I just love non operatives trying to make out ops are fine in huttball.. Utter joke. Flash bang you say? Err it breaks on damage.... Useless on a ball carrier. Ops have zero utility worth using in hb... Add to that hb has to be the worst wz for cheating scum. The amount of speeding people... stuttering to the end zone is embarrassing. Huttball is ALL the class not skill... If you think otherwise you are a force user and full of it.

I hate to say it but .. No I would not be playing if this was not star wars. Quite simply this game has nothing new.. It has fallen into the same trap as rift. I have not moved off the IF in weeks.. Just waiting for wz to pop to grind gear for the next wz. It's near mind numbing. If I didn't have rl friends playing I wouldn't be playing. It's not NASA science to realise pvp'ers want open world pvp... Warzones are 0.o.. The single worst new mmo feature ever. As soon as the release date is announced for a certain other mmo I will be cancelling my swtor account.

So much misinformation in this thread it's just laughable. To the OP - ops did not get a 5% buff. A 13k op is not "critting you" for 4k... He may have once got a single crit for 4k. At this point you still have 1k health more than him and he has used his single by far biggest hit. If you lose that fight I think we all know where the problem lies. Now let's talk facts here... Ie with combat logs I have posted.. Not anecdotal evidence... Not what you think you may have seen and not mouse over guessing at what the person is wearing. As a 1200+ expertise full bm + WH gear I average 2.2k with hidden strike... Yes you read that right 2.2k. That is our biggest hit from stealth. Next up is back stab... Requires positional and has had a 33% Nerf by putting it on a 12s cd. That is lucky to break 2k average... So with my biggest two hits I am lucky to get you to the same health as me and I am in far better gear than you. Ops have been seriously been nerfed with no utility, no added survivability, the only way an op is any threat is by seriously out gearing the opposition and their major defensive CDs being down. If you lose to one any other way you are a poor player. Ops have left concealment in droves and gone healing for a very good reason. If you dispute what I say post your log parse, otherwise your opinion is mere opinion and irrelevant.

I left Rift because all I was doing was sitting in sanctum waiting for a warfront to pop, to grind gear, to help me in the next warfront and hoping I wasn't up against this months fotm. Because there was no open world pvp and content was easy and boring. 5 months later .. Rift = swtor Sanctum = imperial fleet Warfront = warzone.

I remodded my gear for power /surge and did slightly less damage and died even faster due to the lack of expertise. To the op... It's probably just bad luck due to the quality of the opposition and the fact everyone has massive expertise now.

Here is an example of dropping out of stealth. I was in void star and died... Full timer... I go into stealth and drop down and go left. No one is there... I then hide in the corner... Still no one.. Cast nothing... The other team then plant the bomb right...the timer gets to about 3s and I pop out of stealth........ So I must have no cast anything on anyone for about 45s yet I come out stealth probably 70m from anyone. I checked my buffs... I had nothing... I had not even targeted anyone since reviving. Just sooooooooo annoying. Every one seems to be able to see me from miles away.. So I suppose I might as well not be in stealth!!

Concealment spec ops have been nerfed into oblivion. I have ACT parses to prove what damage we now do, just go to the ops forum as I am not reposting. I don't work with speculation or anecdotal evidence. Pure facts. I have posted stats on a full bm concealment op with 1100 + expertise averaging our biggest opener for 2200. 2200 absolutely shameful. Our second biggest hit on a 12s cd is 1800 average. As some one else has posted a full rotation burning all our energy averages 8500 damage. All you people saying "they're beasts and still stun lock me to death" are clearly wearing a see through negligee for armour. I have popped relic, attack stim and the wz power surge taking my bonus damage to 1k and used my hidden strike on a trooper and hit for..... 607... Six hundredanpd****ingseven.... Don't give me "pick other targets". So our damage sucks and our energy empties in one open rotation.... Do we get ANY utility? No... We just melt. I am sure I will get "l2p" "you suck as others are still God like" but unless you post actual parse data as I have over a decent number of wz you are simply lying. Amazingly I have challenged anyone who claims ops concealment to post creditable parse data as I have.... No one has... Not a single person.. Surprising that.

I have to agree with sammuel... I see very few concealment ops now. For the first few days after 1.2 I used to see a few and it was a great way of measuring my results against theirs. But I only see healers and hybrids. Last night I ran ACT over a few wz and the figures were the same so I slotted my old power gear to get the crit multiplier up... My damage went down slightly and I just melted faster. So until some one can prove otherwise with stats, parses and rotation I have gone hybrid - I might even go full heals. It's a shame as I wanted to be a dps class. I can not be bothered to reroll so I need to find a way of making the game less frustrating. All those of you who will inevitably say "l2p" you either face very poor opposition or your expectations are far lower than mine. I doubt BW give a damn but they have killed ops in my opinion.. Unsubbing come release day of a certain other mmo won't be a sad day.

Why do you keep going on about burst or sustained? You brought this up and it has nothing at all to do with the subject in the thread. So post your stats and a 10 wz streak. We can then analyse your figures and people can draw their own conclusions. I have... Amazingling people who claim the class is fine have not. Wz scoreboard is not indicative of the concealment spec... Parses with full breakdown are.

This has nothing to do with burst or sustained. Like any survey the greater volume of data the more accurate the info. I could post stats of one wz that make me look über..ten? Not so easy to "fake". We/I am far more interested in average numbers... They show the quality of opposition. If your gear is worse but your numbers are better your targets are in worse gear. Honestly what I want is some to post great numbers and then show what their stats are and how they are getting better numbers.. Ie by slotting better stats etc... That's what this forum is for - to improve all ops and not for trying to brag how great I might think I am with zero data.

That's cool... But clearly you were up against a team of healers... 400k damage and only 11 kills? You took barely any damage and won 600 - 0. That's what I am referring to about quality of opposition. They couldn't even cap a turret.... That's not a good team. I don't doubt big numbers are possible but not against a team even half decent. 400k and only 11 kills shows you were struggling to burn anyone down. Your second highest damage dealer 330k killed 2 people.... That's not good. Please run ACT and post numbers of 10 wz. As I have said before... Not because I don't believe people it will just show a very good break down and damage... Min/max and average are great indicators. E.g if you posted this wz of 400k we would see where your damage was coming from.. If it was big bs/HS it would make me wonder why you only got 11 kills... Where as big aoe numbers tells us the healers were all standing together not dying.

As stated that is 105 power not an entire wz of ca's. What I was trying to demonstrate is what damage you can do before you have to start blowing other instas that are not constantly available. I.e why people are complaining about energy starvation.

Ignore this person and all other comments associated with his belief, because this is a BS issue. See what I did there?

What server are you on? I am tofn with 1103 expertise and I have seen no concealment op do over 300k in any wz since 1.2. I have seen one lethality get 340k. I play about 10-12 wz per night, i used to get 320-340k in a hb with 4-6 1v1 kills. Now in hb if I break 220k I am doing well, I have got one 1v1 medal since the patch. Please install ACT and run it over a few wz and post your stats... Not that I don't believe you I'd just like to see what you are hitting for with lesser gear than me. I can only think that your opposition is in lesser gear than the ones if face.

I am more surprised when it does work now.

Well I ran ACT over 8 wz tonight. For the record I am full bm, with 1103 expertise. My average HS hit was 2285. That's 164 swings with 43% crit rate and highest hit of 4456. So my biggest opener now averages 2285.... For all you people saying our dps has not been nerfed...well it has... And by a mile. at one stage I dropped my attack adrenal, relic and power surge wz buff and hit a trooper for 607. I can not tell you how pathetic playing concealment is now. Because I am now continually starved of energy I have to revert to rifle shot.. Which averages a whopping 295. It's barely worth the effort moving my thumb to click it. Let's look at a decent rotation with average damage Ab - 361 HS - 2285 Bs - 2084 Deb - 443 Shiv - 1400 Lac x2 - 2735 That is your 105 power and you have averaged about 8.5k damage. *** has 8.5k health? Oh yeah now you spam rifle shot for 295 a pop until your power comes back up. Honestly concealment is now the kid who gets picked last at sport. I know I am going to get "l2p" and "I do just fine and I am in centurion gear" but unless you can post ACT numbers here to back up your claim then don't bother. (at least 5 wz). BW - you have royally screwed over Ops... Is this how the class is intended? My guess is they don't want non light saber chars out gunning them.. Nerf them to oblivion. Add dire dps to near zero utility you have a class that is painful to play. Name a class worried about ops ? Zip... Nada... None..nish... /rant over. :mad: :mad:

As an op I would love to see this change.... ... As long as I do 300% more damage when out of stealth. Seems fair.

Got to say when I see these replies about doing decent damage now I have to wonder on the quality of opposition you guys are facing. You will know when you hit some one in cack gear I.e. not running expertise gear but once you start fighting people properly equipped you won't be so eager. I am full bm with expertise around 1100.. I am running ACTwith swtor plug in on a G19 so I know exactly what I am hitting for. No guessing... No looking at wz scoreboard at the end to guess.. No seeing a big hit and thinking "ooh I hit hard". Quite simply you will see a major reduction in damage and especially spike damage. It is now to the point that my bs is doing more damage then my HS.. Why? Bubbles... Every decent team you will face will have everyone bubbled and your HS opening will hit like a wet noodle. Before you could double pop it and get some return on the second hit. It is not uncommon for me to hit and have it all absorbed or for it to hit for less then 1k. Yes you will find badly geared people and feel tough but I am talking about decent pvp here... Equally geared players. As I said before I usually got a 5k medal probably 4 out of 5 wz..now? Probably 1 in 20. And any one on here who wants to say ops concealment spec is fine.. Load up ACT and post some wz parses.. Let's say 10 wz... We can then see who is telling the truth. Concealment now is at the very bottom of the pile.

I have been dropping out of stealth + taking ages to get into stealth from combat. I thought it was just me so not been taking much notice of what has caused it,I know the last time i dropped out i had nothing running. I have taken up to 30s to get into combat after 1.2. The next time this happens I will take more notice of what I have running to confirm.

I think everyone's damage has been adjusted but I just think that has hurt ops the most as that is literally all they have, huge opening burst from stealth with stuns. The 12s cd on bs now seems to really effect the rotation. There is a drop in burst damage after about 4/5 ca's which allows the target to recover. It's that ability to apply pressure I was referring to. It feels like I am looking for a ca to use instead of flowing nicely. Maybe I just need to work the rotation more but I am seriously of moving away from conceal now. Shame as I normally run pugs (80% of the time) and I was feeling the op in conceal with proper slotted gear was just about useful.

Just thought I'd post my thoughts on concealment in 1.2. I know there are other threads going but I feel it may get lost on page 6/7/8 etc I am full bm rank 72 valour and my experience is now I just don't seem to have awesome burst dps. Pre 1.2 I would usually get 2-5 solo kills in a wz. Now? I am lucky to get one. My HS would 3 out 4 wz get me a 5k medal. If I get 4k+ hit now it is a rarity. Yes I know a double HS was seen as unfair but I quite often used it to burn a bubble then drop it again to get the person on the defensive. Now I pop it... Lucky to get 1k and by the time it is available again they have a bubble back up. I find it a lot harder to pressure. My dps is high compared to others but I am noticing my lack of utility is hurting me now, I die probably 4/5 in a wz where as I used to be 1/2 times. Because of the lack of ability to really pressure other classes are easily keeping me off them now. I may go back and try healing or look good on the wz scoreboard and go lethality. For now... I think concealment is "just" not good enough.. Back to a support class of hiding and waiting to find the person at 60% to finish them instead of seeking out stragglers/healers and 1v1 them to dead.

Epic failure by BW/EA etc etc amazing timing.. Delay a major feature due to inadequacies the day after GW2 early release sign up goes live. I wonder how many people read this news and will think "enough is enough - GW2 here I come". This is another nailin the coffin of a game that should have been a market leader... The fat lady is clearing her throat.

This is THE funniest whine ever and needs a sticky. Premade moaning at not winning. It's beyond words of how funny this is. So premades pretty well ruin every single wz for a pug and you smash one again but totally and utterly fail at doing the objective and lose... The pug deserved 28 wins not one. Please go back to your premade and explain on the character select screen that there is a delete option. Use it. That screen shot is epic and just needs six words on it "PREMADE - you are doing it wrong"

You can keep your force skills as long as I can carry the ball in stealth.

Huttball is ALL about classes. That's why the wz is so cack. anyone who thinks otherwise is seriously deluded that they are skilful. Remove force run/leap/pull and it might be a decent game. But QQ's from the 80% of players now i.e all the jedis/siths mean it will never happen even tho that would bring some sort of balance to the wz. It's a poor wz that is defended by the classes it massively favours, if it never popped for me again I'd be over the moon. As it pops 70% of the time on my server ranked will be skewed to the force users.