~40k damage isn't globaling fam.

not in pvp.

I actually think things like slows and knockbacks are much more obnoxious to fight against in PVP. I do think that the whitebar period should be ~2x as long, and that CC breaks should be a little shorter (or they should just remove all passive CC), but crippling slice is rarely usable as a "stun", you have to be in a TINY, PERFECT angle directly behind your target that is nearly impossible to achieve due to various latency issues, or even the game just not showing a target facing the way they actually are.

Goodness, a single scoundrel!

..Not if you're whitebarred by the two stuns. I highly doubt there are groups of operatives running around, crippling slicing people all in order to maximize CC on one target. And even if there are, 4 players of pretty much any other class are going to be worse. It's not the CC that's going to kill you. I haven't seen an operative use that opener since 4.0. Since we lost snipe, it's not even worth doing. The only reason that opener was good was because of the extra ~10k hits from snipe. But yes, I think that sort of thing is why the people who think operatives are OP think that way. It's ignorance.

Well, *Guard is insanely powerful, not tanks themselves. If you have a competent healer with guard on them in a huttball, the only way you are going to kill either of them (one is usually carrying the ball) is by CCing them in a trap.

wat? Any tank with sorc healer is insanely powerful. Sorcs are the binding force here though, the pull is immensely strong.

PT is actually the only class that can literally hardstun you for 8(?) seconds (with utility). And engi snipers actually have a better CC kit than ops lmao. It's just crying bads that don't understand how the class works. Every person who I've seen QQ about ops, once they play them, they stop crying.

I dunno about op healers, but if they buff or nerf the DPS specs too much without reworking their defensives into something more passive, it could end up breaking the class. The way they've built Operatives since 2.0 has put balancing them into a very tricky position. The effective DPS output in a "normal" PVP fight is already garbage, if they nerf us because of our potential DPS numbers, it will look ugly. And if they give us buffs without changing some of our DCDs, we may end up being the new marauders.

You mean all two of them before you're whitebarred? I mean yeah, no one should survive 3-4 stealthers ganking them by themselves, but.. the cc isn't the issue here, lol.

Scoundrel/Operative DPS numbers have been known to bug out on some of our dots and combine the total damage on the scoreboard. I've gotten 40k biggest hits in Lethality (without the reflect utility) which is literally impossible.

I'd like bolster to be as high as possible. No one plays PVP in order to get a satisfaction of gearing their character, they spend time gearing because it's a necessity. Let the PVE-ers play the RNG gearing game. I'd even be okay with them reducing the amount of CXP earned from warzones if they made components legacy-wide and had the bolster only a few levels lower than the highest tier of gear. That way, PVE-ers wouldn't feel like they needed to PVP to get gear quick, and PVPers wouldn't need to worry about gearing as much.

Huh. Over here, it's most often just me and a friend queueing as dps ops impside, with the occasional rando. Pubside has a few scoundrels that queue but not many. Usually, the sort of ops and scoundrels I see are the kind I could 1v2 on my marauder, so...

I'd argue that an Annihilation marauder is actually better suited to fight a mercenary than a DPS operative, haha.

How many concealment ops even queue regularly? On TEH I can pvp for 4-5 hours and only see like 2 other ops..

I dunno, if you know how to kite well enough as a merc, and layer your DCDs properly, Concealment literally does not have enough damage to take out a merc in that ~30 second window you have where their DCDs are off CD. The only time I've been able to beat a merc in that window the first time was if I was taking the evasion reflect and I managed to get a 40k heatseeker back on them.

Yeah, they CAN win those 1v1s, but it's not easy. A half decent merc puts up a good fight, and some mediocre snipers can be a huge pain to 1v1. Also, parsing is irrelevant in PVP. Operative DPS has super high DPS potential, as do operative healers with HPS, but due to the nature of their abilities and DCDs, they will never achieve that potential in an actual PVP fight.

No, I want to be able to survive with my skill and then have the damage to back it up. I used to be able to literally 3-shot people in ~2.8 if they didn't react quick enough. Ops have very good active survivability now, but when you're done rolling around.. nothing really happens. You rarely have that cool counter-attack moment against someone that you used to. I want some DCDs that don't require me to completely stop attacking, or require me to kite and LoS to heal. Either that, or less passive DCDs and also considerably more damage (which of course would make the community explode when a good op is able to 1v1 them easily). This is how good operative damage used to be. We had completely garbage survivability at this point, too.

I'd rather us have actual survivability and damage instead of trolling DCDs and burst that makes healers lol.

Utilities are essentially the same thing WoW has with their spec talents.

Well actually, now that I think about it, yeah, fury is better. I was saying Anni for the LoSing during dot phases, but those same dots will also end up healing the sniper under their bubble shield heal or whatever.

Yeah, and snipers are not nearly as difficult to play as sniper players make it out to be. It's not quite as braindead as arsenal, but it's extremely easy to neuter melee as a sniper. Really, the only class that has a significant chance against a sniper in a 1v1 is like.. an Annihilation marauder (if there's something to LoS around). I don't think I could beat an equally skilled engi sniper on my op.

I was thinking about this the other night, and I think it'd be interesting if they removed all the "damage" from Mastery and buffed Power to compensate. No sense in complicating things with 2 stats when Mastery and Power do essentially the same thing (not to mention the bonus crit from Mastery doesn't apply to your crit multiplier, either). This way, they could have a second way to balance all roles and specs simultaneously without having to go in and tweak a bunch of passives. This would essentially just be another passive that you could stack if your playstyle required it, but I'm sure the devs could find a way to make it work well. They could fix skanktanks without overbuffing tank stats by making Mastery increase a certain "tanky" passive for each of the tank disciplines without increasing their damage output. For instance: for Juggernaut Tanks, mastery would increase the damage reduction % the class had (or something). At the same time, the devs could also drastically reduce the amount of DPS stats on the tank armorings. This way, tank gear would be worth something to a tank again, without giving them the ability to put out retarded DPS. I can literally have 40% of my HP taken out by a skanktank jugg in 1-2 GCDs, which is absolutely insane given their very, very strong DCDs. I'm not really sure what all the passive % increases would be, but it'd basically be similar to how WoW's weapon mastery works. But to give some examples of what Mastery could do for different specs: Medicine Operative Mastery: Decreases damage taken while incapacitated by <x> percent. Deception Assassin Mastery: Increases the damage done by your melee attacks by <x> percent. Lethality Operative Mastery: Increases the follow-up hits of your Corrosive Assault by <x> percent. Fury Marauder Mastery: Increases the damage of Force attacks by <x> percent. Corruption Sorceror Mastery: Increases the healing of all single-target abilities by <x> percent (not including roaming mend lul). But yeah, I'm no theorycrafter but you guys get the idea of what they could do with this. As Warrior said below, they could also make this have different effects for PVP and PVE without completely redoing every spec's passive for that.

Ops will be FOTM when they get defensives that don't require you to spend half the time rolling around accomplishing nothing but surviving.

It's annoying because you usually need very, very little interference to get more HPS on an op. Like, assuming both healers are taking equal tunneling, I think the sorc will most often out heal the op.