unicornfive
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Posts posted by unicornfive
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and you know this because you play a mara too?
What is pretty much accepted by other mara/sents that GS and Sniper are their deadliest oponents?
The only reason I kill GS and Snipers is because most are terribad, the good snipers and GS can at worst case scenario keep me locked down, the really good ones kill me...
I know that because i pwn snipers as jugg, and i have half the tools they do...
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A good mara can kill snipers...There are 10 times more maras than snipers, thats why snipers say they dont have problem killing them..
As a jugg i kill 9/10 maras i meet in 1v1...Most of them are keyboard turners that reroll the most OP class in game.
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Im trying to prove that there is a balance. Everyone is all OMG marauders are pvp gods nobody can beat them nerf blah blah blah when in reality it's not the case. Like somebody else pointed out gunslingers have classes that destroy them as well. So yea there is a balance already.
Balance?
There is 1 class that "might" be able to kill marauder.
And that class, happens to be the least played class in game...
Also. what a more effective way to defend your class than pretending to play the counter class of it, and say "i pwn them so easily, plz nerf snipers, which is my main, and buff marauders"
Example for those who cant understand it :
I am sorc, and i wanna whine about operatives that kill me within stun :
Hi, sorcs are so underpowered class, i play Operative and i pwn them so hard, i can take down 2 of the, while i have 50% at start of fight...I feel my class operative needs nerf and sorcs buff.
But i dont blame OP. He knows that forums are full of IQ 10 idiots, and here is the solid proof of it :
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=439813
Just read this troll post and read the replies after...
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Why suddently OP felt the urge to come at forums and try defend mara/sent with risking nerfs for his class? (snipers/gunslingers) So weird...
Translation of real OP's post :
Dear Bioware,
Plz dont nerf my mara/sent plz plz.
I keep losing by snipers/gunslingers and i feel mara is underpowered.
But if i post it like that, ppl here will tell me L2P NOOB.
So i present myself as a sniper, that kills easily maras, in order to prevent my real class (mara) for getting nerfed.
Especialy if ppl believe my lies about killing maras with me at 50% health, they ll probably think about nerfing snipers, he he he.
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vs shadow = tank:loss, dps: 50/50, ignorant player: win
vs sage = real healer: draw - give up, dps: win, ignorant player: instagib
vs vanguard = tank: loss, dps: win 75/25, ignorant player: win
vs commando = healer: win if they dont call for help, dps: 50/50, ignorant player = win
vs guardian = tank: loss, dps: win 75/25, ignorant player = win
vs smuggler = healer: draw-give up, dps: 50/50 - depends on cds, ignorant player = win
vs sniper = loss, ignorant player = win
though i am talking about skilled, and equil geared, players. With your history of whining, forum nerf calls, and etc...id place you in the ignorant player category which is almost always a win.
Some sent has L2P issues i see..
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Wasted? 50% dmg increase on an impale or viscious. inc 6k hit.
6k crit on vicious, while 3k of it is overkill....nice
2nd ) 50% is the max that pooled hatred can stack...i see it 50% like 1 once every 2 days.
3rd ) Great dmg increase if your impale wont crit....
4th ) Enemy wont spam slow u , he will apply it to you once....He has better things to do, like dps u.
5th ) Only sorcs/PT can stack this on u. But wont reach 5 unless u sit and w8, and dont hit anything. Or else is will get consumed before it reach 5 stacks, during your dps rotation.
6th ) Totally useless if none pays attention to u, or if u go kill someone that he is busy shooting or healing something else.
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You can't compare 1 skill from 1 class to another skill of another totally different class. If you're going to try to make comparisons, you have to compare the entire skill set. Saying cloak of pain is better than enraged defense is pointless since maras don't only have this skill and juggs don't only have enraged defense; it's only one part of the whole.
However, if we follow your logic, then comparing ED with a veng jugg to cloak of pain with mara there are some differences that stand in front such as cloak having 20% reduction, can last longer, less down time, etc, but if a veng jugg pops ED, he/she get's an extra 15% dmg reduction, plus the 5-15% mitigation from the heal (varying depending on the dmg received). This skill also has synergy with endure pain to make it more effective. And if you're going to add in the fact that talents can affect things, then we can also stack this extra DR with a 20% dmg reduction on a 15 second CD, which if needed can be immediately reset, and if you wanted to you could talent in to invincible.
Sorry, but different classes are exactly that; different. A lot of jugg's defense comes from mobility. We have charge, which can be reset once per minute, plus we have intercede; both on short CD's. A mara does not have that luxury, they are required to stay in your face. You could argue then that they have a 3 sec cloak to escape instead of intercede, but we can do this all day about everything. The classes are different and work differently. If I wanted a mara's skill set then I'll roll a mara. I happen to like the jugg's. And, within the jugg's skill set, enraged defense works well.
Even if you still think mara's have a better defensive cool down, that does not change the fact that enraged defense is still useful; which iirc after all of my rambling is all I was originally stating. We can't have every one of our abilities be super awesome and as good or better than everyone else's.
I compared cloak of pain with ED PLUS vengeance talent
But i guess u were to lazy to read whole my tiny post....
The healing of ED, is non existant....
U dont get heal every sec, u get every 2 sec when u 1v1 cause of GCD. In addittion, if enemy try to kite a bit, get cc'ed by u, etc., you get almost no heal....
I barely see by health bar go up on my jugg, and i barely see enemy jugg health bar go up when they use it...
Also i compared this defensive cd to the most similar cd of maras.
Ofc they got more ****** cds, like 99% dmg reduction for 5 sec, -90% accurancy debuff for 5 sec (can absorb whole enemy burst when played right...) Stealth with +mov speed and dmg reduction which is REALLY a lifesaving cds...i dont think any other class has similar, exept the 2 stealth classes in game that have combat stealth on cd . And it can also work as offensive cd ( You fully dot enemy, then u use that stealth to minimize the dmg u ll take while dots tick on enemy...
As rage jugg , ED is a wasted spot on action bars. For vengeance its something plus to your survivability, but without enrage, it backfires on you. For immortal i dont know cause i have other class to play tank.
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A jedi shadow is whining about huttball...
Wonder what else i can find in these forums, rofl...
*Stealth into enemy area and w8 for pass
*sprint + run through flames
*Pull enemy ball carrier that is close to score, back into fire pit and instant kill
In voidstar and alderaan wz :
*Prevent enemy to cap turret with sap , attack + vanish, till help arrives
*Attack light defense turret with many stealthers, cause enemy cant see u and ask for help, before its to late.
What more u want? Instant teleport to enemy score line after u get ball??
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Until you learn to fix this class-biased mode. Rateds will be a complete joke if you allow this mode.
Or
Allow the option to pick your own wz.
"Because people know these modes are unbalanced yet they still allow it.
You think the best PvP teams will take a Scoundrel over a Sage or Guardian?
Teams will be stacked with X, Y and Z classes while F and U won't dare get a spot.
We will just abuse the inbalance and there will be no one else to blame but yourselves for it. "
I thought u liked huttball and sacrificing ppl to the fire gods...
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Melee attack roots caster.
Enemy can interrupt it by stun/knockbakcs.
Enemy can run way from it and kite warrior/jugg at same time.
It has 30 sec cd
Its a melee attack, not a spell....
It shouldnt be interrupted by spell that interrupts casts from the beggining.
Also because its OP on maras (with 100% armor ignore or root) it doesnt mean juggs/guardians must get nerfed too....
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384 of 2500 (which i would say is an average hit/crit) = 15%. It's a mitigation skill in a different form, it's not meant to heal you. I would agree with its less than useful nature in rage spec due to the resource cost, but if you're careful can still be used effectively.
In full immo spec it's great since you have the rage for it, the same for vengeance + the extra mitigation on top of the heal. This heals for even more with endure pain activated.
Try using it offensively, like right after you open up on someone and they go to counter you. You will find it will help you stay ahead in hp's. For a 45 sec CD ability it is awesome, just don't be careless with it.
If you think its fine on vengeance tree with talent. i would ask you to check this :
http://www.torhead.com/ability/arJX2s8/cloak-of-pain
*Maras get it without talent
*No rage cost to activate
*Deals some low dmg back to attacker (though that low dmg is higher than vengeance dots -shatter)
*Doesnt drain rage
*Can last up to 30 sec (tripple duration with only 15 sec additional cd)
*20% dmg reduction instead of 15%
*If mara put low tier talent in it, it generates rage
*Another low tier talent for it, if speced, reduces the cd of that spell
Enraged defense, even talented is still quite bad for a defensive cd.
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Initial Rage Cost - Perfectly fine
Rage per hit - Not fine
Healing - Mediocre, although it does total 30% ... Just costs all my rage =\
It doesnt do 30% heal.
In 1v1, enemy will hit u once every 2 sec (cause of GCD and slow animations in most classes)
and dot dmg doesnt seem to affect it.
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* Gives you 5% dmg increase every time u get snared, for 10 sec. Stacks up to 2 times.
I would prefer it a lot more if it worked like that.
The only way i ve seen it on me proc up to 5, it was only when 2-3 sorcs were spaming force lighting on me.
If 2-3 ppl nuke u to get the bonus, u ll be dead without healer anyway..
Also, after 5 stacks, they all get wasted in 1 impale or vicious.
Shatter doesnt get affected by it.
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Let me explain, I have been noticing that many players have been getting killed by Juggs, and complaining about how we are unstoppable. Therefore, I have made a list of changes that I believe Bioware should consider.
Abilities:
1). Vicious slash - Reduce the damage by 30% and increase the rage cost by 2.
2). Force Charge - Increase the CD on force charge by 35 seconds, and increase the damage we take after using force charge by 75%.
3). Smash - Increase the CD on smash by 3 seconds, and reduce the damage dealt by 15%. Also, increase the time it takes to land a hit with this move by 75%.
4). Saber Ward - Increase the CD by 5 extra minutes and have it require 5 rage to use.
5). Force Scream - Reduce damage done by 10% and increase the CD by 33%.
6). Ravage - Increase the CD by 60 seconds, and reduce the damage dealt by 95%.
7). Threatening Scream - Increase the CD by 15 seconds, and have it cost 3 rage.
8). Impale - Reduce the damage of this move by 55%, and increase the CD by 7 seconds.
9). Crash - Add that back in, without it, we are actually efficient in combat.
10). Force Choke - Increase the CD by 30 seconds, and have it build 0 rage.
11). Unleash - Increase the CD by 33 seconds.
12). Force Push - After using Force push, make sure that we cannot move/charge afterwords.
Talents:
Rage:
1). Payback - Even after the stealth nerf, oh, I mean buff, we are still able to heal ourselves. Reduce healing by 5%.
2). Shockwave - Allow Shockwave to only stack up to 2 times. Oh, and reduce the damage of the buff by half.
3). Force Crush - Remove the reduction of speed. It is good sportsmanship to allow an enemy to run away.
Vengeance:
1). Ruin - Remove this talent.(Replace with Ruined - Reduces damage dealt by 35%)
2). Pooled Hatred - Remove this talent.(Replace with Sadness - Reduces your running speed by 10%)
3). Savagery - Reduce the critical hit chance of force scream and vicious throw by 30%.
4). Rampage - Remove this talent.(Replace with Kindess - Restores enemy health back to max)
Immortal:
1). Invincible - Increase the CD by 2 minutes. Also, reduce damage taken by 20%.
2). Sonic Barrer - Remove this talent.(Replace with Gift Giving - Places a barrier on the enemy target to shield them from incoming attacks)
3). Thrown gauntlet - Increases the CD of Force Push by 90 seconds.
4). Force Grip - Force Choke no longer needs to be channeled, however, there is a 95% chance that this could backfire and you may choke yourself.
Haha, dont worry...
Bioware will nerf them even more.
Seen what they did in 1.2?
Because jugg dmg was to high, highest then every class in game, they wanted to add some drain rage debuff on other classes so they can counter the allmighty OP-as-hell Juggs.
But because they knew juggs would whine, they hidden this rage drain debuff within a jugg spell : Enraged Defense
Then they added some crap heal on it, to lure noob juggs into pressing it and nerf themselves.
Saw any jugg whine about this nerf? No...
Mission accompished.
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Maras arent OP and they dont need nerf...
I quit 2 valor rank 60+ chars and rerolled a mara...and i assure u its balanced like every other class!!
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I have a couple alts still plagued so I can bring them out in 5 years and cause an outbreak (for nostalgia's sake).
What makes you think that SWTOR will last more than 2 years?
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I have done a lot of studying to figure out how to beat these classes. I have video and stats to back it up. I did this NFL style watching game tape. Steps are below!
1. Kite!
2. Kite more!
3. More kiting!
There use to be skill in this game. Stop requesting the removal of that skill. Learn your class before you destroy the game.
Battlemaster Sorc
Nos
I have 1 more tactic, as smart as yours...
1. Kill him before he kills you!
2. Kill him before he kills you again..!
3. More Kill him before he kills you...!
--> "Insert some lie here to make ppl think u are smart, with the classic L2p line"
Battlemaster Mara
Mos
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Charge + push + charge is solid. If you dont think that combo is any worthy, you are the one who shouldn't be playing jug.
Charge at noob standing on the ramp before the goal in huttball.
Knock them down to the front of the goal.
Charge again.
Score.
Repeat.
Jugg = win. If you feel ike the class suck, l2p.
And for the record I've never once cried bout how weak mara were because I know they weren't.
Pre 1.2 and post 1.2, it makes no difference to me.
See how many ppl whine about maras.
See how many ppl whine about assassins.
See how many ppl whine about sorcs.
See how many ppl whine about operatives.
See how many ppl whine about mercs.
Plz show me some whine post of "plz nerf jugg they are so OP"
Juggs and snipers are the only classes that ppl dont whine about...
Think a bit.
And about charge push charge...wow...u found something that can work only in huttball...
Like sprint + force immunity and run through flames. Repeat.
Pull enemy ball carrier that is 1 step to scoreline, back to the fire pit. Repeat.
Aoe knockback everyone that attacks your ball carrier, over the ramp. Repeat.
Pull enemy player that goes toward to your scoreline, up to your spawning point and instant kill him without scoring. Repeat.
Pull friendly target on enemy ramp and get him ready to score. Repeat.
And other spells that are Usefull in huttball only...
According to you, a class is good if he performs good in 1 warzone?
"Plz nerf jugg class cause he can charge and score in huttball fast"
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1. Chilling Scream AKA the spammable AOE slow: Every Juggernaut that doesn't suck, regardless of spec, is talented in such a way that Chilling Scream has no Rage cost. It is spammable.
Sure rage spec gonna use that talent instead of +6% overall dmg and +6% strength.
Sure vengeance tree is gonna use taht spamable instead of the ravage boost talent.
I guess u dont play jugg...If u do, u are incredibly bad at it...
2. Force Push is not bugged. If it doesn't work for you, make excuses. it works fine. And charge > push > charge is a solid combo.
Ok, now im 100% sure u dont play one....
And why the hell u should charge push charge like an idiot? to achieve what?
Push for experienced players is another kind of interrupt for important situations (for mara's ravage and other spells when u wanna chain interrupt...
Only scrubs (like u) do charge, push , charge and think they achieved something...
3. Taunts are in the tank package? Did you not buy the tank package when you leveled your toon? You don't have to be in Soresu form to taunt. If you're a Jugg, regardless of spec, and you're not taunting........
Assassins dont need to be in dark charge to taunt.
Powertechs dont need to be in tank stance to taunt.
4. Rage spec with a shield(or without) and stance dancing between Soresu and Shii-Cho is an acceptable way to play a Jugg. Guard is not out of the question. One of the best Guardians I've seen did this. He managed to keep his healer alive when he needed to, and was able to Force Sweep peoples' faces off.
after 1,2 if u have a clue, u dont use shii-cho...
U only get 3% dmg more and use lose a lot stuff..
Cause u arent mara u know...to keep max dmg and max survivability at same time...
And again...every class in game with guard can save his healer that way...
Answer in purple.
Wont bother reply more to ppl that dont have a clue about some class in game..
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Force Push, Saber Throw, Charge > Push > Charge AGAIN **** SO OP! Spammable AOE SLOW WUT????? 2 taunts, Guard, Intercede, Enraged Defense!
Now that I think of it...
**** NERF JUGG SO HARD AHHHHH!!!!
Force push 1 min cd and its so buged it might push enemy towards your score line, than away from it....
Aoe slow is spamable as long as u have unlimited raged or be tank spec....
2 rage per slow doent make it spamable..
Guard and taunts are in the tank package of every class in game... Mara's spells arent...
And the 2nd mechanic with fury on top of rage....seriously...
And last, enraged defense, is considered a rage drain buff for every class...
When u fight jugg, pray he ll use it to drain 4 rage + 1 rage per sec from himself, and being unable to dps...
Yes, nerf jugg idd...
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With everyone calling marauders the new overpowered class and calling them the best at everything in PVP, it seems like a good chance to explain some of the strengths and weaknesses of the class as a whole. If only to educate the masses of people asking for nerfs to a class with very powerful strengths, and very glaring weaknesses.
Now here come the Cons to the marauder class with some details added for people that don't play Marauders.
1. Very susceptible to being kited. Marauders(and Juggernauts) are the only class that requires to be in melee combat to generate their "energy" as well as to do any kind of damage. With only 2 gap closers on a 12s CD and 45s CD it is very possible to kept out of melee range for extended periods of times against classes such as Sorcerers and Snipers. It is also a nightmare for a marauder to attack groups of ranged classes with knockback+roots. It is not unheard of to spend 30+ seconds being chain KB+rooted+mezzed as a marauder vs groups of ranged. No other class can be shutdown as completely as maras with coordinated soft and hard CC due to being a pure melee class with 0 energy regen outside of melee. Roots not being affected by resolve is also a huge issue maras have to deal with as it is effectively a hard CC for maras.
Like all melee classes....But combat stealth makes it harder to get kited than most melee classes...
2. Very low survivability outside of defensive CDs. Marauders without defensive CDs up drop faster than just about any other class especially since they are in the middle of the enemy team. It is very possible to be hit with a stun at 100% hp with no defenses up and die in under 4 seconds to 2 burst dps. If your CC breaker is up you can avoid this, but then you run the risk of being stunned at <20% and not being able to pop Undying Rage. Much like the current Ravage/Undying Rage complaints on the forums against marauders you can't avoid both.
Almost all your defensive cds have arround 1min cooldown............Are you kidding us?
* 99% dmg reduction, 1.5 min cd, gets lowered with talents
* Cloak of pain 1 min cd, lasts 30 sec (rofl 30 sec...)
* Stealth , 45 SEC
* -90% accurancy from enemy, 1 min cd....
* 30% aoe dmg reduction, anti-smash, deathfield..PERMANENT
* saber ward 3min
If you get caught without defensive cds ready...sorry, but u have serious L2P issues...
And even without them, 30% aoe dmg reduction makes them survive better than all other classes..
Smash, death from above...only these can bring someone to half hp when he get caught in them while fighting others.
3. Nearly no utility outside of pure damage. In an objective based game this is a huge weakness, and a reason you will never see 4+ marauders on any rated WZ team. This weakness affects Huttball the worst, but also carries over to general group PVP. they have no Pull to kill enemy ball carriers. they have no Knock back to knock them off ledges. They aren't tanky enough to carry the ball. They again are VERY susceptible to any kind of soft CC such as roots and knock backs. Its not uncommon to be unable to stop a node from being captured simply due to being rooted/slowed for 10+ seconds >4m away from the node(they have to chase down ranged targets). They have to deal with the full extent of tanking stats of tanks, and do miserably low damage as a result to most ball carriers. They have no guard/taunt like other melee to protect healers, and in a game so centered around guarded healers that's a big one. So in general they are among the worst classes to have when you need something other then pure damage.
No utility idd.
No healing debuff
No group dmg buff
No group speed buff..
And *** u talking about they dont have guard like other melee...
Operatives have guard??
And how exactly the tankiest class in game in PVP, isnt tanky enough to carry the ball?
4. Are hard countered by Snipers in Group PVP to an almost impossible degree. I could list the many reasons why, but suffice to say snipers + healers absolutely destroy teams of marauders with almost no effort. Marauders also lack the means to kill an Operative healer. Between their HoTs, and their dispel removing the maras dots/slows, and their plethora of CC, and evasion, and vanish it is impossible for a mara to even pressure an Op healer that understands both classes. Maras also lose 1v1 to Snipers/Operatives/Tankassins. Say what you will about 1v1 not mattering, but it is an important factor in PVP. So effectively maras have a counter in Group PVP, and are beaten by 3/7 of the other classes 1v1.
Clearly l2p issues...
5. Very weak at killing tanks in PVP. This might not seem like a huge deal, but marauders have to deal with the full extent of of a tanks defenses. Marauders take forever to kill any kind of tank in PVP. This is very important as to take a node or door you have to generally kill the tanks guarding it quickly before reinforcements come. Marauders are simply not a class that is capably of doing this. Marauders are also very weak at killing enemy ball carriers in huttball due to their weak damage against tanky targets as well as their very limited ability to use the Hazards to kill the carrier. Its almost laughable watching 5+ marauders try to kill a tank with 2 healers behind him. This makes marauders one of the worst classes when it comes to achieve WZ objectives that are being guarded by tanks.
Like all other classes in game...But still higher then them..
In conclusion you have a class that is a powerhouse in a deathmatch style group PVP setting, but falls short when it comes to Objective based PVP as well as against teams with Snipers on them as well as against chain soft CC. I believe a large issue behind why marauders are seeming to do so well right now is partly due to the current focus on non organized players playing WZs like a deathmatch, and not as an objective based WZ. Another huge issue is that there are so few Snipers playing the game to counter Marauders, and trust me they counter marauders HARD.
If snipers counter maras so bad, then what can i say about juggernauts?? May delete their class?
So the next time you ask to nerf Marauders please understand that they have very little going for them outside of high single target dps and very powerful temporary defenses. If you remove either of these things then marauders will become very lackluster in Group PVP. If you have to nerf their survivability or damage than you need to give them utility on par with the other melee classes such as taunt/guard/pull/knockbacks/multiple stuns/ranged damage/etc.
How about remove healing debuff
Remove all defensive cds but 1 and add it 3 min cd
Remove the 100% ignore armor skill
Remove the root on ravage
Remove the 30% scream crit dmgo n carnage tree
Remove fury mechanic and all the cds from it
Remove 30% aoe dmg taken
Without all them, the class becomes same as juggernaut...
If u want balance... Nerf marauders heavy...all boost to God mode all other classes in game
TLDR- Marauders are powerful but have viable counters. Oh and I guess flame away and what not.
Added true facts in your "Plz bioware dont nerf my mara" post
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Don't queue in a WZ then....solo kill..../facepalm
I was defending grass with someone else
They needed help in mid so i decided to go
Half way, assassin ganks me
When he is at 10% hp, the only 1 defender of turret leaves and comes to finish him off.
2nd assassin ninja turret and make it unable to recap it with his cc till his friends arrive..
Get a clue before u post ur nonsense
......
/facepalm
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get better.
I spam heal and shield on my targets and its not enough to keep them up while they fight mara/sent....
You should know that since u play fotm mara.
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I have a question about something that none mentioned.
WHY The highest dps class in game mara/sent have ALSO Healing debuff ???
Are you serious Bioware??? The odds of surviving a mara as healer are pretty much zero.
No matter his spec.... anni, carnage, or rage....*** is going on..
Marad/sent is a cakewalk.
in PvP
Posted · Edited by unicornfive
Also :
99% dmg reduction for 5 sec
stealth for 6 sec with move speed and dmg reduce
-90% accurancy debuff on them
20% dmg reduction for 30 sec
-30% aoe dmg reduciton passive (talent, if u have it) vs orbital strike
How exactly they keep u locked down and kill u? They do ghandalf tricks?
It takes something more than faceroll to kill them, unlike other classes...
L2p issues much?