I see you bring nothing to the discussion other than 'you have your opinion blahblah' Dude, I'm refuting your argument because IT MAKES NO SENSE. you're welcome. See other posters said 'kill the tank first' wich is a much better alternative than trying to 'separate' them with pull / punt / snare / root / mez when both can break them up and counter your attempt. Tell me an intelligent argument and I'll listen. I'm not gonna agree with pathetic responses that includes a trollish l2p at the end.

That's right. That's the way to deal with a tank + whatever combo, but what if, a tank then puts guard on the focused tank ? Good PvP tanks always watch healthbars and have good situationnal awareness, swapping guard on an ally in danger is their primary focus. If you fight great tanks, that's basically what imbalances the fights the most because they can make an ally an unkillable machine. That's the topic. Is 75% - 90% too much ?

i agree that's a lot of fun and makes tank useful in PvP, but the mitigation they provide right now is too high imo. It adds up close to 90% if it's additive, 75% if it's multiplicative. Even 75% for 6 secs out of 15 (40% uptime), is too much. And I play a tank, I played one in WAR, and I think 75% or 90% is too powerful. I actually believe the uproar about Sorc / sage being unkilable CC / DPS machines is in part due to the FACT that they stay alive because they have a tank hugging their nuts. I know, that's what I do to WIN warzones. I *********** die before those sages because they're not healing, but that's another topic (when i PuG). You trolls explain to me how it is NOT. Ohh yeah, easy to separate a tank from his ally, when my premade fights a PuG and all their ohh **** buttons on cooldown.

Dude, I PuG most of the time, and a tank swapping guard around and mitigating damage on their friends WINS games. DPS heum, not really, without guard and heals, they die all over the place. Heals heum, again, without guard they get focused, interrupted, and die in less than 10 secs. Put them both with a tank baby sitting them and they survive and WIN. Coordinated vs coordinated... Still *********** hard to separate a tank from hi guarded ally. Explain to me how it is easy ? kill the tank ? LAWL

So you baddies think -89% damage on my guarded friend is alright. No wonder why this game's PvP is terrible. Community is just *********** terrible.

I just completely destroyed you l2p comment. How is it EASY to separate a tank from his guarded friend ? Both have to have CC breaker on cooldown, both have to have consummables on cooldown, both have to have their CC on cooldown, tank have to have his leap on cooldown or no melee on his target, etc. You, explain me how it is EASY, and that only baddies can't pull it of. Simple. l2p dosn't cut it. I guess people don't want to see their tank + Sorc OPness nerfed. Don't worry, we're due. They nerfed the mechanic in WAR, I doubt this will remain like that in SWTOR. Tank bright wizards anyone ? l2p spammed all over the place on forums.

Well, I don't think l2p is the right response, much a troll one, I'm trying to have an intelligent discussion here. I played WAR for years, where the tank mechanic is the same, and they did cap tank mitigation from guard at 50% (detaunt was also -50% damage inc but woudln't stack with guard, as well as the 30% taunt), because they figured it made healers / healed DPS impossible to kill. Tanks in WAR had a 10sec 75% mitigation buff with a long buildup morale mechanic, so it wasn't up all the time, and had a long downtime. So, most of the time, you had to fight through 50% damage mitigation from tank, and even then, groups balanced with good tanks doing their jobs was what was winning fights. And that's also what happens in SWTOR, but I'm pretty sure you can constantly mitigate 85-90% of the incoming damage on your guarded friend. And actually how do you separate 2 ppl if, guarded character follows his tank if he gets pulled / punted / CCed away ? You pull / mez both away from each other ? How is it EASY TO DO ? It's not. And also, consider all classes have CC breaker, that a tank can leap close to his friend, that everybody can use consummables to buy a few extra seconds to get in guard range. Sure, coordinated teams have the advantage that they can coordinate CC to separate them, but even then, not as easy as it is to write l2p on a forum.

Sorc + tank combo pretty easy kill, gimme a break. Both have CC they can stun lock you 'till you're dead meat. Sure, if they both suck and don't LoS RDPS, they'll die, but a good sage / sorc + a good tank, cycling CC , taunts, pull, assisting targets, is simply too much. Also, BURST THE TANK LAWL. What if... Another tank uses guard on said focused tank. Just gimme a break about HOW EASY IT IS TO KILL A TANK + SORC combo. No, theorycrafting is in favor of the tank + sorc combo if you don't have a similar duo in your group. 2 DPS won't take down a good tank + sorc combo. They have all the tools to mez 1, taunt the other one and take him out in less than 10 secs. If said DPS is guarded, then it's closer, but then the only combination that can compete with Sorc + tank is similarly specced / geared Sage + tank.

I think this deserves a good discussion on whether it's considered OP and the source of the problem with Sorc / Sage non-squishyness, or if the community thinks it's alright and we should focus tanks first from now on. Tanks guarding their friendly sorc / sage and applying taunt on important ennemy DPSers are actually mitigating 55% (guard) + 30% (taunt) + other debuffs depending on tank class + spec. 85% 6 secs out of 15secs (40% of the time), 55% (60% of the time), is that too much ? I think so. Makes robe wearing character tankier than an unguarded tank. Add to that other debuffs, such as, on my vanguard, -4% damage debuff (ion pulse), -20% accuracy debuff for 18 secs on a 60 sec cooldown, and all the CC both a Sage / Sorc + tank can pull of together. If it's multiplicative, it would be something close to 70-75%. Still too much. They should cap tanking mitigation to 50%, imo. You wouldn't see unkillable lightning spammers anymore. Thoughts ?

This happened to me yesterday for the first time. I opened my quest log, hit the RESET button on my daily. Next win counted. I don't know if it fixes the bug, but since I had to log out between the time I got the quest and when I actually Qed WZs to complete it, it might have been the source of the bug.

I posted this in a thread talking about Sorc / sage bubble. Not even talking about their CC. What's making them the wrecking machines when with good teammates. The problem with the bubble is that with a tank guarding + taunting anyone attacking the sorc / sage, it lasts a lot longer, since these damage debuffs severely gimp your damage against the guarded target. Seriously, I PuG WZs, see a sage that has a clue, that's not healing whatsoever, only himself and me (vanguard tanky tank) as he saw I was baby sitting him, he spent the whole WZ DPSing and reapplying bubble, and as we were assisting down 1 target at a time, we almost didn't die at all, only me a couple of times as he wouldn't care that much about healing me. 6400 absorbed damage. Add to that -55% damage reduction from guard, and -30% reduction from taunt, -20% accuracy debuff also have to be considered, and -4% damage debuff from ion pulse. That all adds up to an incredible -89% damage reduction if it's additive, and if it's multiplicative who knows how it adds up. Hard to tell since there's no combat log, but in WAR, they nerfed the mechanic once they figured it's giving squishy classes way too much mitigation. Guarded friends can't go higher than -50% mitigation unless a tank uses morale 4, in WAR (75% max mitigation, on a long buildup morale mechanic). I guess they didn't think about it for SWTOR. They'll fix it eventually. Morale of the story, tank doing his tanking job + sage / sorc is what is OP. That's ridiculous, -89% reduction means that if you actually want to break the 6400 bubble, you have to deal around 60k damage. That's insane.

The problem with the bubble is that with a tank guarding + taunting anyone attacking the sorc / sage, it lasts a lot longer, since these damage debuffs severely gimp your damage against the guarded target. Seriously, I PuG WZs, see a sage that has a clue, that's not healing whatsoever, only himself and me (vanguard tanky tank) as he saw I was baby sitting him, he spent the whole WZ DPSing and reapplying bubble, and as we were assisting down 1 target at a time, we almost didn't die at all, only me a couple of times as he wouldn't care that much about healing me. 6400 absorbed damage. Add to that -55% damage reduction from guard, and -30% reduction from taunt, -20% accuracy debuff also have to be considered, and -4% damage debuff from ion pulse. That all adds up to an incredible -89% damage reduction if it's additive, and if it's multiplicative who knows how it adds up. Hard to tell since there's no combat log, but in WAR, they nerfed the mechanic once they figured it's giving squishy classes way too much mitigation. Guarded friends can't go higher than -50% mitigation unless a tank uses morale 4, in WAR (75% max mitigation, on a long buildup morale mechanic). I guess they didn't think about it for SWTOR. They'll fix it eventually. Morale of the story, tank doing his tanking job + sage / sorc is what is OP. That's ridiculous, -89% reduction means that if you actually want to break the 6400 bubble, you have to deal around 60k damage. That's insane.

I'm telling you why I dislike GW2 even if I haven't played it. You asked me why I think it will disapoint a lot of people, that hype never meets expectations. You tell me 'how do you know...' I thought you were a fanboi. Sorry for being rude, but I think it's stupid that people expect GW2 to be anything less than religiously awesome. It will have pros and cons, like other games, and you'll read plenty of whining on forums, like for all the other games, after release. Devs can't please everyone, all the time. When they do try that, they fail on many aspects.

I agree mostly, I surely wish they'd fix many PvP issues, more warzones, more world PvP objectives, 4v4 tournaments, 8v8 tournaments, guild vs guild huttball, whatever that would bring competition. But, what about the rest of the game ? The PvE is well done. They only need to add content for end game. And believe me, they're probably going to release a huge and free expansion in the next year, like they did with WAR (same bunch of Devs and publisher). There's a lot of similarity between SWTOR and WAR, but SWTOR launch has been much better, and the game much more stable and enjoyable. They're working on something, but they won't tell anything yet. Book it. Like somebody else said, be patient, or, unsub then come back when new stuff comes out.

Are you already a GW2 fanboi ? Yes, I like gear differences in my MMOs, because I like character customisation. In many games gear is different yet not game-breakingly different. For example, they could get rid of expertise and r50, r60 gear would still give an edge over r40, but raid gear of equivalent level should be a good alternative to pvP, giving similar yet different stats and bonuses, making it important to both raid AND PvP to obtain the best gear combinations. I know pvPers don't want to PvE ever. Then perhaps you play the wrong type of games. Just sayin'

Why won't you ? Do people seriously think it's cool to SPACEBAR every convos and rush to the endgame and then cry they have nothing else to do ? To gain BM gear before everyone else then state the game offers no competition ? And you think Bioware should care about these people ? 'Wait, let's introduce more levels and more gear to grind, more warzones and fix world PvP for those no lifers, so they keep paying subs'. 'Oh nevermind, they're 5% of our paying customers, are all mad at us already, and will keep posting how bad the game is anyway, less trouble and negative publicity if they leave already.'

Well, having played probably hundreds of games and around 15 MMOs, I KNOW that most games fail to meet the hype. And, I played GW1 for years, but I know many many people who disliked it, even if it had the most balanced PvP ever with tons of maps, titles to unlock and show boat, ladder, tournaments for real cash, tons of skills and builds, lots of variety, but NOT ENOUGH for the 'hardcore' PvP players. For example, EVERYONE has same gear, only graphical differences. I personnally dislike, that, in a pseudo MMORPG, I am just a clone of everyone else playing same race / class. So you PvE for what reason ? To get a spiked helm that has same stats my PvP leather helm has ? Lame. But PvP will be balanced, granted. Ohh wait it won't. They still patch GW1 because there's ALWAYS a FOTM build in those games. You'll still read rage posts on forums, still will have to fight through exploits and bugs. Same ole same ole.

I agree and I'll add a couple notes. A) The hardcore PvPers rush to the end game to gain the best PvP gear so they can be more 'competitive', then realise the end game isn't all that fun, that the fun IS levelling. If you leveled in PvP warzones only, you didn't experience 90% of the content. B) They never advertised the game as a PvP oriented one, so the hardcore PvP crowd that begs for more should just move on instead of crying that the game will die if they ever leave. C) Niche crowd for sure. EVE, WAR, MO, DF, all PvP games that failed (other than EvE, but even then, 300k subs shouldn't be considered a huge success, niche success yes) to retain the hardcore PvP crowd. Even GW1 didn't, as a lot of PvPers went to WoW. People seem to think GW2 will be the Savior of the PvP MMO genre, people once again will be utterly disapointed. Personnaly, I think this game's PvP is quite funny for levels 10-49, then at 50 you hit a brickwall and that's completely broken if you didn,t get there first, especially if you're rep on a emp heavy server. Fighting full BM premades, same people WZ after WZ, a whole lot of fun for new 50s. People rush to BM then WTFpwn nub 50s and then cry 'nothing else to do, bored' after 1 month and a half of game's existence. This isn't even competitive PvP, unless you 4v4 an equally geared team. Devs don't want to design their games for these spoiled brats anymore, they crapped on games designed for them, like MO, DF and WAR. You fool them once, shame on you, you fool them twice, shame on them. For example, Mythic (WAR) thought introducing PvP level grind and gear grind expansion would appeal to the 'hardcore' PvP player base, it didn't, and it scared the casuals away for good. With SWTOR, you can clearly see they are trying to please the casuals and, like WoW, it has much more chances to succeed. There are kids with 3 50s, as another poster said. Get a freaking life. If anything, uninstalling MMOs would be good for their social life.

Well, in fact, start your rotation with a few grav rounds (debuff 20% armor), then sticky grenade, then full auto, then HiB / demo round after 2nd tick, BOOM HUGE BURST (sticky + HiB or demo round + 2nd tick of full auto all hitting almost at same time). If you're under attack, you should be able to land 2 ticks of full auto and then use demo round / HiB or any other instant ability that'll land at same time. 2 ticks is good enough, that's what ? 4k dmg from full auto alone when you target is fully debuffed. I wouldn't be surprised if a fully geared commando, popping adrenals and relics, could pull a 10k burst rotation like that with the stars aligned. From RANGE. How is it bad ?

The OP's strategy works against terribads, but in reality, if you jump a healer in ennemy territory, you can be sure you'll have a whole squad on your nuts trying to kill you, even if you're a tank. So in order to succeed, you have to have your whole team charging in and scaring the healer off, while it can work with a full team (4 ppl) on vent, most PuG really don't want to charge in like that, because they expect they could win a match killing the closest target and kiting away as soon as they take damage (typically, a puG has no healer so they're right to do so) What I'd rather do is bring a vanguard / powertech, and pull / stun the healer closer to your team, wich even a PuG team will focus. If he survives, leap to him after he force speed away and interrupt. You have good chances to succeed if your team knows to focus squishy Sorc / Sage when they're in range. A good vanguard / powertech shouldn't have trouble vs Sorc / Sage. But usually, a good ennemy team will swap guard on their healing friend and focus fire the threat, and any class that has interrupt, pull, leap, snare should be considered a threat to them so it would take good support from teammates to constantly pull it of. Then next fight, their healer stays behind, pull their DPS out of heal range, untill the healer comes in range, then leap to him / stun / interrupt. I have to agree that some classes are definitely meant to be countering Sorc / Sage, like Jugg / guardian / powertech / vanguard. With good healing support, my shield vanguard can survive quite a long time and be very disruptive with his guard, his taunts on nearby DPS, AoE -20% accuracy debuff, explosive surge / ion pulse 4% less dmg debuff, self 25% less dmg taken buff, shield procs giving ammo back and absorbs, short cooldown melee interrupt. A real pain in the ***. This class really shines when played in a team with good DPS and heals. Not that good solo PuG though. Hybrid heal classes are the best for solo / PuG, that's why you see so many of them.

So does a Commando / merc when he has a melee train right on top of him. A lot of attacks bypass his armor and his CC is pretty limited compared to Sorc / Sage. To be honest I can beat most spammers with my vanguard because I interrupt / put stuff on cooldown, but this game isn't about 1v1 and in a team a Sorc / sage is much more valuable than most other RDPS / healers. - Best AoE DPS - check - Best healing - check - Best hybrid - check - Best CC - check Buff imo, so Sorc / sage are King of 1v1.

RDPS hiding behind melee and tanks in a team PvP game. news at 11. Seriously, if you're charging in 1st and then complain you die too easily and that you can't survive melee beating on you without a tank guarding you, your case is a good study subject for a mental institute. RDPS / healer needs backup to do his job, DUH.

I actually don't believe conspiracy theories, just thinking they designed a pretty OP class. Nerf DPS when healing, nerf heals when DPS. Healing as a DPS commando is pretty terrible, why is it not with SI or sage ?

You Q for warzone solo in the 10-49 bracket and have to fight a 'random' or 'premade' 8 sorcerers / assassin team. 1) /facepalm at class balancing team that designed this utter crap, a balanced 8 sorcs / assassins destroys everything, there are no FOTM counter other than a similar 8 sages / shadows. 2) /shrug and still go out to fight them, handing them free kills and medals. Farming a few medals if your team can work together, but forget about actually 'winning' this, unless teh sorcs are complete nubs. 3) /afk 'till the match ends, sending your companions on crafting missions while alt-tabbing to a much more enjoyable webpage content. 4) /leave the WZ as it's a total waste of time, if you're in for a good PvP fight, this won't be one. 5) /QQ, like what I'm doing here. Seriously. Stack all of 1 class, in a premade, with tank / heals / DPS all in same FOTM OP archetype. This is completely ridiculous. I've yet to see 8 troopers / BHs, or 8 whatever else. And also, none of those Sorcs needs to be pure heals, they all are hybrids. Hybrids ending up WZ with 300k DPS and 100k heals. I've never seen a hybrid commando / scoundrel DPS / heal that much. I guess 'competitive' players are rerolling Sorcs / assassins just for fun, seeing how easily they can own with just 1 class in their group composition. Soon we'll see more and more veterans 'compete' in the lower bracket, mark my words.

You're 59 after 1 month and it's along grind ? Sheesh, you never played Korean MMOs don't you ? or Warhammer ? Gimme a break with the long grind, a long grind is 2-3 months of PvP 3-4 hours / day for 1 level.