./facepalm. PS : Expertize is the epitomize of carebear.

I will soon publish an article explaining with short and simple words that : 1 - Strongly PvP-oriented players should find another game to spend their IRL credats because this is a PvE game with a PvP minigame 2 - Using words like "crying" on the forums is double-edged, first because by complaining about criers, you're crying yourself, second because being offencive towards (sorry about stating it so bluntly) the majority is the surest way for the majority to not give a dumb duck about your QQ and to tell you to go tell someone who cares and has some tissue to hand you out. 3 - By the overall tone of your post, you seem to be contemptful about PvE, what do you care about how your awesome PvP stuff perform in PvE then? 4 - The french forums are for teens. 5 - Bolster is not the trouble, Expertise is, because Expertise is for carebears and illiterates unable to spell the word "twink". 6 - If Bioware cared about PvP, we would know by now. Call my assistant or 9-whine-whine if you need some more psychological help.

Trasher changes I consider mostly a bug fix. But DG's nerf is definitely a loss. Bioware is taking away from us what was prolly the best fight I have experienced in that game to this day (though I can't wait to discover Styrak...).

I think I saw a T-shirt like that once "I PISS EXCELLENCE!". Gogogo convince Thinmintz to print a few with the SG logo in the back!

j00 wish

Raid quality is relative. If you propose different stuff for different activities, and if you implement it well, you will give an incentive for players to play PvE and PvP to reach their ideal setup. Taking again AO as an exemple, BiS PvE and BiS PvP gears were a mix match of PvE and PvP stuff. The choices you had were infinitely wider than what SWTOR propose, because there was a synergy between gears and basically a huge array of possibilities, from overall buff to very specialized setups.

This is exactly the opposite. They need to kick out expertise, remove bolster, turn back from different itemization/different system and go back to the old healthy different itemization/same system. PvP rewards and PvE rewards would be synergetic = more diversity, more choices, more setups, more incentive to play both sides, less incentive to post stupid threads implying that PvErs are responsible for your misfortune. The blame is on Bioware and EA for copying Wow instead of inspiring themselves from the old "twinking" concept (Anarchy Online anyone?) til they got cold feet seeing how their PvP-oriented players would leave if PvP did not run. You don't slaughter a cow that gives milk.

Other, older games proved that items could be different and compatible. That would be a sudden, unexpected and refreshing way for more diversity, more choices, more setups. Different set of items in the same system instead of different items in different systems.

Gratz to you Severity Gaming, it appears that Trasher hasn't been to you the wall that it is been to the rest of us. You literally Chris Froomed S&V Nim! Now, piss in that bottle, wanna know what you're on!

Yea, another Tier, how original and surprising. Vertical progression : the easy way to easy cash for Bioware and EA. Recipe : 1 - create 4 new armor mesh (preferably ugly and which will be implemented in 2 colors for the lulz) 2 - take the most recent Tier and a calculator. Then, slap 5% better stats. 3 - Implement. 3 bis - Update Bolster, without forgetting to introduce new bugs 3 ter - Implement fixes to these bugs and present them as awesome new features of upcoming patches. 4 - cash in subscriptions. EDIT : I forgot an important step 5 - Let it dry 1 month, then rince and repeat.

Bolster is buggy, there's no denying it. But Bolster is a symptom of something deeper. It's a bandaid to a PvP system that is flawed because of the separated itemization and of Expertize. Let's be blunt clear : as long as PvP mechanics revolve around this system, there will be no stability and no consensus. Like, ever. Separated itemization creates a double standard that can't reconcile the different orientations of the playerbase and is toxic to a community spirit. Persisting in this way, as Bioware and EA are predictably going to do, is the certitude of a failure.

Preliminary comment : I won’t delve on the place and importance of PvP in this game and more particularly on PvP servers, but to be blunt clear, I consider it to be a minigame in its current implementation. We might agree or disagree on that point, but I think the majority will at least settle with me that PvP could be much more interesting, stakes-bearing, wide-spread and community-binding than it is. I will leave it at that, as it is not the aim of this thread, but I wanted to impress upon the readers that even though the core of my ingame activity is atm devoted to PvE, my natural inclination would have been, in other circumstances, to mix my game time a lot more, probably with more PvP than PvE. That said… Since the new Bolster has been out, it would be an understatement to say it received a cool welcome. Beyond the pros and the cons, it led to the multiplication of more or less inspired threads from cons to extend it to PvE (trollings obviously, but anyway…) and to be frank, it seems a lot like the PvP mob hold the PvE crowd responsible for their unfortune. This is a short-sighted mistake. The underlying, fundamental, problem has a name : Expertise. Bioware decided to copy WoW even in its most retarded features and Expertise is probably the silliest of them. They added injure to offence as Expertise only grew stronger and more powerful as patches and updates were implemented. Until they came with this bandaid on a wooden leg called Bolster : they dug a rift between PvE and PvP mechanics through an artificial “skill”, to a point where they add to introduce a not less artificial blanket-feature to try (and fail) at bridging the two worlds. In the making, they managed to anger a good portion of the PvP-oriented community, as that bridge is only one-way. An even more pernicious, sly side-effect is that this bandaid obviously concern only the battle grounds, which might or might not be the sign that outdoor, wild pvp is not much of Bioware concerns and probably won’t be in the near future, if ever. Bolster is the symptom of a, for lack of a better term, flawed philosophy. The starting point was to separate, through Expertise-bearing gear, PvE and PvP, to double the time needed to profit from the two aspects of the game, cutting players from content if they did not devote game time (and obviously subscription time) to both, milking players in the making. Then, they realized PvP would starve (and PvPer would leave with their IRL credats) if new blood did not come and tadaaaa, Bolster. Which was implemented perfectly (yea… right, that one was obvious…). Conclusion : double standard based on the all-powerful Expertise is an abysmal failure. Now the good news : there is another way. And this is nothing new, as it was there before any twisted Marketing & Sales director mind came with the silly idea of Expertise, Resilience or whatever the name it may have been known under beforehand. It can be summed up in a few words : choices, twinking, horizontal progression, cross-boundaries resources. I would have added Pie and Cookies, but it I will try to not self-derail. Choices : no Mounty Hall powerhouses, now if you decide to invest heavily in a skill, it will be detrimental to other skills. Pick your poison. Twinking : choose your gameplay and decide what combinaison of gear is the best for you, but this time you will have to think about it for more than just a glance. More choices = more possibilities to match your game style and ideal setup = more diversity. Horizontal progression: the contrary of Vertical progression. Vertical progression is what Bioware has been feeding us with since launch : Tiers upon Tiers upon Tiers ad nauseam, higher, better, stronger w00t...not. Horizontal progression is more variables to play with, new options and a wider array of choices to ponder. Cross-boundaries : being PvP-only or PvE-only is being hemiplegic. You can live very well with hemiplegia as long as you don’t mind saliva on your shirt. You won’t achieve BiS by focusing on just one or another part of the game. BiS gear will be the reward for those that devoted time to both (it doesn’t have to be 50/50 time, but it must be significant). I consider as irrelevant the argument that erasing Expertise would make X, Y or Z too powerful. First because by the look of the PvP forums, Expertise doesn’t fulfill its role if it was ever supposed to be a balancing factor. Second, because it’s better to have hard-coded universal limitations (the kind of Trauma’s, in other games, there were hard-coded rules like “dmg is capped at x% of a target’s max health, no single heal can restore more than x% of one’s health, etc…) if such limitations were deemed necessary. The basics: PvP-acquired gear is sufficient to PvP in a satisfactory manner, but a full set is not BiS. PvE-acquired gear is sufficient to PvE in a satisfactory manner, but a full set is not BiS. PvP BiS stats are obtainable only through a mix-match of PvP and PvE pieces. PvE BiS stats are obtainable only through a mix-match of PvE and PvP pieces. An exemple of a what a new PvE and PvP itemization could be (focus on the principle, not the numbers, I pulled them from my youknowwhat, it’s not my job to theorycraft it): Relics : PvP-obtained Relics are of the “solid, passive buffs” type PvE-obtained Relics are of the “proc’n click” type Traditionally modifiable gear: PvE-obtained gear remains as is, with the stats distribution we know nowadays. PvP-obtained gear propose parts with alternative skill distribution and new options : - Armorings/Hilts/Barrels : higher Armor/Damages Rating than PvE, lower Primary Skill than PvE - Modifications : either boosted Primary Skill (about 50-60%% more than PvE unlettered?) OR boosted Secondary Skill (100% more than PvE?) OR a flat +1% buff to Crit chance, Shield chance, Defense... - Enhancements : either boosted Secondary skill (100% more than PvE?) OR boosted Tertiary skill+a new bonus OR a flat +1% buff to Surge, Activation Time, Absorb, Accuracy…+a new bonus. - New bonus : The “boosted Tertiare skill” and “flat bonus” versions could come with a bonus to a new variable which could be one of the followings (but not limited to): +% run speed, CC duration reduction, accelerated health delta (natural regeneration), accelerated resource regeneration (Force, Heat…). They can stack up or add up, according to the bonus type. Ear and Implants: Primary skills are like PvE’s. The array is decomposed in ear/implants with - boosted Secondary skill and no Tertiary skill; - no Secondary Skill but boosted Tertiary+new bonus - flat buff+new bonus. My 2 cents.

I'm the real boss, I just can't care enough to post pics'n stuff. /Irock mode off Edit <3 Nib'

Frog : boss 2 down, pics incoming.

Frog : 1st boss down Pics incoming PS : no PTS.

Because we rock your pants and we do it 4 teh lulz. OT : denying PvP is a minigame is... denial.

Omg, not even worth 0/5. You pvp sissies should really coordinate yourself better on the forums, we are still in Resolve from Schwartz's or whatever his name was thread on the same non-topic. If you don't like your minigame anymore, unsuscribe. /thread

I think my GM will pardon me for going ahead and say we're also 110% against skipping boss. I am pretty sure this won't even be a subject in this progression race. Edit : ninjaed by Mana :/

I'm sure it will have way more impact than the other 36 threads on the same topic *rolleyes* Defining oneself as PvPer or PvEr is being hemiplegic. I would rather stay whole, thank you very much. As it stands, I'm sorry for the state of PvP in this game, so far from what it could have been. Til huge changes are brought (erasing Expertise, implementing side vs side openworld pvp, consequences for loss and wins at a faction level...), PvP is a mere minigame. @Smuglebunny : there are PvP servers to milk the pvp-interested population and you said it yourself : you wouldn't pay if there wasn't some pvp...

Someone plays a minigame worth about 0.5% of the content and thinks he ought to be spoonfed the remaining 99.5%. Funny. I give it 1/5, try to find something original by yourself next time.

The only way to make PvP worth mentioning in SWTOR would have been to implement Side vs Side planet-based, level-bracketed PvP in the first year of existence of the game. Now, populations are way too unbalanced between factions to even bother, not to mention the technical limitations as soon as more than 40 players are in the same area. Quite ironically, the brackets between lvl 1 and 45 would have been the most fun of all without the silly Expertise, without Tiers upon Tiers of endgame gear and with a semblance of twinking based upon Crewskill crafts. I'm afraid PvP is condemned to remain a mini-game inside the game as long as there's nothing to look for but closed environments disconnected from what is supposed to be an epic conflict between interstellar forces. Moreover, it won't appeal to the majority as long as it remains without any consequences nor rewards, at individual level, faction level and on a server scale.

It's cool, just wanted it to be clear and for everyone to see. Sorry if I singled you out, Ariss, it just felt wrong that FROG name was dragged in that mess.

Wheter his now gone signature was true or fake, I have no idea. What's for sure is that FROG is not even remotely close for having any tie, link or relationship with that retard. Our GM already ackowledged publicly Severity Gaming's first place in this very thread and no one from FROG is discussing or arguing, publicly or in private, on the legit nature of SG' world first. I hope I was clear enough on that matter. EDIT : Ariss, dude, before you starts the fingers pointing, maybe just do a quick search on Battosei previous posts, I think it would have been very enlightening.

I will refrain from giving a long and boring answer, I suggest you take a look at Nibbon's thread on the Sage forums and at Orderken's compendium on mmo-mechanics.com, they argued the issue in length and reached some kind of consensus, even though their approaches are different. Before I answer, two notices: 1) We all came to the conclusion that there were very few chances that anyone could so horribly fail his itemization and skilltree that he would be unable to fill his role as a healer in a group in most occurences. You can go full Surge and still be able to complete most operations (and I know some did it with a manner of success). 2) Maths are one thing, using them is another. Pick an itemization that suits your healing routines and habits and/or the role you are given in your group. My tl,dr answer anyway in a few bulletpoints : - Highest volume of heal is based on HPCT (Health Per Cast Time). The closer you are to the maximum HPCT of your abilities, the closer you are from the perfect balance between Alacrity and Surge. - Innervate, FB-Innervate and Dark Infusion, reach their highest HPCT values with an itemization leaning more on Alacrity than on Surge. - The nerf to Critical Rating is such that you lose more heal from trying to pump up higher numbers on your crits with Surge than just finishing your heal and start with the other a bit sooner with Alacrity. - A bit sooner + a bit sooner + a bit sooner + ... = in the same time laps, your total heal output is way higher. - Alacrity is good for channeled or casted abilities, but it's also good for instant abilities as it affects the GCD. - Static barrier doesn't benefit from Surge at all. - Alacrity works 100% of the time. Surge will work only on crits. If you push Surge you will want to trade some Power for some Crit. And then, in most cases, the heal loss on regular heals/ticks will be higher than the heal gained on Crits. - Accelerated Revivification will benefit from a higher amount of Surge, true. But comparing the highest average output of an accelerated Revivification (in 72 gear, 0 Alacrity, 790 Surge and 249 Crit rate, about 9786 hp/target over 10s) to the average output in the described setup (553 Alacrity, 237 Surge, 0 crit, about 9509 hp/target over 10s), it comes down to about 28 hp/s/target. Not quite enough to compensate the huge loss of HPCT on Innervate, FB-Innervate or Dark infusion. - Finally, we agreed that there was not much difference between 7/10 and 6/10 Alacrity setups but we also agreed on 0 Power being the way to go. if you feel like trusting us but hate having your Surge score under 300, you can't go wrong by going toward a more balanced 6/10 Alacrity distribution.

Nay, not for such an half-*****ed retort. That's barely worth 1/5 and i'm generous, but I did not get my 3rd coffee yet and don't feel like launching in a full-fledged PvEr vs PvPr forum war right now so I figured I would just mention my trollscanner had stirred out of sleep mode on reading the OP.