I was vocal about the elimination of the participation daily when they first rolled out 1.2. I'm very glad they've factored participation back into the daily pvp missions. Sure, it may be too little too late, but Bioware did finally notice that the small niche audience that liked the 1.2 award allocation system and no dailies for participation was not who keep the revenue stream flowing. Besides, prior to 1.2, no one in these forums had a major problem with pvp dailies for participation or with how much losers in WZ's got based on their performance. Now, since pvp compensation/dailies is more in line with what it was pre-1.2 it's a serious problem for the minority that was incorrectly pandered to. This small demographic also hated the great open world experience (on the higher pop servers at least) that was the most fun pvp this game has seen yet.

I know what you mean. I think in conjunction with a 30 minute queue lockout for those leaving a WZ, you should get the chance to see what WZ you will be entering and opt out of it. For example, the queue acceptance pop up emerges indicating you're going to Huttball. Before you actually enter the queue, you would have the ability to refuse and then requeue until the WZ you want is ready. This would be very feasible once cross-server queues are implemented and people won't have to stick it out in a warzone they don't like.

Take your medicines and please don't murder your classmates on Monday, K? The point is if you and the same ppl I may see over and over again rage quit 30 seconds into an undecided WZ get a 30 minute no-login penalty, I won't be stuck in a 2 or 4 vs. 8 as long as I would be now because of LeetPro social cripples like you. People that Bioware seems to cater to as their perceived main pvp base.

That's fine, but if you can't queue back up again for 30 minutes or so, that's a guarantee for me that social cripple leetpros like yourself won't throw everyone under the bus one or two minutes into a match that can still be won because of your anxiety attack/ADHD/mom's notification of warm hotpocket... for a half hour or so at any rate.

If I missed a plot point somewhere, I can take it on the chin. No need to flame. Now that you mention it, some of the people who are the hardest to get along with in real life tend to be the ones who choose the most virtuous hero classes in RPG's, but that's a topic for another time. Anyway, if I missed a plot point, I do feel it was seriously glossed over, and I fail to see how people who are able to cause landslides with their minds were unable to get a bunch of barbaric tribesmen with spears into lockstep before the outset of the Jedi story in TOR.

Can't wait for a debuff, myself. Tired of watching the LeetPros weep and ragequit. And no, I don't show up for pvp in my columi/rakata set.

Validified is not a word. L2W That means Learn to write.

I'm not contesting the history the Jedi have with this world, but let's face it. The Flesheaters are the indigenous people, and no effort was made to find a nonviolent solution. Given their primitivism, the Jedi should have been able to come in and be worshipped as gods to avoid the violence if other ideas failed. Another poster above said that basically it was okay to let the Twi'leks die because they were there illegally. I just don't see justification for not offering protection and humanitarian aid to the refugees before having them shipped out and dumped on another republic world. They could have stuck more closely with their ideals and still not do the 100% "right thing."

These are awful. 12-year-old anime fans and swishy hair stylists shouldn't design content for this game.

... how, pre-1.2, how no one thought the amount of valor, credits, comms, etc. the losing side got in a warzone was out of line. Then, after 1.2's botched awarding system was rolled back to the 1.1 allocations, suddenly there's this outrage on the forums from LeetPro griefers that it's not fair. It's also interesting that, before the 1.2 change/rollback on the awards, that most of the "LeetProHardcore" players seemed to look down on quitting WZ's. Now afterward, there's post after post in thread upon thread from these "hardcores" justifying quitting warzones if other players don't measure up to their allegedly high standards. Also, many of these same players were very upset about the Rakghoul event, which provided this game with the first really great open world pvp TOR has seen. So, what's the problem here, kids?

I'd like to see them try this once cross-server queues are enabled. I can still have fun pvp'ing in a pug against a premade even if we're losing, but pug v. pug provides the most competitive matches for someone who queues solo or at the most with one other guildie.

I see what you're saying, and you do get the choices to right some of those wrongs. My point is, if the Jedi were even remotely close to following their ideals, it wouldn't be up to a padawan to make these things happen. Many situations in this game leave gray areas for the more self serving in the republic to put their own desires ahead of doing the right thing, while still staying just to the correct side of the line. I don't see how they can justify just letting the refugees die. Have soldiers come down, bus them out and unceremoniously dump them on another habitated world. That's a cruddy thing to do in many ways, but with the right spin on it, they can always say "hey we did our job and got these people to safety and they were granted asylum within the republic. I just don't see how anyone can justify the plausibility of this simply because of the Twi'lek camp's fringe religious beliefs or that no diplomatic overtures of any kind were made with the Flesheaters just because they're technologically in the stone age. If nothing else the flesheaters could have been subdued with a vulgar display of force power without harming a soul. We've seen jedi collapse caves, move huge boulders and objects, etc. A display of that kind of power would keep them in line. Maybe the flesheaters would end up worshipping them as gods. The solutions as I described are morally ambiguous given the Jedi code, but both barely fall within the lines and stick to their main credo of only killing as a last resort. They have total control over this situation, yet choose essentially to just murder, encroach and let people in need die for nothing. Btw, some great discussion here!

And I've said very clearly you should not be rewarded for this attitude. 30 minute penalty. You and players that think like you deserve it for leaving.

Good. Won't miss a player with your attitude. I'm tired of ADD LeetPro babies quitting the moment a warzone becomes a challenge. Your attitude quite frankly is garbage and indicates you're one of the social gimps that are happy just farming the same few people over and over again. Until Bioware rolled back the award allocation changes to 1.1 levels, they seemed to make pvp just for you. I'm all for a 30 minute queue ban for players like you who feel entitled to quit because theyr'e so awesome.

We may have come upon a plothole here, since there was no mention of botched diplomacy leading to the situation at hand with the flesheaters. As far as the Twi'leks, if the Republic wanted them out, send a regiment of commandos to escort them assertively to a shuttle to take them off world. Even if they don't give the refugees any say in where they're relocated, that's still more in line with the ethos of the Republic/Jedi, and a more believable gray area. There's no real reason to just sit back and let the Flesheaters slaughter them. The Jedi/Republic seems to go out of their way to save what oppressed Twi'leks they could in other contexts. If they wanted to show underhandedness by the Republic without drawing attention to any wrongdoing, a more plausible way would have been to airlift them out and make sure the ship carrying them has an "accident" after takeoff. As far as the Jedi writing off the Flesheaters because they didn't talk, it's established that these creatures can communicate verbally with one another. Even if they didn't, writiing, religion, tools, etc. show beyond any measure of doubt that these are sentient beings, not animals. It doesn't seem like a matter of fallibility here, but just deciding not to follow the most basic parts of their code and ideals simply because they didn't want to.

I never asserted that the Jedi philosophy was a "prime directive." Note that I cited the lack of introducing technology to them to give them incentive to assimilate. Also I fail to see how the core values of helping others in need, like the refugees and not steamrolling over native peoples without an actual reason other than saying "it's ours, too bad how sad" can be justified by the Jedi or the Republic government. What am I misunderstanding here exactly? Also, I said nothing about non interference or avoiding contact. My entire point was there should have been an attempt at diplomatic contact before deciding to run them through first and ask questions later. Using your mindset, Luke Skywalker would have still been on the righteous path if he had decided to start killing ewoks because, hey, the Republic needed to gain control of Endor.

Because it makes for good conversation. To a degree I'm with you on the above, but I'm not debating which one is better over the other, but rather how the Jedi can treat the natives and the refugees the way they do that contradicts their core ideals in such an obvious way. If the Sith were faced with the same situation and didn't just steamroll over the Flesheaters and either kill the refugees outright or sell them into slavery to ease the financial burden of their building projects on the world that's just as diametrically opposed to their core ideals (in a huge and very obvious way) that the Jedi treatment of these groups is.

Barbaric, yes, but the fact remains that the Jedi simply just moved in and made no overtures whatsoever diplomatically to get them to align with the republic or to help guide them into the fold with the Republic and their ideals. If they had sent a diplomatic envoy (with adequate protection to show that violence can be reciprocated) and the effort was met with Jedi heads on poles, then a police action policy is more understandable. The problem here is that they show all the hallmarks of an intelligent primitive tribal society. They have a chieftan-based social structure, they can make fairly complex tools given their low tech, they show the early beginnings of writing, and they have a polytheistic religion. The fact they turn their warlike tendencies on the Jedi is because the order never even bothered to respect the fact they were moving right in to an indigenous species home. In other words, they never gave the Flesheaters a chance and just decided to mow them down. This does not explain why there is no effort to provide basic humanitarian aid and the Jedi Council is content to sit back and just let the Flesheaters tear them apart. If they don't want to endorse this splinter group just moving into their space (note the Jedi did the same thing to the Flesheaters) and set a precedent that could come back to haunt the Republic later on, they should airlift them out. Basically your point conveys that they're not Republic so so their ideals don't apply, Whether it's the Republic government or the Jedi Order itself. If they want to keep Yavin a secluded Jedi incubator, the best solution, if they care at all about the most basic ideals of their order and the society they pledged to protect, is to help them relocate to another world in the Republic.

Based on his fighting style, I agree with Maul as a marauder. While he's dressed in the robes of an assassin, and carries the doublebladed saber, he never showed that he incorporated any mastery of force lightning into his attacks. A poster above regards Boba Fett as a Powertech. Certainly there's not the discrepancy between fighting style of one class and the gear of another as with Maul, but I always saw Boba Fett as a mercenary.

Rolled a Jedi knight (eventually guardian) last week, and after my first couple missions on the beginning planet Tython, I've noticed some genuine xenophobic and hypocritical behavior that runs directly against Jedi teachings, as either inferred or plainly stated within the game. This involves how the Jedi treat the indigenous Flesheaters and a settlement of Twi'lek refugees. The flesheaters, as mentioned above, are indigenous to Tython. The Jedi landed and built their temple and training facilities there and have been in conflict with these primitive but sentient tribes for some time. The flesheaters view them as invaders and are acting to remove them from their home. As the story continues, its apparent the Jedi simply landed and moved right in without any sort of diplomatic overtures to the natives, nor any offers of technology, medicine, education, alliance, etc. In fact, in dialogues with Jedi masters, the natives are entirely disregarded as even people because they are not technologically advanced. The solution in dealing with their backlash is to simply kill them, perpetuating a violent cycle that they started. The Twi'leks on the planet are religious refugees and are already a race that has been oppressed and enslaved for generations. The Jedi reaction to this community is at best indifference. The flesheaters attack the Twi'leks and the Jedi don't care to lift a finger to help them, concerned at the outset only with covering their own butts. Also, there is no effort in the form of relief such as medicines, the means to resettle on another world, or equipment to help them more rapidly build their infrastructure. The Jedi regard their settlement as illegal and encroaching on their territory. The Jedi are supposed to stand for the freedom of democracy, as the protectors of freedom and the helpless. The order, like the republic are supposed to strive for tolerance and embrace multispecies diversity. We see none of that here on Tython in Part 1. If anything their behavior is borderline Sith in how they deal with the natives and the refugee camp. If nothing else, you can say the Sith are more up front and honest about their elitism and their gunhand diplomacy. What do you some of you folks think?

I conveyed this in another thread, but seeing this last night in pvp in light of those who feel entitled to leave wz's without penalty because they're allegedly so awesome it's appropriate to recount here too. I get into Civil War, waiting for the speeder to pop up with 3 other random players and another "awesome" 4-man premade of "LeetProHardcores." One of them, the ops leader says "Group 2 go left." I ask our Ops leader who is in group 2. He doesn't really answer but says "go right." I figure that means I'm in the group going right. Evidently that was correct, more or less. I and another guy went right. We capped the grass node. Everybody that went to the snow node, evidently didn't do so hot, so we had split nodes with a neutral middle. So what happens next? I'm alone at the grass node and I see 2 enemies approaching. I immediately type "2 snow." Suddenly our awesome premades decide to quit. Barely 2 minutes in and they're gone. Next thing you know one of the other pugs leaves too. It's 3 on 8 and here come those 2 guys and one more. And yes, I died. They cap all three, but the rest of the randoms that flooded in made a solid effort to at least not get swept and took away the middle. The above crap with these "Hardcore" pvp'ers is why 30 minutes unable to queue is totally fair. Add that on top of the normal wait you usually expect on a busy weekend evening and that's something that will make some of these "pro" babyragers think twice about bailing when the game is still up for grabs. I'm curious what these "great" players who like to thump their chests here and justify quitting when the other players aren't up to their standards will do once ranked hits and things don't pan out for them like they hoped.

Most servers do not have either the balance or the overall population to make this a reality. Now that the reward structure has been fixed, there should be a 30 minute wait penalty before you can queue again. That'll solve much of it. Why? Yet again this scenario played out. I get into Civil War, waiting for the speeder to pop up with 3 other random players and another "awesome" 4-man premade of "LeetProHardcores." One of them, the ops leader says "Group 2 go left." I ask our Ops leader who is in group 2. He doesn't really answer but says "go right." I figure that means I'm in the group going right. Evidently that was correct, more or less. I and another guy went right. We capped the grass node. Everybody that went to the snow node, evidently didn't do so hot, so we had split nodes with a neutral middle. So what happens next? I'm alone at the grass node and I see 2 enemies approaching. I immediately type "2 snow." Suddenly our awesome premades decide to quit. Barely 2 minutes in and they're gone. Next thing you know one of the other pugs leaves too. It's 3 on 8 and here come those 2 guys and one more. And yes, I died. They cap all three, but the rest of the randoms that flooded in made a solid effort to at least not get swept and took away the middle. The above crap with these "Hardcore" pvp'ers is why 30 minutes unable to queue is totally fair. Add that on top of the normal wait you usually expect on a busy weekend evening and that's something that will make some of these "pro" babyragers think twice about bailing when the game is still up for grabs. I'm curious what these "great" players who like to thump their chests here and justify quitting when the other players aren't up to their standards will do once ranked hits.

Macros violate the ToS. Guess we found another speedhacker maybe?:-P

The tactical placement is not the point of my reply. When did acting like you're entitled to take a huge **** on others become relevant? You've shown me you dispaly poor leadership in this game's context. People who "refuse to listen" and you justify that crap. I live and work in the real world like everyone else. You don't get far with that johnny lockerroom self appointed leader rhetoric and justifications for it. People that do in their careers are usually being buoyed by a spouse, relative or friend above them. People that treat others as you do, especially when unpleasant things occur, usually end up stagnating. I've worked as a machinist in fiberoptics and coax manufacturing for over a decade, and I don't work in an environment where politeness is the order of the day, but the kind of rhetoric you endorse and practice here would get you nothing in my workplace but a fat stack of disciplinary action reports in your file.

Uh, and I have the right to not reinforce that johnny lockerroom leader horsecrap. Talk like that to me or anyone else on your team i will stop immediately and farm medals on my butt at a turret. You must be one of the leetpros i cited in my original post.