuul has Grade 9, as Darvanis (released months later) did. 5.x) -- No new planets with mats, no new nodes -- 4.x Grade 9 nodes now spawn as Grade 9/10. So 5.x is actually noticeably different (and stingier) than before. Given that many people are [likely] playing through the new expansion, it's not just a matter of farming mats, it's that they are less available during play, since most KotFE/KotET chapters occur in places without *any* nodes. This wasn't an issue in 4.x, since mats started at Grade 8 (available on Rishi/Yavin) and the conversion to Grade 9 was offset by the special vendor. Add to this fact that few mobs can be harvested in 5.x (not sure whether this is a bug or by design), It's not really unreasonable to complain about the shortage of Grade 10 nodes, at least compared to how things were handled previously. IMO, this isn't an intentional change, it's just that BW cornered themselves with the chapter formats (and choice of locations). Neither the Zakuul Swamps nor Darvanis are of the scope of Makeb, Oricon, Rishi, or Yavin. Heck, even CZ-198 was (or at least felt) bigger, although I recall it having only a few of each node. The lack of a Daily endgame area (such as Ilum, Makeb, or Yavin) doesn't help.

I'd argue that the fact that it shipped *at launch* with a recycle button indicates that they knew how much the RNG would suck. On the other hand, I can see some merit in looking at the bright side...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2Wx230gYJw

It doesn't really start a quest, it adds a one-time-use Bounty or Wealthy mission to the bottom of the mission list. You just use it like any other crew skill mission.

It's not just that your sample is small, it's that represents only your play style (experience, crafter distribution, server, etc.). You can't just compare sales results, especially when (unless you are doing some really good tracking) you are reporting gross and not net. At best (not that that's bad), you show that every skill can be highly profitable. I base my ratings on more neutral PPM (profit-per-mat) calculations, and I will sell mats when it is more profitable to do so, so I compare the PPM against the retail sale value of the mats as well. My overall PPM calculation is based on how much more I make by actually crafting an item instead of just selling the mats. Augments may sell off the shelves, but they take 2x Slicing purples, and Armorings, Barrels, Hilts, Mods, and Enhancements take only 1. From what I've seen on Harbinger, Augments aren't going at 2x the ABH/Mod/Enh prices, so your profits from those items are at diminishing returns (and require more effort) compared to the other items.

1) Artifice has been #1 since 2.x. Color crystals going to +41 is actually the least important thing for Artifice (when I'm slow, crystals are the first thing I stop making). 3.x made Artifice godlike because you could craft end game relics which weren't available on crystal vendors. And TBH, dyes are the #1 money maker, and they keep adding new dyes. Unlike anything else, dyes of all Artifice levels are usable by all characters, which means that every new expansion just adds more to the library. 2) Cybertech is still my #2, but that's because I value money > volume (space ship parts sell well, earpieces can't be moved with legacy transfer, and you also get BiS mods and enhancements). 3-4-5 All the augment-making skills. Synthweaving gets dps armor and augments, so they sell faster, but usually at lower profits than the other skills; armstech gets both barrels (dps and tank) and dps mods, so probably the weakest; armormech gets tank gear which doesn't sell as much but makes a higher profit per unit. So it really depends on which you want for personal use and how much volume you want to sell. 6 Bio -- you get implants and consumables (stims, medpacks, and adrenals); this probably would do better, except that Bio used to have resuables, so there a *lot* more Bio crafters than necessary; combined with being the only craft to use bioanalysis / diplomacy mats, these products tend to be in high supply (thus low demand, and low price). At the end of the day, with the removal of Biochem reusables, there were no "must have" skills, and every skill has a profitable selection of things to make/sell. Depending on your server or crafting style, any of these should be profitable. The best, of course, is to have one of each.

That was actually the point Khevar and I were making -- we were rejecting somebody else's argument that the tokens make the system pay-to-win. [snip] I agree that it isn't very strong p2w, (compared to what I've seen reported for Asian grindfests), but it is strong enough for me to call it p2w and be uncomfortable with it. In fact, rereading the proposed suggestions, if BW puts valor restrictions on PVP players, that would make the Valor Boosts uncomfortably (for me) p2w. Part of what makes it bad (IMO) is that only subs can get CXP/Crates, so it's not like offering F2P/Preferred a'la carte pricing, it's flat out a way to gouge more $ from subs.

CXP boosts are an implicit part of his argument because he was talking about Command Crates and CXP Boosts directly affect Command Crate acquisition. His not mentioning CXP Boosts doesn't make them not part of the discussion. Ignoring facts doesn't mean that it's not fair for other people to bring them up. No matter how much skill or time you put in, BW will sell you (for cash) the ability the get more Command Crates than somebody playing the exact same way who doesn't pay. It doesn't matter how many other ways there are to get the Boosts, BW is effectively selling end game gear. Pay. To. Win. That doesn't mean that it's particularly *strong* p2w, and I'm not saying people shouldn't play this game because of it, but there's a difference between denying something exists and debating what impact its existence has.

Your a Sorc, wasn't she your master in Chapter 1?

CXP Boosts were implicitly a part of his argument (since they are part of the 5.0 release scheme) whether he mentioned it explicitly or not. His full argument now becomes: a) Despite being able to pay $ for a 25% increase in the number of RNG crates you get, RNG loot crates are not pay to win. b) Allowing people to buy gear with a combination of tokens obtained solely through play and Box Tops obtained from play and pay means that the new tokens are what makes this system pay-to-win.

That's not entirely true...I haven't opened many crates yet, so I don't have a lot data points for my 5.0 gear sheet, yet, but from what I have observed, modded 228 stat gear for dps/healer is Low Endurance Armoring, A (Medium Endurance) Mod, and Low Endurance Enhancement. So the Armorings and Enhancements are equivalent to BiS crafted 228 gear (the difference being that purple crafted 228s are usable at level 68 while the green ones require level 70). Unfortunately, the static stat 228 green gear will be hard coded at LAL, so worse than crafted BiS 228 gear (LUL).

Gear will require tokens obtained through gameplay *and* Command Crate Box Tops (or whatever they call them), and you can pay to get 25% more Box Tops, so that element of P2W is still present. *How* much of an issue it is will depend on how many Box Tops are required, but IMO, any number > 0 is P2W.

Yes, MK-3 Relics are purple (as are Earpieces, and I assume all MK-3 gear). They are item level 230. I don't have any on an Artificer, so I can't check whether they show as RE'able.

What is dead may never die, but rises again harder and stronger

This is only true if your time is worth nothing. However, if that is true, it shouldn't matter how long you wait for nodes to respawn.

So you've seen the rough draft of my N-Day speech...http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9160160&postcount=15 I was hoping to get the original voice actor, but he has passed away.

I did play ranked...back when it was 8v8. All PVP requires players to be able to fight other players at some point, the difference between objective-based (8v8) and death-match-only (4v4) is that objective-based requires *more* than just the ability to death-match. BTW, I'm not a *great* player, and the main reason I don't do 4x4 ranked is because I can't focus on practicing 4x4s in unranked. My complaint about 4v4 ranked is that it is essentially putting the horse in front of the cart.

TBF, there were only five days of tears on my side, so they're pretty much all dried up now...your side has been making new ones for the last 700 or so days That said, I don't see us as actually being on different sides of a fence as much as playing a game of tennis...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGEYFE7e_R8 (And if you define your "side" as wishing BW could resurrect the machine in a way that would be fun, give people reasons to visit other players' strongholds, and not be game-breaking, than we *are* on the same side. I'm not *happy* that BW did the nerf it did, I just more sympathetic as to the *why*.)

Statement: The customer is always right. Question: Which one?

I don't know, I don't see a lot of tears on my side of the fence...usually have to go to your side to find them

BW did not say that it was "working as intended", they said that it wasn't bugged, that it wasn't an exploit to use it, and they would look at the Jawa Junk drop rate. Their stated intent was to provide a fun experience, based on feedback from the nightlife event. That is from the first post in this thread. There was never an intent to have this replace gathering/mission skills for mats or packs for certs. The fact that it functioned to do those to things should have put people on notice that it wasn't going to last. IMO, everybody knew it was broken. There's a difference between a reason and an excuse. People used BW statements as an *excuse*, not a *reason*, to believe what they wanted to believe instead of what they could actually see. As you noted in another thread recently, devs can't be expected to note *every* change. I concur that the number of JJ complaints >> cert complaints, so in a way it makes sense that BW called out the change that would affect the largest part of the controversy. Furthermore, changing one drop rate implies adjusting others (since you need the sum of probabilities to equal one), so leaving out the changes to the "less controversial" items (green/blue JJ, certs) as well as necessary changes to compensate for the lowered rates is understandable. This is a rather long thread, and almost two years old, so I apologize if I had you incorrectly grouped with the "birthers". If the CSM could talk, here's what it would say to the devs:

Surprising upset in RNG elections -- while BW pollsters predicted RNG would win by a landslide, wallet-belt voters have delivered an obvious-in-hindsight victory to non-random gearing.