So i get to miss gearing on the only day i have off on cxp week cause of this patch..thanks a bunch!

Call them what you will...I will call them what the hell I want.

For want of a better term, it does what it says on the tin. dumps agro from enemy pvpers, I use it illustratively. there are abilities such as force barrier and responsive safeguards that do the same thing. Enemies cease to beat on you cause its pointless. Its a way of agro dumping, stop splitting hairs on the words I am using.

Classes that can vanish do so during a ranked match, they heal up and then reenter, this can occur multiple times. I dont know what is unclear. If you have a team of maras/sentinels and operatives/scoundrels (dps) then they pretty much do this many times over. If a team of classes that can vanish and cease all agro upon themselves do this its an agro dump in my book, regardless of other uses vanishing may have, for the purpose of this thread it is an agro-dump ability in PvP, force barrier is an agro-dump too for the record. My issue is what I have said all along, vanishing out is the most powerful ability in the game. When a team can focus an enemy from full hp to 0% hp then they are at a very distinct disadvantage. Of course off heals matter and defensives matter, but the classes with a vanish ability or agro-dump has defensives also. In a ranked match I have witnessed maras and opers vanish out multiple times rehealed to full each time, that in my book is an unlimited pool of hp. The classes are very difficult to follow too, your playable class would need to be highly mobile too to find them. Operatives (concealment) cannot be stunned while rolling, no one goes lethality, and a medicine oper has utilities they can take that enable instant healing. Jug underpowerd vs other classes being overtuned is an odd thing to say tbh, its a relative thing, and your term is essentially the same thing I said. PTs have burst, yes, but no one seriously goes this class in ranked, they get ridiculed and hated on for doing so cause its a defeat for sure. My assessment stands you have not made a convincing argument...In a ranked setting jugs and pts (dps) get focused first cause they cannot dump agro. They need support from teammates such as off healing to be of any use. Therefore what I say is right, solo ranked puging with classes that has no agro dump (see my previous post for abilities that can stop you being focused when used) need extra support such as offhealing to be of any use. With out such help from teammates then they do badly when compared to other classes. Finally I would like to add that with all the quesyncing and wintrading that goes on (I have seen it happen multiple times with well know guilds at the end of season 8) means that finding where a class needs to be improved upon can be very hard to see.

I meant dps, however the hps of oper/scoundrels are higher than the other healing classes atm.

Honestly your responses are not helpful and bring nothing to the thread. I understand that people have different ability levels, I understand people win trade and queue sync, and I understand that people use voice coms, and employ other methods to adjust the odds of winning more in their favor. . I am simply referring to the priority system in place where certain classes in ranked are picked first to be focused and defeated. There is a preference for classes that cannot remove themselves from a fight or stop themselves being focused. To say that one doesn't exist is just blatantly misleading to a valid point being made. In addition I would add that a class with high mobility and/or an agro-dump are never picked first. Next time any of you doubters are in a ranked match and you suggest that you focus the operatives/scoundrels first just make a note of the responses you receive.

This really hasn't added to the conversation. Just short unhelpful answers bring nothing.

why do you think i replied 5 times in a row? seriously you haave to ask that?

It is not fixed. bad sentence structure!

So Agro-dump is an ability that ceases attacks upon you, not all dumps are stealth. Force barrier dumps agro phasewalk is an agro dump of sorts merc/mando defensives dumps agro sin/shadow have stealth oper/scoundrel has stealth Sniper/slinger has balistic shield it can dump agro but not always. It can be a handicap to the play forcing them to remain in place till its expiration. Mara/sent force camo Jug/guardian not dump and a nerfed focused defense/enraged defense Van/pt weak defensives kolto overload is inadequate

people have moaned about all classes getting heals, this has just made snipers/slingers more viable in ranked not made it worse. mercs defensives are an agro-dump of sorts. sage barriers. Agro-dumps are not always stealth based abilities.

Are you saying that you can track stealthed targets? what a crock. My initial point remains true...bet you play oper/scoundrel or sin/shadow

LMAO why? Cause if you are selected as an enemy teams first target only a agro dump will save you, PT/van guardians/jug die first.

In addition I wrecked the enemies many times over, my skill is not in question, true the solo ranked pugs were on poor show, but, my point is still valid and highly relevant agro-dump abilities are the most powerful in game, they are the defining feature to a classes or advanced classes success in PvP.

If the maras and stealth classes break LoS and hide using the terrain then its damn near impossible to find them. So I disagree with that statement, The predation is a pain agreed, but the agro-dump is so over powered it really does define an entire match.

Vanish out abilities in ranked must be a use once per round ability

Gap closing not relevant with this topic. It matter not about the rotation of defensives vs 4 in a ranked match an agro dump is the only thing that saves a class. The heaing debuff dont work if they vanish out and you cant find them cleanse is irrelevant to this discussion I am talking about agro drops not dots.

Yes you read it right, I think all classes need an agro-dump ability especially to be viable in ranked and regs.This agro-dump ability is as important as self heals or a breaker. Here is why Playing ranked on rep side (yes I am mad) all of the imperial classes consisted of classes that can agro-dump and exit combat and heal to full. All exhibited infinite hp pools during my ranked matches. Maras using force camo and moving to 60m Operatives vanish and heal to full in or out of combat Sins heal to full out of combat So my matches vs maras has a kind of synchronised orderly vanish out and heal to full taking it in turns to re-heal up, unlimited health pool, we all got trashed. Vs operatives they simply healed up in combat and then vanished out healed to full reentered the fray and won Sins did the same, sin tanks not only durable but can heal to full every 45s with utility. Why am I salty, I will tell you why, cause if you main a jug/guardian vanguard/pt or slinger/sniper then you have no way of defending yourself vs an onslaught of 4 agro dropping self healing bursty dps. Players are now selected for on the basis of not being able to agro drop, so classes like guardians and jugs just get their defensives burned through in break neck speed. So back to my initial point, being able to agro dump in PvP is the most powerful ability in the game. I was vs dueling a mara and oper and I kicked their butts and would have won very easily based on ability, but they vanished out and healed to full multiple times and I lost. My knowledge of the class and years of playing it foiled at the press of a button. Hardly a measure of ability. This is where I know for a fact that the devs dont play their own game at a high level, or if they do the preferred class of choice is an agro dump class. I play ranked rarely because of the multiple reasons that get posted on the forums many times over, however I have not seen any identifying agro-dump abilities as the deciding factor in ranked matches, generally the side with most agro-dumping classes win. THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED FOR THE GAME TO MOVE FORWARD. I hear you say why don't I play the same agro-dumping classes and so many do. Well I believe that a game with all the same classes being played is pointless. I may as well cancel my subscription and leave never to return.

The problem is not just win traders. Queue syncing between friends or guild mates Voice coms between players vs PUG ranked players solo queuing Exploits Good old fashioned hacking Plus of course win traders I have fallen victim to all of the above cause I play ranked solo, my ability is higher than this pseudo mark of competence would suggest, but I get judged for my score. This triggers me. Reps always perform poorly on the server I inhabit, so getting a good rep toon ranked score is just impossible, why do more people play imps? Probably they want the big ole mean flashy animations and story of the imperial classes. A lot of players employ syncing, win trading, voice coms as standard. These obviously do great in ranked. Ranked is pointless, ranked is not to be taken seriously. Ranked is the most triggering part of this game.

They need to address survivorbility and self healing. This class has far to many advantages.

This topic seems to resurface all the time, I just wondered about the validity of my idea!

Oh well I am not a techie, it was just a thought, surely my suggestion is better than re-coding the entire game?

I have an idea, since people have moaned and moaned about the existing game engine from day 1, why not make future expansions on a new engine/server, this would require minimal coding as only new expansions would need to be created on this new platform not existing ones. You would just transfer your toons to the new server to continue to level them from say level 70 to 75, very similar to a pts character copy! The only issue I can think of, but one that could be over looked by the player base (in my opinion) would be conquests and interacting with lower planets. I think that in time as a kind of side project the lower planets would/could be coding in, but, as a start to breathe new life into swtor and attract new players, this would be a great thing. People could still play there alts on the "old server" should they want too, and new characters would start on the old servers as normal. I am not a programmer by trade so may have just uttered something sacrilegious with my idea, then again it may start a dialogue and lead to something in the same ball park, either way its good to talk.

I am basically waiting till 6.0 then if nothing changes for the better I am gonna cancel my long standing subscription and will leave.

Ye my sage got to tier 4 a while and was still in 236s for ages. Complete nonsense