Well said man. If anything what we need first are a couple talents. I would suggest at least Accuracy somewhere (surging charge stance maybe?) and a force crit chance increase. This would help A LOT with BiS'n ourselves. I have all 63's, except for my implants / earpieces. I recently had to take my power mods out and put back the black hole crit mods etc, simply because the crit rating everyone else needs - is subpar for us. We need HIGH crit for deception, but have nothing to help us with this. Why does carnage (a lot like deception) get an auto-crit force scream that hits just as hard as my disharge and maul...and it can be used every what..6 seconds or so? Where is our 'auto-crit' move? On the rage trees, i think it is critical hits with vicious slash etc reduce the cooldown of smash - why not give us something like that with blackout? That would help A LOT for sustained damage. First, please..hook us up with stat talents! Seriously, the other tank classes Jug and powertech, do they only have an endurance stat in their Tank tree? NO, they have crit / mainstat / etc... Do the devs not see a disparity here? EDIT: On the subject of Hazmat implants / earpieces...I notice one earpiece does have accuracy but it was 128 endurance and like 89 willpower...umm ok? The striker implants have ZERO accuracy, which means once i start getting those this week, I will have to start saving again to reverse engineer black hole stuff, spend lots of money transfering mods through legacy...so i can make some accuracy / crit or power enhancments....because the black hole ones we use have +57 on them. Teh heck?

I can hover in the 1800+ mark in deception (inf) for a solid 4 minutes or so, then it drops down to 1700ish. Still trying to tweak things, swapping mods around - taking power out, putting crit in. Taking crit out, putting power in...etc...without talents that every single other class has but us - passive mainstat boosts, accuracy and or crit...the deception / inf is a very hard spec to itemize. It frustrates me to no end that we lack these basic things

Operations are very much like the old side platform Megaman games - vs the boss, he has a pattern and you jump or duck there. I find it fun becase you do it in a 3d environment with 15 other people - and it is challenging because people really have to know their class, positioning and the like. PVP, on the other hand is a different style. I play both, and **** face in both lol. But lets be honest, this is an MMO...PVP does not take much skill. The rotations are all around the net for people, gear stats and the like. Want a challange? Go play Rapha in some Quake duel. THAT is a game that takes skill.

Hey np BTW I'm on Po5 and my SIN name is Parabole if anyones on there. Right now I can have 1040 force power if I want, but that will drop my force crit to around 33 percent. When I compare the differences and slap back in some black hole crit mods, bringing my force power down to around 998 and force crit to around 37 percent - the sustained seems higher.... 1040 force etc, sure..when maul or discharge or shock hit and crit, they hit big. But it's infrequent, and frankly sub-par for long encounters for the amount of force you burn through for tool-tip damage. My question is, why on earth do we have no flipping Crit talents, Accuracy talents or mainstat!!!!!!!!!

This is not a discussion about PVP. Deception shines for the first 45 seconds or so of combat, which in pvp is fine. It's PVE - sustained, and lacking basic stat talents that everyone gets but us, that is at issue for myself

Section X is not too hard, its actually kind of refreshing to have to fight your way to stuff sometimes. The issue is that, at least on Po5...the shackle Gamorean leader quest is bugged so we can't finish our weekly. They simply stand there and do not respawn with shackles, very annoying.

Yeah, i keep up with our marauders and powertechs as deception in tfb hm, often im on top depending on the boss fight. It just makes me sooooooooo angry that we are the only class that does not have any main stat / crit / accuracy talents. Madness if spec'd can get a bit of a crit boost, but not deception? The entire spec is based of critical hits. I just don't get it. Also it boggles my mind how the dread guard stalker set has only +44 accuracy on one piece...teh hell? I don't use it, i have all crafted 63's...but still, what an oversight

That's an idea as well, though if we had something that increased our force crit by like 8 percent or w/e, i could have the same ammount of crit mods and have high crit - but yeah, good thought

We are in a good spot in PVP finally, I have very little difficulties pvp'n actually, but I am a good player. We are good counters to jugs, and as an assassin its my job to take down healers and range. Operative healers are tough, i often go force starved...a lot trying to kill them while they run and heal, at which point 4 people jump me. All I want is to be able to increase my force crit through a talent, be it in surging charge stance or in the tree itself. Accuracy would be helpful to, these things are in every class but ours and i dont think it would make us OP in pvp, but it would allow me to focus more on power for PVE

Ahh, i don't think adding much needed passive talents like increased for crit / accuracy and or mainstat will make them op in PVP, but it will help for PVE. Perhaps also make blackout's cooldown tick down every 4.5 seconds by 1 second every time you get a critical hit or something. In PVP the fights last to short of a time for any of this to matter

I was more or less comparing carnage to deception since the spec play in a similar style - otherwise, im comparing STAT talents that every class gets that we do not

Again, I was talking about PVE - not pvp. Survivability is better because of entropic field and blackout. Which is great! Lets look at Carnage: Carnage gets, in its stance a what...6 percent increase to accuracy or something? On top of that, a tier 2 talent to increase force and melee accuracy (along with critical force accuracy talent in the rage tree). Carnage is kind of like deception. Carnage uses Massacre as its filler, Deception uses Voltaic Slash, Carnage has berserk that refunds rage when used on a cooldown, deception has no such cooldown. Carnage gets a proc that auto crits force scream - deception gets no such proc that increases crit chance or auto-crits. Carnage also gets gore, 100 percent armour pen. Deception gets...9 percent armour pen if you spec into it. Then toss all of the other stuff the mara has in there (i play one too). In a raid environment I can keep up with the maras and powertechs in our group - depending on the fight. On 16 man HM dread guard, I usually (after my opening burst) fall back to 3rd or so come phase 2, simply because i have to run circles around the bosses to ensure i can maul when it procs, and force speed is not as instant 'to the boss' as charge. On the droid puzzle boss, I can if luck is with me in crits, come out on top. Same with TFB. Last night I spend over 2 mill on a couple willpower /. power mods to complete my 63's, which with a stim brought my force power up to 1040...but my force critical down to 34....and i do believe its a dps loss. As a deception assassin in sustained PVE fights, it is a DPS loss if you are not around 40 percent Crit melee and 39 or so force. So that is around 550 crit rating. I have tried more crit with BM surge / crit relics, adding anymore crit past 38 percent or so barely moves your percentage up. at 550 crit, adding 44 more would bring your melee percent to around 41 percent. Keep in mind when doing this, your power is around 970 or less (depending on how geared you are). Our mercs? My marauder? Our powertechs? In equal gear of 63's, they can push 1100+ power and still have 38 percent crit or so. Why? Because they have talents in their trees to increase mainstat / accuracy and or crit. This allows them to drop mods for other things. Deception is that hardest spec to itemize, I have spent countless hours swapping mods out and relics etc, on the dummy. Which btw is a terrible source to parse for a deception.

I already stated its fine for pvp. I am talking about a few minor tweaks for sustained damage in PVE, the very basic being talents in tier 1 of the trees to increase mainstat / crit and or accuracy (stance perhaps).

Well, I decided to dig out an old character I had a blast on back in March - my assassin, and use him as my main when 1.4 hit. Tossed aside my Marauder, and my sorc healer. I am only going to discuss deception here, since it is the assassin DPS spec I enjoy (if i wanted to do madness i'd go on my sorc). Tanking, I could not really come up with anything useful to add. I've tanked all the content on its hardest setting (except for NiM EC) and its fine. Deception lacks some things that are so basic, every single other class has them. We have ZERO talents for passive Mainstat, Crit or accuracy. Not in a stance, not in a tree. Deception, like the other DPS classes has talents that increase the bonus damage of critical hits - and yet, we have no combo to garuntee a critical hit. The issue is quite simple. Every other class through stats in their trees, can get their crit to a respectable level and push power into the 1100+. I have messed around with so many variations of mods, and if I do not push my crit HIGH into the DR, my mauls barely hit for anything other then the tool tip says. Shock, Discharge..the same. While our force management is a bit better with the lowered cool down on cloak and blackout resetting - it's still not that great for sustained. It works, but again - in comparison to my other Five 50's, they don't have that issue. We have nothing on a cool down that gives us X amount of force. The Surging charge talent that gives 10 force X amount of time is rubbish. What can be done? For starters, give us the stat abilities that sorcs have. You know, like powertechs and mercs share stat talent abilities, jugs and maras, ops and snipers. I shouldn't have to have 600 crit rating to get good numbers. Surging Charge: This talent should have something with its stance - an increase in accuracy (like Carnage), better internal damage procs. Something. Saber Conduit: Your surging charge has 100 percent chance to restore 10 force when dealing damage. This effect cannot occur more then once every 10 seconds. This should NOT be a 3 point talent considering it gives us 10 force every 10 seconds. In a sustained boss fight, that is really not much. Drop it to 1 talent, or increase the amount of force regenerated. Static Charges: This talent makes me think none of the devs actually play a deception in a raid raid environment. How often do you actually use 5 stacks? It's a dps loss to wait, you discharge when its off cooldown. This needs to be changed. Perhaps speed up the process it takes to get 5 stacks? Or make it so 5 stacks gives you an auto crit on maul or shock? This is lackluster, needs to be fixed. Resourcefulness Force reduction on lacerate...which is pretty useless, and 30 second cool down on Overcharge Saber. Overcharge saber could use a boost, maybe make it increase critical chance of shock and maul for x amount of time while its active? I dunno, but something could make it a better talent. Low Slash Why do i need low slash to get to Voltaic Slash? WIth free respecs now, if I want to Raid I shouldnt have to take that talent. Charge Mastery: Why the madness talent gets increased crit and deception gets...9 percent armor pen is beyond me. There's nothing more frustrating in deception then doing your rotation and see your tooltip numbers hit. For a 3 point talent, the Surging charge part needs to be fixed. Increases Force Critical Damage by X amount perhaps? That coupled with an accuracy increase in the stance itself would be nice.. SIDE NOTE: The entire Stalker set of dread masters, implants / ear included - gives you something like +44 accuracy. THATS IT. The heck? In summation, I love the class but everyday I wonder why i spent so much time RE'n stuff to get all 63's, when I can't even get above 1040 power with having 33 force crit. It's very frustrating....PLEASE please please bioware, fix us!

Deception uses Surging Charge, Madness uses Lightning charge, Darkness uses Dark Charge

Yeah, I have 6 50's and I've played them all. My sorc was my main for the longest time, around June I got bored of healing the same op over and over (Ec) so i switched to my marauder as my main. I went inactive for a bit, came back and started using my assassin again which has been my main since then. I always liked my assassin the best (And jug dps). Every other class has at least 2 talents to increase something, be it mainstat, crit or accuracy. Not including things in the stance itself, as well as combo's that give an auto crit hit. Every single class generally share these talents with their mirror class - which is why i find the assassin so odd. Our mirror class has mainstat and crit, where the hell is ours? Why does Lightning charge get a boost in crit chance through talents and deception does not? Why does surging charge not give us increased accuracy or crit (so we can drop mods like every other class and pickup more power) I use my assassin as my main, i raid in pve and do fine. But this is frustrating, very very frustrating.

I run deception for PVE endgame operations. For TFB hardmode 16, on the puzzle boss and TFB itself I am consistently topping MoX over our marauders and powertechs IF i don't eff up my rotation for force regen. Other fights like the dread guard i usually stick around 3rd come phase 2 and 3 since the bosses move around so much, and with 16 folks its hard to see my positioning and often times i loose some dps since im not positioned correctly for maul. Builds you can run for end game ops deception: Chain shock: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#2000MZfMrRkfbRroZf0c.2 Electric Execution: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bc0MZfMrRkfbRroZc.2 Lately i've been dropping obfuscation in favor of putting points in Resourcefulness for the lowered cooldown on overcharge saber. Simply because it is a dps gain with it being on time with recklesness (both of which i used to open a fight). Best way to start, stealth - recklnessness + overcharge saber - discharge (for that crit and thus melee damage increase crit chance) then your VS X 2 (then most likely maul explit will be up), maul, shock, VS etc.. for force regen, after your initial burst phase you can hit black out for force regen, when that 6 second window is done - give or take a few seconds, force cloak to reset, keep dps'n 6-10 seconds later hit blackout again, then you have 45 seconds where you have to use saber strike a bit before black out comes off cool down. As for stats, I have played around with crit rating and power rating so much - this has to be the toughest class to maximize stats that i've played. There exists very little information for PVE deception. A few days ago I had around 997 force power with around 39.9 melee crit and 38.9 force crit with 76.7 crit multi...last night i tried with more power (63 power mods in my belt / bracers instead of crit). So i had around 1025 force power and around 37 melee crit and 35 force crit. Definitely noticed less crits with shock / maul, but they hit harder. Ive also been playing around with the new dread guard relics since they are passive power stats on them now...been trying a proc relic and the on use power one in combination with my war hero power etc...

I change it up often to try and see differences, but i usually run a war hero power relic and bm power relic, or swap out 1 for a BM crit / surge relic...my implants / earpiece are the typical accuracy / power. My belt / bracer mods are crit, and a couple enhancments are crit / accuracy to come close to the 110/100. But I also have all my 63 armor mods except 1, and mostly all 63 enhancements / mods (soon).

Hi, you sound like you play madness, and thats cool. You can talent for a bit extra crit for madness but not deception - my point is that every single other class has talents for mainstat / accuracy and or crit (force etc). We do not. We do not even have our mirror class talents (The sorc) whereas every single other class has their mirror class talents (Give or take one). I don't play madness, I got bored of that back in March on my sorc. For Deception, Crit is king. Sure, we get bonus damage to our crits on maul and shock / discharge..every other class gets those too! What we are missing are talents for crit - in the stance itself or at least a mainstat talent etc...it frustrates me. I run deception in end game ops (i switched from my mara when 1.4 hit because I always enjoyed my assassin but it wasnt beefy enough for deception). Well, on the puzzle droid in 16 man HM TFB, i am top dps. For Kephess, i was around 3rd, for TFB - i am top dps. My current power is around 996 force power with about 39.89 melee and 38.8 force. I am constantly changing mods and relics around to try out diff stats. The issue now is, if i had +40 or so more crit, the number barely goes up - might go from 39.89 melee to 40.41. It is impossible for me to get a crit of around 39 with 1100+ power, unlike my guild mates on their respective chars. EDIT: As for accuracy, VS is used the most since its a filler for deception, and usually in a parse it does say 38 percent damage while maul / shock are behind at like 25 or something...simply because its used more. Maul i am not TOO worried about missing since the exploit will still be up, but there's no way i want an attack thats used the most..missing... I am current at around 109 and 99 for acc

Im hovering my mouse over where stuff is supposed to be, in every pic i've seen they are highlighted as objects that you interact with. ***** just bugged

and now my quest light isnt working :/ Frustrating

So, I am on teh ship - in deck 4 in the room where the door shuts on you. The data pad and body are there, but I need to get out. Dufly says to the right is a crate thats highlighted, but i need the fuse which is in the garbage pile in the top left corner. Nope, the crate isnt highlighted and nothing on the floor (fuse) is highlighted for me to grab. This is the 7th time ive sat in this god forsaken room until I die. Working as intended?

Yeah, last night i ran with around 40 crit chance and 991 force power. On the dread guard boss for 16man HM TFB, i was on the top of MoX for a majority of the fight but dipped to around 2nd or 3rd, with our mara's being top. On the puzzle droid boss, I was easily top of the MoX charts for the three attempts we did until we downed it - ahead of our beastly Carnage mara and anni (and powertech). I am pretty geared for a sin decep DPS ATM and will be getting more 63's today, then someday i'll get the hazmat implants (no rush, they arent that great).

Deception is fine in PVE operations, if your geared. My burst for the first minute and a half is pretty insane and beats carnage, our issue is the sustained because after using stealth and then blackout there's a 45 second window and a longer one til stealth comes off cooldown where your dps will drop. Bioware: Why are we the only class without mainstat / crit or accuracy talents?! (Exluding madness talent, cause if i wanted to play that i'd go on my sorc

It depends what your talking about. PVP crit at 30 is fine, stack power. In PVE deception, I have spent weeks messing around with crit / power values. Since there is very little information on this topic its been an infuriating endeavor. My melee crit is around 40 percent right now, force around 39 - force power around 990 - ish. In PVE and long boss fights a high crit rating is needed, i think my crit value is around 540 or something and adding more crit barely makes my chance go up. DR. I've said it a million times, we're the only class that gets no talent for crit / mainstat or accuracy. Even our mirror the sorc has mainstat and crit talents. WIthout these, we have to dump a lot of potential power mods for crit. Very annoying. If I hadnt decked out my PVE decep with almost all 63's by now, i'd just go back to my marauder until this was fixed.