what are people's thoughts on this?

this needs to be discussed in another thread

Left / Right (from spawn point) is used almost exclusively in 50s warzones on imperial side of The Ebon Hawk server. This weekend a few of us ran low level matches with alts and the new people in these use Left / Right as well, only about 10% of the time they are refering to the minimap. I was put on ignore by one player for telling him that Left / Right are from spawn, and East / West are map directions. Personally I prefer Left/Right from spawn so that I don't need to reference my map, but if we are referencing the map it needs to be East / West. Both should be able to be used interchangeably with confidence that everyone knows what is being communicated to the Ops group. IMO the real problem isn't the use of grass / snow, east / west, or left / right, its with newer people or those who have not been in warzones much not knowing what the frame of reference with left and right is.

I like the skill, it doesn't seem to be worth even 16 heat (let alone 25 as it is currently), almost every skill we have does more damage. IMO it should be around 16 heat base and 8 heat talented based on its damage.

So, this “nerf” has me concerned as a PVE arsenal merc. I currently rely on all of the goodies that TM provides me and my raid team. To adjust some of the dependency off of tracer missile onto other skills seems like a good thing in theory, but what will happen in reality? Right now TM gives the following: Heat signatures 2-10% shield Bonus to rail shot Refreshes unload Typical current rotation is: 1.5s mark: TM hits (2% shield – 8% mitigation reduction) 3s mark: TM hits (4% shield – 16% mitigation reduction) 4.5s mark: TM hits (6% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) 4.5s mark: HSM hits (6% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) 6s-9s mark: Unload hits (6% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) 10.5s mark: TM hits (8% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) 10.5s mark: Rail shot hits (8% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) 13.5s mark: TM hits (10% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) So at 13.5s into the fight I am finally at full power The main part of the skill is to give those heat signatures to lower mitigation and increase the damage of HSM, I don’t see that being removed from the skill, but it’s very likely they will remove say the shield and rail shot bonuses to maybe power shot. This doesn’t necessarily make sense as you need to have the heat signature on the mob to use rail shot but whatever. Assuming they offload these two things to power shot with no other changes: 1.5s mark: TM hits (8% mitigation reduction) 3s mark: TM hits (16% mitigation reduction) 4.5s mark: TM hits (20% mitigation reduction) 4.5s mark: HSM hits (20% mitigation reduction) 6s-9s mark: Unload hits (20% mitigation reduction) 10.5s mark: PS hits (2% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) 12s mark: PS hits (4% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) 13.5s mark: TM hits (4% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) (to maintain) 14s mark: PS hits (6% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) 14s-17s mark: Unload hits (6% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) *assumed based on 30% proc rate off PS or TM 18.5s mark: PS hits (8% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) 20s mark: rail shot hits (8% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) 20s mark: HSM hits (8% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) 23s mark: TM hits (4% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) (to maintain) 24.5s mark: PS hits (10% shield – 20% mitigation reduction) So at 24.5s into the fight I am finally at full power (-3s for no unload proc, +3s for 2 unload procs) this may also increase as it will likely not be worth holding out on rail shot for so long up front so +1.5s for another rail shot I am really hoping they offload the buffs to something other than powershot, or allow the buffs to stack faster than they currently do with TM so that we can be to full power in a reasonable amount of time. In raiding I don’t think I have ever been able to stand somewhere for that long without missiles coming at me or being knocked back and all around. For PVP players this will be even worse, you will be toasted before you are at full power.

huh? I push buttons gud Edit: I don't even understand the point of this thread. What i get out of it is that the casuals think that gear progression is bad, hardcores think its good. It isn't included with 1.2, hardcores are mad and think it should be included. Casuals think this is wonderful and actually going to change how bad they are at pushing buttons, and their justification is that there are more casuals than hardcores and therefore only their opinion should count? Did i get that right? Anyway, we should take a poll, see if there are more people who quest than pvp, if questers win we should /delete all gear earned via pvp and only make gear from quests, because their 15 is the same as the pvp 15. Then take another poll and see how many people craft vs quest and delete one of the two so we can have more designers work on the one that will provide more revenue. Fact is the game draws in multiple kinds of people, and to be profitable they need to cater to everyone, not just casuals because they make up a bigger piece of the pie.

You confuse ignorance with apathy

give you three haiku show you zero is number for non subscriber boredom overtakes all those who level quickly please give hardcores gear Bioware get no money from people who quit due to boredom dude

read the whole article... Class changes in 1.2 include new abilities for the Warrior and the Knight, a nerf for the Bounty Hunter, and more.

At the very least i would like to see them bind to your account and be able to be freely traded to alts. I have alt crafters that i could use them on that i don't get to run through HM flashpoints due to needing the main all the time.

They should remove the option to buy warzone commendations with mercenary commendations, also remove the option to buy the heals and adrenals with mercenary commendations In fact they should just get rid of mercenary commendations all together, and bump the limit of warzone commendations to 4000 I recently had to explain the whole system to a friend who just hit level 50 and wanted to start pvping (he didn't do any prior to 50 - ouch). He said ok, how do i start working toward the kind of gear you have. I said here is how you do it: 1. Get the quests from this here PVP quest terminal, now we are going to go out to Ilum. These reward Champion bags which have 15 Centurion commendations and 7 Champion commendations in each, as well as about a 5-10ish % chance to give you a random Champion item. 2. We go to warzones and earn warzone commendations upon finishing a warzone. We take these warzone commendations and turn them in for mercenary commendations at a rate of 30 warzone commendations to 10 mercenary commendations, once we have 200 of each, we turn these in for a bag that gives us the 7 champion and 15 centurion. Add in Battlemaster and the new ranked warzone commendations and this gets painfully confusing. Mercenary commendations are the only ones that are 100% completely redundant in their current form.

would need schematics and crafting materials BOA as well

Ok, I get what you are saying, it is all in your interpretation of the original post and assumptions made about how loot is determined. 3/165 combinations provide 7/8 smuggler items, regardless of weighting 12/10000 ways to obtain 7/8 smuggler items if boxes drop as a set rather than single item rolls regardless of what the non smuggler item is 24/65536 ways to obtain 7/8 smuggler items if single item rolls regardless of what the non smuggler item is 3/10000 ways to obtain 7/8 smuggler items if boxes drop as a set rather than single item rolls with a specific item being called out, e.g. 7/8 items were smuggler and only one weapon was not smuggler 6/65536 ways to obtain 7/8 smuggler items if single rolls and a specific item being called out, e.g. 7/8 items were smuggler and only one weapon was not smuggler Regardless, yesterday the original post said 3/65536 chance to get 7/8 smuggler items. My interpretation/assumptions from the data originally given were different than yours and Aestel’s. I concede that both of your numbers are correct with the interpretation/assumptions you each made. Sorry if I ruffled either of your feathers. I stick by the OP being a failure at math who edited his original post after having 6-7 pages of posts behind it.

Don't all debuffs stack?

Up to 6/65536 your argument is correct (assuming each is rolled individually and you are specifically stating which item was non smuggler ie SSSSSSSX is different from SSSSSXSS), but when you multiply by 4 you are now mixing permutation and combination by saying that the order actually matters for the denominator (ie SSSSSSSX is the same as SSSSSXSS), but does not matter for the numerator If order matters and each item is rolled individually its 6/65536 If order matters and sets of items are rolled per box its 3/10000 If order does not matter for the set of 8 considered its 3/165 Yes

You are using a combination of "permutations" and "combinations" With no order given you take the number as one set of 8, not 4 sets of 2, and all of your examples actually equal each other as in SSSSSSSX = SXSSSSSS because in both cases there are 7S and 1X, it doesn't matter where the X is within the set of 8. Just like if I said we got 2 smuggler patterns, 2 trooper patterns, 2 jedi knight patterns, and 2 jedi counselor patterns - there is only a 1/165 chance of this happening. I am not really sure how I could explain this any differently if you don't believe me. My original point was that the OP's math was wrong, and it is - mainly due to the way it was presented to the reader. Bioware's RNG may be using a poor seed number, their coding might be wrong, or they could just love smugglers to death.

added instructions so even you can follow along with the rest of the class

Here, I found a calculator for those of you who's heads explode when they think about math, or generally just try to pass off random numbers as fact. http://www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html Facts and poor math given in the quote are above No order was given in the post, only that 7 out of the 8 total drops for the zone were for smugglers. We all know there are 4 patterns possibilities, and there are 8 total pattern drops in the zone (on 8 man). Was order important in his post - No as no order was given. Is repetition allowed, yes obviously as 8 patterns are chosen and there are only 4 possibilities. So the total combinations quantity is 165, 3 of which result in 7 smuggler patterns and 1 non smuggler pattern. - This was his complaint, he didn't complain that everything was a smuggler drop with the exception of one of the two weapon drops. Just for giggles, if he had complained that everything was a smuggler drop except for one of the last two weapons... There are 4 chests with 10 combinations in each chest 1 Smuggler + Smuggler 2 Smuggler + Trooper 3 Smuggler + Jedi Knight 4 Smuggler + Jedi Counselor 5 Trooper + Trooper 6 Trooper + Jedi Knight 7 Trooper + Jedi Counselor 8 Jedi Knight + Jedi Knight 9 Jedi Knight + Jedi Counselor 10 Jedi Counselor + Jedi Counselor NOT 16 combinations as the OP would have you believe stating that it is somehow different if you get a chest with a Trooper + Jedi Knight than a chest with a Jedi Knight + Trooper pattern. Chest one has option 1 in it 1/10 chance, chest two has option 1 in it 1/10 chance, chest three has option 1 in it 1/10 chance, and chest four has either option 2, 3, or 4 in it 3/10 chance. So the chances of this happening are 3/10000. I am not sure I can make this any easier to understand.

You can exaggerate (read: be wrong) all you want, your math is fail. To say you got 1 "non smuggler rakata item" out of 8 total drops on a given night is a 3/165 chance; its a 2/165 chance to get 4 bounty hunter patterns and 3 sith warrior patterns and one other pattern - that happened to us OMG the lewt is broken! And to claim the order in which two patterns drop from a single mob matters is just ludicrous. Regardless of how loot is generated internally, the user perceives it as two simultaneous drops and you have 10 possible outcomes per mob, not 16.

Permutation: You are right in saying that there are 4^8 different drop combinations if you are considering the each drop from the same mob happening separately as item one and then item two AND that they all pull from the same table of 4 items, but they drop at the same time with no way to determine which is actually item one and which is item two nor are they pulling from the same 4 item table it is 4 separate tables of 4 items (so each mob would have (4+2-1)!/2!(4-1)! = 10 possible combinations of rakata drops). Therefore the correct way of displaying an ordered permutation is 10^4 or 10000 specifically saying that the only way you can get 7/8 smuggler rakata items with one jedi knight lightsaber, jedi counselor lightsaber, or trooper gun is 3/10000. Combination: However, If order matters then you should have said monster one item one was smuggler, monster one item two was smuggler, monster two item one was smuggler, monster two item two was jedi knight, etc. You portrayed the items as an order-less set (7 out of 8 were smuggler) and went on to say that there are only 3 ways this can happen, which in an order-less set is also incorrect monster one item one could have been one of the 3 others, monster one item two could have been, etc. If you are talking about 7 out of the 8 total drops were for smuggler, then you are talking about a set of items of which there are 165 combinations: AAAAAAAA AAAAAAAB (same as AAAAAABA, AAAAABAA, AAAABAAA, AAABAAAA, AABAAAAA, ABAAAAAA, and BAAAAAAA) AAAAAAAC (see above) AAAAAAAD (see above) AAAAAABB etc Either way, your math is wrong.

Your math is wrong, you would use 4^8 if you were taking order into consideration, seeing as you are not you would use the formula (4+8-1)!/8!(4-1)! = 165 combinations, 4 of these combinations would produce at least 7/8 smuggler items (one of those four would produce 8/8 smuggler items), so you would have a 4/165 chance at getting at least 7 smuggler items or a 2.42% chance at this happening. If this has already been posted, sorry, but I didn't read through anything after the first post.

That was kind of the point, they are different ways to accomplish the same thing, thus making the encounters feel more unique-ish. I mean i can rattle off other ways to change them and make them harder with the removal of a DPS type check, adding healing / tanking checks as well as competency checks for long duration encounters, but i was specifically targeting the same type of check with different mechanics.

I feel like there are better ways to implement soft timers on mobs - add difficult adds that spawn at increasingly smaller intervals, have a boss get a buff that increasingly lowers the amount of damage you can do to him or increases the damage he does slowly, lower AOE recast timer over the course of the fight, make the mob split / copy himself on a timer, etc. There are just a ton of ways to add ways so that there is a gear progression needed without having to give every single mob the same enrage ability on nearly the same timer. It would at least add some diversity to otherwise fairly dull raids.

Just a question, but why does every boss enrage? Is this a WoW thing? I came from raiding in a different game for 7 years where there were very few enrage type timers and more actual strategy (not just run away from the ___ before it hurts you) in boss fights.

I am a fan of huttball. I hope to not only see more huttball maps but more WZ maps made similar to huttball where there are levels, ramps, and traps. The other two warzones are kinda bland without these things.