When a move is so critical you hurt your RWZ team by not having it in your arsenal... it needs to be looked at. A CD would "ruin" it in some respects because you should be able to use it to get away from danger (so at least 2 to 3 times b2b). I'm not sure what the right fix will be... perhaps linking it to UH/TA instead of energy so you can use it 4 ~ 5 times b2b instead of 7 ~ 8 times b2b. Still allowing them to have 5 rolls b2b doesn't solve the problem of them being able to get to a door 2x as fast as a deception assasin w/prediiton buff, so maybe that isn't the right answer either. But one move shouldn't be so gamebreaking in comparison to other moves... imagine if shadow/assassin could use their 51 power without losing the hutball and with no cd.

If this is true then it is super valuable thanks! It also means the only stat worth worrying about under 800 rating is surge which seems to get harsh right around 300 or so. This, of course, doesn't make knowing exactly what stat will give you the most benefit at any given time easy. It does however give us some facts to work with. Can anyone verify this chart?

I'd like to refer you to the Elder Game Guide: http://www.swtor.com/info/eldergame Gaurdian/Juggs are listed as a "Tank Damage" class while the other tank classes are simply listed as "Tank" class. Apparently this class being able to mitigate like a tank and put out high dps at the same time is intentional. So the question isn't IF this one tree is special it is WHY does this one tree get to be special?

All Bioware bashing aside, I'd like to refer you to the Elder Game Guide: http://www.swtor.com/info/eldergame Gaurdian/Juggs are listed as a "Tank Damage" class while the other tank classes are simply listed as "Tank". So apparently this setup is intentional. So the question isn't IF this one tree is special it is WHY does this one tree get to be special?

The only solution is to dampen the effect of bolster. PVP gear should not be viable end-game PVE gear. Likewise, no Full set of PVE gear should be better than a full set of top PVP gear for PVP. They are pretty close on this as it is but they need to make bolster give 70-80% of the expertise you would get from full PVP gear... not 95% of the expertise you would get from full PVP gear. At 95%, the increased stats of PVE gear make for a (maybe) "better" set of PVP gear. As one poster said... this shouldn't be so close as to be debatable.

I just came back a few days ago and picked this up yesterday (due to hitting 51). After setting it up a few times in the first few pvp games and doing nothing with it, I did manage to use it to stop a bomb from being planted in voidstar that I may have otherwise not been able to get to because of opposition that had setup to defend the planter. I don't think it's a gamebreaking power but I can see where it comes in handy. A way to tell you are out of range would be awesome.

Totally, they also come around every year and roll on up to your house and take your cash. Girl Scouts number in the millions (about 3.3 million to be exact) and are not to be trifled with! How many UFC fighters are there a few dozen? 3.3 million of those mean little girls vs. 30 UFC fighters... I know where my money is gunna be.

Although I would like some visual way of indicating that I'm out of range, one other simple way to cover both requests would be that if you are not in range the power would simply show the deployment graphic for placement. In range = triggers Out of range (which you would be if there weren't one deployed) = deployment graphic

Dude your sig finally made sense to me... I always wondered why there was a blank between the repub symbols and the words "WHITE NOISE" between the emp ones. Thanks for always posting in a helpful and respectful way. Cheers!

Don't forget discharge. A discharge, wither opening should hold em. I wouldn't ever lacerate unless you are trying to hold a huge group in a totally aoe burn scenario. Also, don't worry about common mobs, let dps clean those up. It isn't worth letting an uncommon or elite get loose. Stunning the primary target can help you slow a situation down as well to lay some agro on a second target for a few seconds before switching back to the primary target.

Excellent thanks for the responses. I did finally find it in the expansion patch notes as well.

Just jumping back in after another four month break. Glad to see the community is still alive and kickin'. Soooo... when I left shield and absorb were nearly worthless in PVP, but now all of the recommendations for PVP tanks seem include it. I could just live with the crowd sourcing, but I would love to know why... what's changed about shielding that makes it worthy? p.s. Dip n KBN, glad to see the two of you still vigorously, and cordially, rocking the math and giving the tanking community a real edge.

This ^ I think that 37.5% of the team being geared/capable/on-comm can turn almost any hutball match around. The people that were already in it and stayed most likely continued to be part of the 62.5%.

While I don't agree with your attitude, I think your position on people "forcing" PVP on PVE players has some merit. If your going to put a gank squad together to roam a PVE content area and try to "force" people into flagging by exploiting aoe, your lame. Put some big boy pants on and come to a PVP server, where there is no such thing as "unflagged". (Open up server transfer again plx BW k thx) On POT5 this event is awesome. The first 48hours saw a some carebear activity but since then it has been mostly open war. Every node, every quest, every world boss, in every instance, at anytime could become a battlefield. And that's the way a PVP server should be.

It's true, I only proc off of Assasinates. But what use is an auto-crit shock when your out of force? And if you only thrash once in a while (rather than twice every cycle which is nearly force-exaustive in 31/0/10) then you only get the proc once in a great while... not a huge sacrifice.

So I'm one of those guys that always likes to do things my own way. Fully expecting that not everyone will like my play style, I hereby open myself to critique. Here is the build I use, which I call "Thrashless Full Darkness" I run the standard Wither/Shock to 3 stacks for a HD cast. Instead of filling it with Thrash I find in pvp that I have a lot of chances to Maul (and Maul again, and Maul some moar), Assasinate and Discharge. I use the 2 set tank bonus and apply spike to peoples' faces liberally. Along with OCSing, stiming, pulling, taunting, stunning, and overloading I don't find myself filling with SS very often and usually have enough force for whatever comes next (something I felt I was lacking trying to consistently fill with thrash). I usually stay in my tank roll and gaurd things like healers and nodes. In a fight I try to make sure that the discharge debuff, taunt and wither are up on as many as possible. I run in dps gear with a little defense (since I'm itemized to 27% crit 75% surge the rest power). I'm comfortable soloing most people when it's a clean fight and can usually take out 1 1/2 in a 1v2. My dps seems to be on par with other tank/tank-hybrids. Thoughts/Suggestions?

I'm one of the people that left 1.2 - 1.3...ish and came back when they launched f2p. One of the first things I started hearing about was how so many f2p were rolling imp. I rolled a pub because hey... starting again is a good time to start again and I'd prefer to have a 50 on each side before anything else. A lot of my guildmates began leveling pubs as a reaction to all the imp f2p. I think the f2p dynamic IS responsible for this recent change of dynamic and it is compounded by both the influx of f2p imps, and the reaction of the sub community to it. I'm not BW and so I don't have any real facts but I would not be suprised to see that f2p noobs are on the increase for imp while many competent imps have moved to pub... and it is all flushing out now a few months after f2p launch.

For DPS stats: Why not 30% crit? Why take any accuracy?

^^ This. I did a lot of research waiting for release and as long as we're self-agrandizing here I must say I did a awesome job at picking my 1st 50.

Is this why other MMOs simply gave up on allowing hybrid specs? Much of the OP crying comes from hybrid (Dark/Mad, Bubble Stun, Smash). I like the opportunity to put a flexible twist on specs but give a community enough time and they WILL find the "best" way to do it to give your AC an edge, and then it will be overplayed into oblivion. Just because the assassin/shadow AC's hybrid nitch includes a heavy tank setup doesn't mean this hybrid spec needs to be matched against other AC tank specs and considered OP. Because... it is NOT a tank spec, it is a HYBRID spec.

I've seen two opposite opinions from people that seem knowledgeable regarding PVE Deception DPS so I wanted to throw it open for discussion here. Using the standard Deception w/Shock build, do you discharge on CD or only when you reach 5 stacks? Any proven theorycraft on this?

Total immunity to cc is obviously way to OP imo. A lot of other ideas are good thoughts and focused in the right direction (making shield viable in pvp), however they would wreck the pve balance so they won't be accepted. You have to fix shield in a way that applys to pvp. Perhaps, sheild could absorb (based on its absorb rating) against all player based attacks? (Which is basically what people are saying about adding force/tech, but without screwing up pve.) I believe they have the mechanic for this because expertise can differentiate between player/nonplayer damage.

It's not the Valor, so much as the recognition. Athena-Nike has a good point though, they may be voting for a gamebreaker and I can't fault them for that.

I devoted the last couple weeks to keeping a good eye on a healer or two. I'll put my gaurd on them, stay near them, stun, peel, push, taunt, and pwn ppl off of them. I focus target them so if I do wander away for a moment (to save an obj, or help finish an enemy healer) I know if they are OK or not and can speed burst back to them. 90% of the time, the healer throws me heals and keeps me alive. 10% of the time I give up on them because I'm not in the business of being and expendable meat sheild. 50% of the time I get their vote at the end (I'll assume it's theirs since the rest of my numbers suck pretty bad except 'gaurd'). 50% of the time no vote. Here is where the /crybaby comes in... if I spend a whole match mostly devoted to making sure you never die THROW ME A BONE dude, and gimme a vote.

I am a Christian, and I agree with this totally. Somehow an evil Sith Lord with a Santa hat just doesn't bring anything to the table when it comes to honoring the Spirit of the holiday. (Neither did Orc Death Knights in Santa suits)