You keep making out of context arguments like this and you wont get anywhere. Yes just looking at this, one would think that maybe you are right, and that the difference between this spec and a full AP as far as PFT is concerned is just 500damage. But for the rest of us, who are looking the entire picture, are just smiling at that. Because of the heat management you will NEVER charge PFT as fast as a full AP. Now add IMMOLATE that can crit for over 4k, followed by a guaranteed FREE RP, and the difference becomes way more than just 500damage. Also please refrain from saying that you have heat under control, because what you are really saying is that you are holding back. It is not like you find a secret rotation of heat venting. There is no other way to translate that. Because I could run a PT with a 0/0/0 spec and still have heat under control by just spamming Rapid Shots.

I already explained it in details, but maybe you missed it so I will repeat. PPA is so far ahead of your spec that it is not even a comparison. Yes those 3 points (but technically 5) make or break the spec. My argument is if you want a hybrid, PPA is a must because it allows you for more burst, more heat venting, and maximize the Charged Gauntlets. Your argument is that you will do more damage on the abilities you use MOST. Well you are wrong, because the chances that your FB/FP will hit harder are about 25%. It is not like EVERY FB/RP will hit harder. Also with more heat issues, you will throw LESS FB/RP. No, RS does not crit for 3k in the Maverick, or at least not in the gear I had way back when I started the Maverick spec. It critted for 3400-3900 depending on the opponent's expertise. You keep trying to make a point that I am opting for RS and doing away with FB. In the Maverick, you will pretty much throw just as many FBs, I guarantee it, mainly because I will use far less rapid shots. In fact, as I got better playing with the Maverick (which is playing it for more than an hour), I rarely ever used Rapid Shot. Your spec is about Finesse and Control as opposed to the Maverick? LOL, can you explain that? because I thought that we already agreed that the ONLY difference is really PPA vs Prototype Weapon System. Also, there is NOTHING about a PT that's finesse and control. Even as an AP, it is still in your face dps. You're trying to make this class something that it isnt. You shut down a healer with your DPS? ok, where is the advantage here over ANY other dps. You are making the healer focus heals on themselves instead of others. Well congratulations, that means he's also shutting you down because you will focus your dps on them rather than eliminate and move on to the next target. I dont know of ANY dps class, played decently, that cant keep pressure on a healer. A full AP with enhanced Quell + higher dps/burst will kill a healer. A full Pyro with higher dps/burst will kill a healer. Yet you feel that a spec that can only put "pressure" on a healer is superior. PPA is the bread and butter of the Pyro tree, and you are comparing it to Prototype Weapon System. PPA+Charged gauntlets will make your RS amount to AT LEAST 25% of your total damage. Without it, your RS will contribute to 8-10% of your damage at best. Show us the math of how Prototype Weapon Systems can make up that difference + the difference in dps loss due to less heat venting, and I will agree with you that those 3 points wont make a difference. But wait, you're not done yet. Then show us that those 3 points going into AP for a 0/31/10 build are worse than IM + SuperHeated Rail. My logic says, and I am betting on it, that IMMOLATE alone will be better than IM+Superheated Rail. THAT'S how you can show us that this spec, whether in your hands or played by someone else, is viable. At least on the Maverick's thread, there was some math done, and even done there were people that didnt agree, but never once did I claim that it was superior to full Pyro or full AP. It is a fun spec, that IS viable, and gives you the most bang as far as an AP/Pyro hybrid is concerned.

Energy Rebounder. You can potentially reduce the cooldown of Energy Shield from 2min to about 40sec. You can also wear 2 pieces supercomando set (PvE) and 2 pieces Combat Medic set (PvP) and increase the duration of Energy shield to 18sec. So 18sec Energy Shield with about a 40sec cooldown. Pretty awesome, and that's what I am currently using.

LOL. 90% of what I do in a WZ on my PT is second nature to me. Everything I do is out of habit, and doesnt require much strategizing and thought process at this point. I already explained to you what I do, and it IS as simple as I have explained it. You just dont accept it because 1) you havent been playing your PT for a long time. 2) Running a spec that requires more effort and a lot of luck to accomplish the same thing, and still falling short. Why do you even suggest that how I deal with a Marauder is for some reason way different from how YOU deal with one? It is not like your spec gives you a TOTALLY different arsenal or abilities that are foreign to a Pyro's or a full AP. Maybe I do the same exact thing against a marauder with full CDs, but I will still do it better and faster than you, not because I am a better player, but because as a pyro spec I lack nothing of real value that your spec brings, and gain a lot more survivability, burst, dps, heat management. I can not believe it is taking that many pages to argue the same thing. And the reason I keep mentioning "Marauder" is because YOU brought it up when you said Pyro has less of a win ratio vs this spec. I am sorry, but that is utter and complete nonsense. The question should NEVER be how a full Pyro or a full AP or even a full ST deals with a Marauder with full CDs. The question IS, how does YOUR spec, deal with not just one marauder but then continues to fight right after. That is why duels means ABSOLUTELY nothing, and you learn ABSOLUTELY nothing from them, because duels dont account for ANY of the variables that occur in WZs. All that duels accomplish is create unfounded QQing on the forums. In a WZ you dont get free heat venting, count down before your start fighting someone, or a recharge after every fight, or the "wow wow, hold on a sec, my cooldowns arent ready yet" option. That is why the heat issue of this spec, is probably the biggest FAIL of it. You may succeed at taking out someone, but the spec will never have the stamina to pump out non-stop dps for 2min straight fighting in the middle node of civil war, or for 3min without a chance to breath at the door of Voidstar. The point that you keep dodging and that TheOpf and I have been asking you, how does this spec give you ANY advantage over a full Pyro or AP. Your spec gains what? the utilities of an AP? Fine, how is it better than a Full AP? you say because you have CGC and its snare? Fine, we asked then why not go Full AP with CGC? Obviously IM and Superheated Rail are no where NEAR the effectiveness of Immolate and Stabilized Armor, especially against a marauder. Saying that you can get a good feel of different specs, after you had a character on the shelf for quite some time and after a major update, in ONE night, is all I really needed to hear. Hec even if you have been playing a PT from day one, you cant possibly get an accurate feel for a spec in a couple of WZ games.

LOL, ok keep your "secret" spec to yourself. But dont expect us to even consider anything you say seriously if you do not want to share the spec, prove your claims, or back up any of your statements. What did you expect? That you can get on the forum and share a thread with people that have been playing the AC since beta or launch and not receive any criticism on some off the wall crazy idea? It's not like there are still "hidden" gems to be found in the 3 trees. People whose main is a PT and have been playing it for a long time, pretty much know where every single talent is, on which tree, and how it can be used in synergy with other talents. What is left, is usually just some minor playstyle preferences. Just because you post something here, doesnt mean anything. Every single one of us, new player, vet., myself included even, have posted things in this forum that others didnt agree with or criticized. We still argue our points instead of saying " I'm not sharing where I got my facts, since you guys dont agree with me! OR that I worked too hard for it!"

Great point. So I will submit to you. Marauders easily kill Pyro in duels, which obviously amounts to what, 1% of the PvP experience? ok For the rest of us that PvP in WZs, you're completely wrong. Using your logic, one should say that an Operative Healer is 10x better than a Marauder in PvE because they can solo Heroic4. I also think that even that happens more often than duels. lol Good thing the devs are not balancing classes based on 1v1 duels. Just one more thing, does going to capture a node solo vs 1 or 2 people counts as Duels? How about when they come back to try to take it and I am expecting them? or when someone attacks me and I turn around and target them? Does it have to be a 5 second countdown in a 10m radius to qualify as a duel? just wondering since I am inexperienced with that aspect of PvP.

It has everything to do with your spec. Stop talking about good/bad players. You're the one who is hung up on that. I am talking purely mechanics, and you're arguing with hypothetical scenarios. From my perspective, being a 31Pyro, I have the following: - Much higher bursts, especially as an opener, but also as a finisher if a fight lasts 15sec+ - Higher crit - RS every 6sec - Higher dot dmg at 30% and below - 3x longer damage mitigation due to 18sec shield + Energy rebounder. - 4% mitigation from (Combust) - 4% higher damage on Fire Attacks (2/3 Intimidation) - 9% more damage on RP, RS, Unload, Rapid Shot. - Higher IM damage. (not that it matters, but you seem to think so and have it talented) - Higher surge on IM, CGC, RS - Much better Heat venting allowing for more ability spam instead of holding back or using Rapid shot. Your Spec has: - HO - FT that does up to 46% more when stacked 5x - Retractable Blade - 2% mitigation from (Power Armor) - 30% chance to get a free Rocket Punch - Higher chance for a crit RS, at best every 15sec. - 30% higher Surge on FB and RP (so your FBs and RPs are doing about 10-15% more damage 1 out of 4 times, assuming a 25% base crit chance) - 70% snare every 10sec or so, at best every 8sec. (almost useless on a marauder since he's in your face anyways) - 2sec reduced CD on Quell (useless on a marauder) - Reduced Cooldown on Grapple and FT (I guess maybe slightly useful if you actually manage 2 fully stacked PFTs in one fight against a marauder without over heating) Tell us again, how you found full 31Pyro lacking or having less of a win ratio than your spec? because not even someone who hasnt played the PT class would be confused just looking at these facts.

Clearly you dont know how to play a Pyro then. I am not trying to insult you. It's just that I refuse to believe I am THAT awesome in PvP and every single Marauder/Sent on my server sucks; especially that there is 1 PT for every 10 marauders in PvP. Bring or find any Maurader/Sent on Begeren Colony and have them find "Galambo" in WZs and we'll see how "easily" they can take down a decent Pyro.

1) You're really not paying attention to what I am posting. I have an 18sec Energy Shield, pretty much every 40some sec. 2) 45% damage reduction, sure...every what? 3minutes, for 12sec right? So it's basically just cloak of pain and that's on a 1min CD. 3) Undying Rage? they will only use it when they are really low or basically they are just committing suicide. As a pyro, there is always a good chance that I will burst through their last 20% health before they even think about using it. And if they manage to pop it, stun wastes 4sec out of the 5, making it useless at this point. They break stun? snares buys me the 5 sec I need anyways. 3) How do I take down a marauder to 50% while I am still at 75%? simple, CDs, Our opening rotation does more burst than a marauder's. A delayed TD hitting at the same time of a crit RS, will take pretty much anyone down to 50% before they even realize who is hitting them. Also because outside of defensive CDs, Mauraders are about 10% squishier than Heavy. Burst in PvP is king, not sustained damage. That is why YOU not I, are having more of an issue with Marauders. You cant convince me that a spec that does much less burst, less dot dmg, have less crit, and have much worse heat management will do better than a full pyro against a dps class like a marauder because you have HO, and your FB/RP will do slightly more damage ONLY when they crit. If you prolong the fight with them, or any other class for that matter, there is a much bigger chance that you will loose; a chance that their CD is back up, a chance a healer will come, a chance someone else will join and pummel you.

Two things happen when I go against a marauder, equally skilled/geared, and I dont care about dueling since to me that isnt considered a representation of actual game PvP. I am also not on a wPvP server, so these 1v1 scenarios out in tatooine or whatnot are also out for me. My experience is strictly WZs. 1) I get a nice opening burst ( Pop relic/adrenal/EF IM>RS>TSO>TD>FB>RS..etc...) and they had already wasted their CDs before engaging. They are DEAD and probably thinking I am hacking OR now considering rolling a PT after they got their FOTM to 50. lol 2) The second scenario is just a straight out brawl, where we see and target each other at full health and CDs available. I still take him to about 50% with the opener while at worst I'm at 75%. Now the tide changes, and I am going down faster than he is. I get to 40% and he's at 25% and pops his defensive CDs, which I saved my carbon and stun for, making him watch his defensive CDs counting down and unable to do much during most of the duration. By that time TD is up again and ready to unload another burst on him. How is it easy for a maurader to counter a PT if they know what to look for? look for what? all our abilities are instant cast, at least 60% of our damage output is elemental. We do just as much damage as they do in PvE, so in theory we have the same sustained/burst dps potential. In fact, I usually have a tougher time with equally skilled/gear Tanksins than marauders. I spent close to 40played hours on this character. At least 50% of my PvP time is Solo queue. I PvPed in Tank/AP/Parakeet/IF/Maverick/Pyro variations, never for less than 3-4 days with one spec. You cant convince me that you can get an accurate feel of 3-4 different specs all in one night of PvP. Hec, you cant get a grasp of even 1 spec if you just try it for a night. I am sorry you wasted hundreds of thousands for no reason like that. A PT is a beast after you spend alot of time gearing and tweaking and knowing how to maximize your advantages and minimize your disadvantages. That is why I run with 2pc Combat Med set + 2pc PvE Super Commando. That with Energy Rebounder gives me an 18sec Energy Shield that's available to me almost 50% of the time in a WZ, and I pretty much have it available all the time when I go against a maurader or a Tanksin. No way in hell is a marauder taking me down through my 25% damage mitigation, Kolto, medpack, WZ adrenal, carbon, stun, and snares. I have all 4 class buffs on me 100% of the time. All these thing together make a huge difference. Obviously I am having a completely different experience in PvP, regardless of the spec, than the one you are getting.

I am really not sure what you are doing wrong, but these findings you experienced in your tests are completely off from where I am coming from. Just the fact that you concluded a 31 Pyro win ratio is way below your spec and/or Maverick is the perfect example that you are missing on some major mechanics of the AC. I myself, currently running as a pyro, around 1200 expertise, no 15% crit bonus to either RS or RP, and I SMOKE Marauders 9 out of 10 times. I dont see how in the world you can take down a well played/geared marauder spamming Flame Burst with a spec that has 0 heat management mechanism. In other words, you will NEVER be able to spam Flame Burst in any fight and not run into heat issues before you are dead. Also to say that you ran into heat issues using the Maverick, which has better heat management than a 31 Pyro, clearly shows again that you were doing something wrong. I am not going to keep arguing with you over this, since it was never my intention from the beginning. It is quite clear that you are dead set on what you are doing, and no amount of testing or advice will change that.

It's one of the highest end game dps class. We are right up there with Marauders in dps. If you want to level as dps, go Pyro. Once you are 40+, you can try AP and see which of the 2 trees appeals more to you.

Oh yea, I never really NOT taken Sweltering Heat. Cardio is such a waste of points though. I would honestly go with 4/6/31 while skipping Hot Iron. Loose Cardio and take Sweltering Heat, GAJ, Energy Rebounder. Thermal Detonator will more than make up for Hot Iron, both in sustained and burst. Just make sure it is always part of your rotation.

^^ and that's complete garbage of course.

- Remove the 3 points in Integrated Cardio Package, and add 1 more to GAJ and 2/2 Energy Rebounder. - Remove the 2 points in Steely Resolve and add 2/2 Hot Iron. This spec would be for PvE ONLY.

Well it definitely wont have the big spikes of Pyro. What it brings is consistent pressure through a lot of crit RS, FB/CGC snares, and practically all the utilities of AP (which I think is what you are mainly looking for in the hybrid).

I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from, and that is why I proposed the Maverick. I enjoyed it very much when I ran it. That is why I am telling to take a closer look and do some testing with it. You will see that it does better burst and sustained damage than this spec. Try it on a dummy, and you will see that PPA outweighs the surge on Prototype Weapon System. Tweak it for PFT as well since you enjoy it that much.

As a pyro, there are countless times where I used RS at range without IM. Unload can trigger RS (indirectly through CGC), pretty much any other player on your team will trigger your RS for you. But the question is, how often are you going toe to toe with someone at range? I know from my experience, hardly ever. With Stun, grapple, HO, RB why would a PT fight at range. Plus even in the situation where you are at range, 1 IM + 1 RS will hardly take down someone. Again, as an AP, if I am running behind a train on my ball carrier, I am not thinking "oh let me snare them with PFT to give my ball carrier a chance". I am thinking "Oh! 3-4 people in front of me! BBQ time!". It certainly NOT the snare that is benefiting your already snared/rooted/CCd/DoTd ball carrier, but the chance that your PFT is going to take out 1 or 2 of them. Yes of course the snare of a 5x stacked PFT may at some point produce the effect you are referring to in a rare scenario, but in no way will it be often enough to base a spec on it.

I think you're missing the point of the snare bonus of PFT. It is not that you get an AOE snare so you can "snare" people. The snare is there so that you can maximize FT. So you shouldnt look at PFT as a "snare" ability, it is an AOE frontal, period. Especially that the snare will ONLY happen on a fully stacked PFT, which is a minimum of 5 GCDs. That said, with this spec, your FT is doing about 15-20% less damage than a full AP. Second, I already said that you can tweak the Maverick to also have PFT, but because of the above mentioned damage loss, and because I extensively tested it and parsed it on a dummy, I found that in a spec other than full AP, PFT looses its luster, and it certainly did NOT add but in fact lowered the overall sustained dps when it was part of the rotation. PPA with Maverick makes RS amount to about 25% of your total damage output. Without PPA, RS would probably amount to 8-10% of your total damage at BEST. There is no way with your spec that Prototype Weapon System's 30% surge to FB and RP can make up for that 15% damage loss of PPA, not to mention the damage loss from the higher heat produced with this spec.

20k unbuffed is perfectly fine for any content. With buffs, stims, and more BlackHole/Augmented pieces, you should easily be at 24k

The shield tree is FULL tank spec. As a Shieldtech, you are arguable the best PvE tank in the game because we take the least spike damage due to our high shield/absorb rating. In DPS specs, PTs are currently on the top of the food chain, right up there with Marauder dps, especially as a Pyro spec. So you really cant go wrong, whether you end up tanking or taking on a DPS role.

What is so bad about about 3.5k RS? And how is FB accounting for more damage? You will still be using FB, only when you're not you will be using RS with a crit chance of at least double that of a full pyro spec. Because with Charged Gauntlets and making sure you include RP and RB in the rotation, it is not a matter of "IF" you crit, because you will pretty much constantly do so. Yes an AP/Pyro hybrid wont do the burst potential of a pyro, but neither will this at all. But with these hybrids, the point is you are sacrificing some dps/burst of Pyro, for the utilities of AP, while maintaining the same playstyle of a pyro. Because if it was about getting the most dps possible while having the AP utilities, then you might as well go full AP. In other words, what is the advantage of this spec? You definitely will not have higher burst than an AP. And no, IM is not an advantage at all. Even as a Pyro, you rarely use it. The heat and damage output of IM, gives it very limited use. If it is range you want, you might as well just use Unload or even rapid shots. In the end, it just leaves us with CGC and the snare. If that is the case, I would go deep AP 0/31/10. And yes, heat management IS an issue. Just because you have it under control, does not mean you dont have a heat issue. It just means you learned to maintain low heat by holding back on your dps. With the spec I am suggesting, you will rarely even use Rapid Shots, because of PPA, Free RPs and GAJ. With regards to PFT, I dont see how you are regularly hitting 8k on someone without HEGC/Intimidation/Steely Resolve. Maybe you are regularly coming across people without any expertise. But in the end, if you enjoy it, then all power to you.

The Maverick is alot more viable. No reason to go that high up in the Pyro tree without going forward to PPA. The Maverick gives a lot more burst dps, and at the same time much better heat management which you will be in dire need of with a spec like this. You can move some points around to also get PFT, but I personally dont think it is worth it unless you are a FULL AP. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=406555

Usually in combat tech gear, you have a nice longer carbonize, then you got the reduced CD stun, and on top of that the countless times you are attacking 1, 2 or 3 people that are not even targeting you, I really dont see or experience major interrupt issues when I use FT or DFA.

Dude, be careful with what you post. You almost had half the PT community delete their account with that false alarm. lol