Agreed. I had been pulling out my hair from level 38 and on while leveling my warrior. Now I've gotten my Operative to level 46 leveling as medicine spec, healing the odd warzone, and having all around a much better time. I'd like a reason to at least want to play my jugg to do dailies or something, but it's just too damn frustrating to be worth my while.

Out of context? I criticized the video for being unimpressive, in that there was nothing impressive that happened in the video. He popped adrenals, had buffs, etc. Nothing that he did was any manner of extraordinary playing. He was just playing, and happened to have big numbers flash across the screen. The poster of the video used the video as justification for Juggs are fine, and I was telling him how foolish of an assertion that was. You were, seemingly, mocking me for doing just that. I don't take insinuations that I don't know what I'm doing lightly. Juggs are either a tunnel vision dps class or a good huttball carrier. They don't take much skill. You get less output for the same input anywhere else. BTW, healers need to get more medals. Doing 250k healing and only getting 3 medals seems unfair.

No. I'm not impressed because every other class is capable of more with less effort. Correct buffs? Correct adrenals? Does it take skill to say "Hmmm strength = good" and spend your money accordingly? Does it take skill to beat on people who don't know that their class has dozens of means to keep a warrior off of them? Does iit take skill to jump a back-pedaling baddie and 1v1 him while he keyboard turns away from you? Does it take skill to have your buddy queue with you and heal you and only you? Does it take skill to simply play long enough to grind out expertise gear and crush those without it? Does it take skill to ignore objectives in an OBJECTIVE BASED WARZONE and proceed to tunnel vision squishies while the enemy team hold all nodes and is scoring goals in huttball? Do you even realize that every single one of those "big hits" was a super-charged slam in Rage spec, the closest thing Juggs have to viable damage? You take someone smashing a person out of context and try to use it to prove that these situations = all situations. You are positively clueless as to how game balance actually works. Skill is not what the warrior class requires. Tolerance is.

Level 50 vengeance spec. I abandoned that character, and am actually enjoying the game playing a medicine spec operative. OOOOHHH AAAAHHH NUMBERS If yu have a pocket healer, exp gear, BG buffs, adrenals and play against bads, anyone can do what was shown in the video and more. Not impressed.

There is nothing, barring huttball carrying, that Juggs do better than other classes.

Forgive my ignorance, but where may I find these patch notes in full?

Ooh, I'd take that one.

Divide Ravage's damage into them equally, then remove Ravage from the game.

So are you saying you want the balance metric for Warriors to begin with the assumption that everyone else is awful?

You'd be surprised how many people base their "Jugg is fine L2P" arguments on every single person in a BG letting the warrior sit on them unabated.

Only use stim boost before a shiv, so you keep more stacks up longer. I also find that corrosive dart isn't really worth the time or energy required, things just don't live long enough to be worth your while. For a single, silver mob I stealth in and sleep dart > hidden strike > shiv > debilitate > eviscerate > backstab > shiv and carbine burst whenever nothing else is up. I usually end up tanking things, so I throw up a kolto probe or two if the need presents.

I thought it was nice that every specific example in that post in terms of class balanced referenced warriors/knights. Gives me hope that they see the issues, although their premise that our damage is acceptable was...disheartening. I'd take a survivability buff, though. Might make me play my level 50 warrior instead of my operative for a change.

The masses have a point. Besides, this was said during the closing end of the beta, not really when the "masses" were involved much in the game.

hahahahahaha The choice makes sense. Someone wants to play a good, fun, strong melee dps and an Operative is a great choice. I'm 39 on my operative, leveling as Medicine spec, and it's faster and easier than my warrior was. There IS something wrong with the warrior class, or else the devs wouldn't have said we were in line for buffs/reworking.

I'm curious as to how you've come to the conclusion that continuing to make legitimate counters to your arguments constitutes both "losing" and "grasping straws."

So your plan is to have near 100% uptime on your target in a world where every class has more tools to get away form us than we have to get to them? But I have no question about it working. On terrible players. Good players are another story altogether.

K, so use all those cooldowns to get one combo. How often can you do that? Now ask how often other classes can do even more damage with their own combos.

Allowing Force Scream to stun strong mobs and players, perhaps as a high-tier vengeance talent, would be a nice alternative.

Ugh. Just...just ugh. This isn't about having to be awake. I know you're trying to be cute, but seriously. This is about having too large of a skill set. I mean, the vengeance rotation makes Warlocks look like Arcane Mages. Vengeance needs 12 rage for a full Shatter > Scream > Impale combo. Last I checked, that's a full bar. No other class needs a full resource bar to get off one combo. Outside of a saber throw > charge > enrage combo, it's no simple task to get a full rage bar in pvp with all the tools that every other class has to keep us away from them.

I don't think any class in this game is currently capable of a 25k hit or crit.

Thissssssss. gosh darn. (hahahaha the word filter changed that.) Like I said a while back, the last thing I was thinking when I got Vicious Throw was "Damn, I could really use ANOTHER ability to throw in here." It's just annoying. Ravage eating two GCDs doesn't help. Yeah, Shatter could be brought down to four rage (before Shien form reduction) and would be a nice change. The problem would still be, though, that with Ravage being dumb and channeled, we'd be GCD locked AND rage capped. Without Ravage in there, we could be throwing in some vicious slashes when high rage happens.

You are either exaggerating your claims or not giving us the whole picture. You said you used Jaesa as vengeance, which companion did you use as immortal? Are you still using your full tank gear? And yes, Vengeance needs a hard CC. There's no reason for us to not have one.

No hard CC, sub-par damage output, etc. There's a lot of problems with vengeance. Hell, even Pommel Strike has a 15 second longer cooldown than Eviscerate (the operative equivalent ability). Not to mention the fact that the main mechanic of the spec is resetting the cooldown on a 3-second channel on a melee class, which is just a poor design choice. Towards the end of my playing my Jugg, I would intentionally clip off the last tick of the channel, just because I hate the ability so much. It might be a slight dps loss to play that way, but I really didn't care, I hate Ravage. Rerolled operative and never looked back. Ravage may be our hardest-hitting ability in total, but the DPET is terrible. Besides, Ravage really only does good damage when the last tick crits. The ability is terrible, and Rampage needs to be redesigned, as I recommended in another thread that I'm tired of bumping. And yes, vengeance is broken. The thing required to make full use of the spec is not skill. It's tolerance.

not sure if serious.

I've maybe legitimately used cover 10 times the entire duration of my playing an operative, currently level 38. I do everything in melee.