Forsbacka
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Posts posted by Forsbacka
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I still think your asking to bring a failed dead horse system to this game and beat it over and over again. But hey if BW wants it then let them have at it most if not all the guys who dont like the system will move on to greener pastures hopeing you stay here and arena yourself to sleep every night and not try to import it to the next game we play.
YOu have absolutely no idea what your talking about.
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No World pvp is and has always been the goal for hard core pvp players not fight in a box to show my skillz. When you add rewards that benifit the player and not the faction as a whole is when you run into problems as it becomes a source of loot and once done the whole keeping up with the jones cycle begins. It becomes something you dont do for fun or the comp but you do because if you dont you cant pvp at all due to the massive gear desparity it causes regardless of skill.
And your incorrect about Aion being the only game DAOC did it and is held up as a very good example of faction based pvp with goals based on the concept of benifiting your sides cause not your personal gear set. GW2 is smart to go with this concept its a winner not like the failed arena system people want to keep importing over to SWTOR.
When i said big games with world PvP as endgame, i didnt mention DAoC cause it was a small game compared to monsters we have now, it had 350k subs at best. When you say that WoW arena had gear advantages you dont know what your talking about, it was very casual friendly, arena giving same gear to everyone and at mediocre ratings up to top teams, everyone had same gear.
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Hero’s Journey
Long ago in a company far far away, we were building a game called Hero’s Journey. It was an ambitious game with many wonderful features. We had our own special way of building games based on a unique process that we had developed while building pioneering online games like GemStone and DragonRealms. Our goal was to build a modern graphical MMO RPG that allowed our team of designers to continually add new content into the game – new areas, new spells, whatever they could think of.
We took an early version of our game to the legendary 2005 E3 show. We rented a small room in the back of a small hall, very far away from the giant multimedia extravaganza exhibits of EA, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and the rest of the empires. We set up meetings with people we knew, members of the press, friends in the industry, and publishers. We hoped to build enough interest to get a publisher to provide enough funding to expand the team and finish the game.
A few people got very excited, but not the way we planned.
“I need this.”
We showed the game to our friend Gordon Walton. We had known Gordon for many years, back in the days when he worked for Kesmai, our late great competitor. Gordon had since been with Sony for its Star Wars Galaxies game among other places. He knows games, especially online games.
Not only did we show him the game, but because Gordon knew us so well we showed him the development tools we had built around our special process – building the game online, in realtime, with tools for the entire team all in one package.
“I need this,” said Gordon. “I am about to start a special project and these tools will let us build and prototype fast and get something running in a hurry.” Gordon is not an excitable guy by nature but this had his adrenaline flowing. “This is just what I need! I want to license your engine.”
We had thought about offering our engine and tools to developers but we had expected that we would have to actually ship a game first, like Epic did with Unreal Tournament before they licensed the original Unreal Engine.
“It’s not productized yet,” we told Gordon. “There are whole sections of code that is only roughed in and not optimized for performance or security. And there are very few comments and very little documentation.”
He didn’t care. “We are going to have tons of engineers. We can finish it ourselves. We’re going to want to modify your source code for our special project anyway.”
BioWare Licenses HeroEngine For…
A few months after the show we heard from Gordon again. He was now the co-head of a new online game studio in Austin as part of BioWare. This was very impressive. Not only was Gordon a solid guy but BioWare was (and still is!) at the very top tier of game developers, the kind of company that made games that were always great. Soon the deal was done – soon meaning after months of painful negotiations and many weeks of meetings with teams of engineers who examined every line of our source code and interrogated our engineers. We were concerned over their making major changes to our engine, but we loved the size of the check that came with the deal.
A year or so later, it became clear to us that BioWare was building a Star Wars MMO. We had to keep the secret for another couple of years but it was incredibly exciting. If you watch some of the videos of BioWare developing SW:TOR, you can see HeroEngine and its unique tools and process being used by the massive team on this incredible project.
Our role began and ended long ago, in a company far far away, but we’re still excited over the part we have played in helping BioWare (now part of EA, of course) bring its vision to life.
by Neil Harris, President and COO of HeroEngine
Looks like BW messed up with the engine.
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Ceo of the company that made hero engine said that how it works now is due BWs bad coding. BW said that they can finish the engine which wasnt even ready, with BWs own engineers, Company that created heroengine havent been part of ToRs engine in 3 years and they said they aint happy about the heavy modding that BW did to it, but they also said that they liked the big fat check that BW wrote to em for half done engine.
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I agree. Clearly what we need in this (alleged) MMO is for people to team up in smaller groups vs other small groups. It would certainly be a lot better than taking advantage of the fact that there are quite a lot of people playing the same game.
Yes. I say implement rated small scale arenas ASAP, and just forget about trying to create some sort of semi-meaningful open world PvP. I don't log on to SW:TOR's huge lobby to play with and versus big groups of people! Give more instanced, meaningless grinds, please!
Sorry but they aint making world pvp as "endgame" since players has showed that they dont want to do world pvP. Only game so far with big player base that has had meaningful world PvP and based on world pvp has been aion. Making an expensive game for world PvP is financial suicide.
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But i want to wear worse gear to prove myself.
You know, like a useless axe of the pit.
Dont know any games like that.
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I would be neat if the game was skill based enough that higher ranked players could go around in WORSE gear just to prove how awesome they are.
Id kill for an mmo where gear accounted for ~10% of your overall performance.
High ranked people already plays mainly against other high ranked players in equal gear, in WoW. Maybe you should try that game, there aint really gear differences since everyone gets equal gear in arena or RBGs, even the bad ones.
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agreed, give the best players gear that distingushes them visually, not statistically
I agree, thats what best players has gotten used to in WoW since creation of arena.
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glad you agree giving higher ranked players an even bigger advantage is stupid
Indeed, give everyone in normal WZs exact same gear statwise and make valor ranks give only visual upgrades to prevent gear advantages for people that dont need it anyway.
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Well I am not sure why you assume I am for or against arena. PvP should be about timing your abilities nothing else. There will never be balance in an MMO because balance is a subjective term. End of story.
We balancing 1v1? We balancing for PvE? We balancing for 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 5v5? We balancing how easy it is to level up? Balance how my gear looks?
Theres a reason 1 class is a tank and 1 class is heals. Healer cant tank!?! Oh my gosh balance me please!
There is no balance in MMO's and there never has been.
P.s. Arena *********** blows and does not show who or what is more skilled at all. (I have not played WoW's arena this is purely based on opinion.)
I agree on every part on balance and been saying that . Arena may not show whos skilled or not but every single team at top ratings in rated battlegrounds was made out of mostly high rated arena players. Its not what kinda PvP they play, warzones, BGs, rated warzones, rated BGs, arena, world PvP. They are beeing competetive and determind to be as good players they can skillwise, tactically, gearwise, classwise, well anything that gives advantage and thats why they usually excel in every possible aspect of PvP. Competetive players are just simply better in PvP.
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You are wrong pal. If you want competition, you only look at skill, not gear. If you only do ranked to get better gear, then you don't enjoy the competition, you enjoy the carrot on a stick, which is ok, but it's not the true mindset of a pvp'er, it's just another PvE trend.
If you do normal WZs, you dont enjoy competition.
But ina ll seriousness, in WoW gear wasnt an issue where it mattered, at average ratings to highest ratings gear wasnt an issue in RBGS or arenas since everyone had same gear in a medium time span. I dont think that rated WZ or arena players are asking for better gear statwise, just bad ones. Competetive PvPrs have done PvP on equal ground gearwise since vanilla and used to equal gear. Im sure that all serious PvPrs are fine with only cosmetic upgrades on gear based on rating/ranking, same should apply to normal WZs and valor gear.
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Which is why i say 'competitive pvp' is just something semi-casuals do to feel superior to the regular casuals. If your primary motivation is not improving your skill for the pure sake of being better at the game and the joy in knowing you are among the best players, you are some flavor of casual.
That would kill the mmorpg aspect of the game, where gear and planning and stuff is important.
I dont think there should be pvp gear though. I would prefer a system like daoc where crafters made all the best gear and people would just order a set of gear, tailor made with the stat setup they want, and wear that. Everyone had more or less the same potential total gear worth. With some crazy overcharges thrown in occasionally
It would be good for pvp and hardcore crafters alike.
As far as valor, i would say it should only give visual bonuses, but i honestly dont even seen the need for valor if its just something you grind, it cant be used as any sort of reasonable measure in its current state. You could say seeing someone whos BM should imply that they have pvpd enough that they aught to know what they are doing at least, but sadly that doesn't really mean that
I would rather see even cosmetic pvp stuff be based on your average performance
So at same time your talking about skill and peviously about not rerolling for FOTM classes each time and playing only 1 char at your best , lower win % of underbog class possible beeing better record than high win % of fotm class. On the other side we got WZs that gives serious gear advantages and giving chance for better player to lose to worse one due unfair gear differences.
You say that giving same gear to everyone statwise would prolly kill MMRPG aspect in PvP which i agree on. So if people dont want rated system award better gear to create gear differences and creating unfair PvP fights and gear>skill issues, at same time are ok with valor ranks giving better gear to create exact same conditions?
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Sarcasm is a stranger to you I see.
Nah, i just get troubled when people that are against arena and it giving better gear to create gear> skill and class balance problems when at same time there is class balance problems in WZs and valor ranks giving better gear statwise than freshly dinged 50s in green gear creating same gear>skill issues.
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The race that Jarjar Binks belong to, or Ewokks.
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The goal should be in mastering the system though, thats the goal of any game.
The ultimate point of pvp in an mmo is proving you are better. You can prove you're better while losing by losing slower than people would have expected you to.
The reason i like class based systems over skill based systems, is that fixed classes give you a set of strengths and weaknesses you must adapt to and learn to use properly. Rerolling for fotm just destroys this entire dynamic.
So whos better, the guy who wins all the time with the current fotm, or the guy who wins half the time with the class everyone else has given up on?
Its amateurish to play against your opponent, if you are serious you are playing against yourself.
They guy is who wins is better in PvP than the guy who loses. Beeing good at PvP is to do whatever it takes to win, thats ofc in competetive PvP which in this games case will be rated warzones.
Whats your take on gear, should valor ranks give only visual upgrade and everyone should have equal gear soon as they hit 50 statwise?
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Yes because they have done it once..... When are they pushing out a balancing patch again exactly?
PvP wont be balanced in any MMORPG, not in DaoC, not in WoW, not in Rift, not in ToR. Its just somekinda illusion that some people think can be done. Only way is to have 1 class, same gear, same talents, no grouping.
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Level of diffculty in PVE and PvP content and how short time it took to complete.
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Only because they make it so easy to reroll in these modern games.
I really wish they would fix that.
Even if you take rerolling out of the equation, best PvPrs maximize every thing to get best results. Not allow to rerolling would prolly cause many people to not able to participate at high rated PvP at all, depending on the nerfs and buffs in each patch. In this patch you are awesome PvP class and welcome to the team, in next patch your class is nerfed and you are not welcome to the team, catch my drift?
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no , im sorry it did not...
it literally divided the playerbase, because since you use the SAME ABILTIES ON PVP AND PVE any nerf/buff to any abilty or talent affected both...
so it ended up pissing a part of the playerbase, and even a lot of the blizzard devs that implemented this admitted that they made a mistake by giving it so much focus, after so many years, what happened to their esport pipe dream? it never materialized, and to players that loved playing pvp because it was fun (you know those of us that played back in vanilla for crappy pvp sets with crappy stats just because we liked it?) actually got turned off by the new focus on pvp balance and equality , by making gear sets be divided and making me HAVE to farm two sets to be effective at two areas of the game when i never had to
it was either arena or die, and thats where they went wrong imo
At some point yes, but after introduction of rated BGs, you had venue for exactly same gear as via arenas. And i know about old vanilla system, my briefhistory in WoW PvP was rank 13 in vanilla, 2.8k in arena and RBGs, over 300k HKS spread on various characters and +70% win ration no matter which faction i played in normal BGs.
You glorify vanilla PvP system and say it was more fair, when there was les than 1% of players that had acces to epic PvP gear, and that PvP gear was totally useless compared to AQ40 and naxx gear that we had, i never even used any of my epic PvP apart from insignia in Vanilla.
You want people to be equal in PvP, that gear holds no meaning in outcome of victory or defeat. Only solution is to give players exactly same gear statwise from a vendor and people can use it in world PvP, WZs, rated WZs, you can get only cosmtic upgrades to it via valor or ratings. Then its equal, except then some might use superior Pve gear or crafted gear or...
In MMO PvP equal chance based on skill is a a dream every single game. You can get no skill related advantage of grouping with 1-x people, you can get advantage from better gear, better mods, better spec, more time consumed, from better class/spec. Any serious and good PvPr will maximize all mentioned above and do anything possible to win. Skill matters but not that much in MMORPG PvP, compared to PvP genres that has lot higher skill ceiling and possibly more equal rules like FPS and RTS games.
Saying that good arena players and rated WZ players doesnt need better gear for killing lesser players but at same time having good battlemasters killing green geared fresh 50s in normal WZs is atleast troubling. Want fair? Give everyone same gear then and only visual upgrades via valors, when you hit 50. That would destroy MMORPG aspect of the game for PvP though.
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War is not fair. The skill is in ensuring the decks are stacked in your favor. And that IS a skill.
Idd, and thats why people that does anything for win, will reroll classes which are in favor, will optimize group setups and flawless tactics, have best possible gear, well anything that gives advantage for winning, although people need personal skill also hence there wasnt an single RBG group that wasnt made out mainly out of fairly high rated arena people. Exactly the same will happen in rated WZs and its essence of PvP, get every advantage that you need for your team to win and be more skilled than other people that are doing the same.
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But being a battlemaster doesn't necessarily mean you're a good player, a good player in champion gear will still wipe the floor with a mediocre player in BM
Exactly the same between arena and normal BG gear in WoW, exactly same in here. Most people that did rated BGs or arena were average players skillwise but they get same gear as best players in the world. You give too much credit for gear. What if good battlemaster kills freshly dinged bad geared player? Why dos he need that gear to get even more advantage?
If you dont want rated WZs or possible arenas that were talking here to give better gear than normal WZs cause gear differences would make higher cap between geard and not geared player, you have to aply it to all PvP and give everyone in normal WZs same gear statwise from start, and get only cosmetic upgrades from valor ranks. And since you wanted all PvP to be equal gear wise, same gear should be gained from world PvP without any ranks, so you have to give same gear for people that dont do WZs soon as they hit 50 or make WZ gear only usable inside WZs.
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... pvp in general
So why everyone aint wearing exactly same gear in normal WZs, im sure that everyone in normal Wzs should have exactly same stats, valor gear should be only for cosmetic upgrades or do you want to play with double standards?
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... What?
All I'm saying is that if you're a good enough player to do well in rated warzones/arena, you're a good enough player that giving you a gear advantage on top of that is overkill.
Gear advantage for what part of the game?
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Imo any gear you get from arena or rated wzs should only be cosmetic, if you're good enough to get high ratings in arenas / rated wzs you're good enough that you don't need the extra gear in the first place.
Need extra gear for what? Or are you saying that you need best gear in normal WZs, are you saying that you cant be "competetive" in normal WZs? There isnt anything competetive in normal WZs that you need best gear for in the first place. I did 164-3 win loss ratio in normal Wzs and i didnt have best gear, i had +70% win ratio in normal BGs on every max level char in wow, i had 6 of em spread on both factions and i had best gear on 2 of em. Rated WZs that will be most likely befor 8 man premades only will most likely yeld better gear than gear given in normal WZs.
Bioware, accept responsibility for your crappy engine.
in General Discussion
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No one have done that before in a single thread about this issue.