TheGreatFrosty
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Posts posted by TheGreatFrosty
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have DL 2 diff progs for mouse click but couldnt make it work with machine, dont have a gamer mouse to test what you say
Because you're unable to do it, it must be impossible.
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Setting up a macro for right click doesn't work, I suggest you try it before you cry about it...
Oh dear.
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Decorations from the vendors in the Stronghold section.
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And what about this is surprising?
This is really what gets me.
I'm not the slightest surprised that people are doing it, but far more surprised that people are surprised to hear people are doing it.
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I haven't given you proof that it's happening. So because I havent given you proof, do you then believe people macro'ing on the slot machines isnt happening?
Just go and get proof. It is happening, but that's because I'm convinced by my cynical nature. If something can be macroed, it will be macroed. There is really no "if" but "when" for these types of things.
That said, why are you trying to convince others without proof? If they don't wish to believe it, or are unconvinced, what does it matter to you?
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Already did that. Next time I will record it and show you.
"B-b-b-b-but what if they're not macroing and are just incredibly consistent with their clicking!!!"
Tbh even if I show a video of that, there will always be defenders.
I'm not questioning you bud. I'm just saying how you can prove it.
I think the slot machines were a horrendous thing to introduce in their current state, and find it even worse that the issue was not immediately patched out.
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Goodness me there are a lot of macro defenders on here.
Ok lets focus the issue towards the fact people can even macro on the slot machines anyway, and move the issue away from "are they innocent or not", and more towards "how can we stop people from macroing the slot machines"
For proof, stand in front of the slot machine and move about. You'll find a spot where the person, if they are macroing, ceases to click, as their preset fixed position macro will be clicking on your avatar instead.
Make them stop and start 3 times and record it for proof.
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You get ~20% RNG each and every time you run a crew mission. It's not ~20% RNG over running the missions 50000 times.
The same applies to RNG on the slots. This is really basic stuff that you already know.
But the sample size is still too small to accurately reflect the 20%... it has to be a larger size to account for RNG.
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been there, done that. after several days of NOTHING but hoping alts, only to come back no no crits, or better yet - failed missions, and that's with using companions that supposed to be critting, after maxing their affection out with gifts I got from all the mission skill leveling (and pack opening)
this is not playing the game to me. this is doing chores for virtual items.
the fact that purple crit mats were so rare compared to blue mats is a terrible TERIRBLE design. the fact that it was pretty damn common to see blue mats listed on GTN UNDER vendor price, due to overabundance and overpricing and the fact that they are barely useful in these quantities? is NOT good design.
if I wanted to play spreadsheets in space, I would have subscribed to EVE. in TOR, I actualy let to get out in a world, quest, role play, run ops, play around with outfits and decorations, go out exploring or achievemnt hunting, etc.
but if all my time is spent alt hopping to click couple of buttons while staring at loading screens and then more loading screens as I shuffle between strongholds trying to get the right missions to show up - what the hell am I paying subscription for?
and its virtually mindless. but with very low return when you look at it from a perspective of using for yourself, rather then selling for profit.
I'm so damn glad they added lvl 11 mats to jawa vendors. i'm so damn ecstatic that I now have 4 different ways of getting purple mats instead of just a single crapshoot time consuming method. pardon - 5, now that materials are actualy going to be affordable.
but I do wish that they improve mission skills instead of taking something good and making it bad.
RNG. I've done that for three years. Good weeks and bad weeks.
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There is absolutely zero evidence that any price for tokens is warranted or better then what they are currently set at.
Some people are trying very hard to base token prices on what they feel the "fixed floor" price should be for L11 mats. That is subjective and actually kind of hyperbolic.. being as prices on mats change in game from day to day across the board. There is no "fixed floor" price for anything in this game (until you get to a 1 credit list price). IF... IF Bioware determines through analytics that the current drop rates are not intended (in the context of server economy and health) they can simply adjust the loot table for the slots and bring it right back in line. But again, there is no evidence yet that the drop rates are not intended... only that some players don't like what it is (gee.. could say that about anything in the game really, based on forum discussions around here).
Where you and I disagree, like in this case, is when you position ideas that deliberately change some mechanic in the game and insist that it addresses something that actually needs fixing. It is not at all clear here at this time that anything actually needs fixing here.
The core issue here ----> some people do not like getting surprised, and some people do not like having to adjust to changes in they way content is provided to us in MMOs. And the issue is actually personal... personal for those that are bent about it (regardless of reason).
How can you not get this. Who are we deliberating against?
The suggested price is not an arbitrary number, but one set against the cost of crafting missions. If it is not adjusted, crafting missions will never be ran again as they are more costly and entail increased risk.
I have to ask: is this something you want? When a new player comes onto the game and asks which of the gathering selects he should select to make money you simply say "Don't bother, it's slot machines or nothing."
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So you ran a 5000 coin experiment (allegedly). Yeah, you got screen shots.. and we know those cannot be faked, right?
Not saying you did, just that none of us can prove your screenshots are real.. that is all. THEN... you published an editorial in the forum, using deliberate confirmation bias, to demonstrate the evil of your dropping 5000 coins into a slot. Your data does not match previous data from a good number of players posting in the forum this week, but we are supposed to ignore them and believe you?
Feel better now?
Guess what.... nothing you say, or no matter how mad you get, Bioware will not adjust drop rates based on your input. If you have a genuine concern.. then file a bug report and maybe.. maybe.. they will agree with you and make adjustments to the drop rates. Or, maybe not. See.. Bioware has all the analytics on the economy, not us. It's up to them to review that data, compare it to their planned intention, and then make adjustments over time, if needed.
You must feel embarrassed a lot. His findings reflect many players, including my own, with approximately 65-70% of the revenue being made back directly through selling rep items, and a similar number of purple items. I can also take screenshots, but you've got your tinfoil hat on (or there''s a simpler reason as to why you're committed to being wrong).
They've already said they plan to review the drop rates.
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Ok......what does that have to with my comment? I was correcting someone whe. They said everything was being looked at.
How guy funny, you are the poster child of what's wrong with this machine. 2k mats in a couple days.....you realize how long it would have taken me to get that amount before the slot machine? Months....no wonder you guys are tryin to defend these drops. By the time they nerf it you'll have 10k in mats lol.
Precisely. It's motivated by the same self-preservation that, ironically, they accuse crafters of, who have taken months to accumulate materials that others have now obtained within an hour of botting.
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I can respect different opinions but at least add some explanation to why you think X.
I had a line of thought I made an experiment and posted the results with pictures.
many people here just post stuff like "Bo-Hoo! they cry1!!!" add some serious opinion or that's just going to end in spam...
They're grown embittered by their inability to afford things without doing anything to change that.
Now they can afford it, due to Bioware's oversight, they feel self-righteous and empowered, and are eager to make out that the change is simply a natural change of playstyle, rather than an overwhelming simplification of the crafting system.
We'll see how much of this is reversed come Tuesday, when they make the change to the jawa loot.
One thing you can guarantee in all walks of life, lazy people will always blame some power hidden from their eyes for making their lives worse, rather than simply doing something to change their fortunes. Why haven't they been able to afford purple augments before? Because crafters are greedy. Of course.
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The results by people that want to keep making money off others are being Falsified end of story I just did 9,900,000
test on the machine using 2 machines results got back 6,100,000 creds from the Rep items a loss of 3,800,000 credits Like I have said in previous posts and other have stated this is a way to get everyone able to craft and get rid of the major gold farming "in's " lower the cost on matts and the people botting to make money are gone pretty fast even if they sit and click the machine all day the prices on resources are gonna drop rapidly... SO everyone can craft. Gold farmers in a panic .... this sound like the best move I have seen and yes I got a lot of matts 2600 green 3100 blue 2100 purple 200 certs but I know that the items I get will not be worth tons anymore. This Machine is awesome and fun to play. I only see the screams and anguish of those making Phat loots off the Crafting schemes in the game so tighten you belts Crafting Kings cause everyone will get to make stuff now too.... oh btw some people will still be lazy and buy your over priced crap.
Scanning through this mostly inarticulate block of text, I noticed that you say you spent almost 10mil on coins, at a cost of 500 credits each.
You later say the slot machines are fun.
Realistically, the chance you sat and clicked two machines a total of 19,800 times without botting are so incredibly slim. This is the future of the game and the economy if this doesn't change.
Assuming you did bott (which I do), how exactly are these machines fun?
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Fixed for you.
Exactly.
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I seriously hope the Devs are smart enough to not listen to 90% of players in this thread.
The machines have broken the current state of the economy, fact. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it simply has.
Gathering missions are no longer worth it, especially those such as Treasure Hunting and Underworld Trading.
For those saying that only rich players could afford to make money out of the pre-slot machine climate... what are you talking about? It required 2k-3k per mission? Just go slicing and guarantee break even with full affection companions, with the chance of making +80k per mission round.
The current system has replaced work with no work. The only players remaining poor before were those too lazy or not bothered about alt switching to control multiple crafts. With these machines, why would anyone take the time to send multiple companions on different alts off to do missions, when the slots are statistically guaranteed to produce better returns...
I understand the wish for a different status quo, but what you're really advocating is replacing a system that required some degree of effort with one that requires absolutely none. You are destroying the spirit of crafting in SWTOR. Slot machines should never, ever be the number one way of mat farming... I feel so stupid writing that on an MMO forum.
If you thought the mats were expensive before, controlled by certain players, what was stopping you from picking up the craft yourself? Making an alt and having multiple missions running at once? Quite literally nothing other than you were not prepared to do it. Community makes me laugh.
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I love how all the trophy pictures are the same. Honestly, how long did that take to develop? Take screenshot, C and P
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Incoming rage!
Oh man, all those terribads with 600 ESO actually get a title that says 'Professional' and all rewards.
Simply put, no matter how bad you are, you still get rewards. It doesn't get more carebear than this.
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Boosts are affected. The only complaint being made in Eric's original thread is that character perks and experience boost items don't seem to be working to the degree that people expect.
To go back to my example of the 25% boost item, also visible if you look at eric's numbers.
Since people view the 25% boost as only a 20% boost, when doubled it only appears to be a 40% boost(so you appear to be falling a full 10% short).
Eric's original March To Makeb post is misleading, because it doesn't account for subscriber bonuses.
What is actually happening is:
100%
25%(subscriber)
25%(boost)
30% (perk)
=180%
Doubled=360%
What appears(if you don't realize that f2p is the base experience) to be happening is
100%
20% (boost)
24% (perk)
=144%
Doubled =288%
The 288% more than normal (I stress the word normal here, because that's what people are actually concerned with) is what people will have happen. Mathematically, its 360% of the experience that someone using baseline experience would received.
*EDIT
Most importantly, if Eric's numbers from the testers don't match what's seen in game, there's a problem. If the in-game experience matches Eric's numbers, which are mathematically consistent with the promised bonuses, then everything's good.
2nd EDIT
The numbers from Eric's thread that I quoted I believe were the solo run numbers. The party run numbers are also available in the thread. Hopefully those numbers are correct.
I have no idea how experience multipliers interact in a party environment
I'm with you now.
I still think there must be something going in (possibly in party groups) because I get less EXP per mob kill from double EXP weekends than I do from rested EXP. And that's not just me being derpy - I saw it before and tested it again this time.
I do appreciate the help though.
My opinion towards Bioware on this remains the same, however. I still solidly believe that a well-explained post could have cleared this up. But as another poster pointed out, not ducking their heads underneath the table would have meant explaining why boost returns are not as advertised etc. It's more annoying that so much input was given to the other thread, which was in turn entirely ignored. As I said, it's either an ability to articulate the above or a reluctance to admit certain inaccuracies in the previously provided formula.
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I'm speaking about the base numbers for non-doubled experience.
What I mean by multiplicative(as opposed to flat-stacking), is when you multiply the bonuses.
Rested Experienced is multiplicative.
Double Experience is multiplicative.
Experience boosts(the CM items) are flat stacking.
Character Perks are flat stacking.
Multiplicative would look like this: 1.25*1.25=1.5625, for a subscriber using an experience boost during normal experience. This is NOT how character perks and experience boosts work. This is only how double xp and rested xp works.
Flat stacking(which is what all boosts except for rested and double xp use) looks like this: 1+.25+.25=1.5
I'm tired and much of what you say is going over my head, but I appreciate the attempt to explain.
But am I right in thinking you mean to suggest that boosts are not affected by these double EXP weekends? The original idea, as proposed by Eric, was for a straight double on the boosts used and then that new % increased applied to the new base. So 25% would be 50%, and legacy would become 60%. Then these values were applied to the base.
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There is a 25% difference between f2p and sub. But they are not at 75%, they are the base line. We get a 25% boost off of their base line.
So normal is
100% f2p
125% sub
Then when you add a 25% boost(from the cartel market item), you get 150%(since boosts are non-multiplicative as a rule of thumb).
To people who normally operate at 125%, 150% looks like a 20% boost over their normal experience(1.5/1.25=1.2)
Again, what?
What do you mean a rule of thumb? This is why the communication on these issues is so poor.
The only resource or evidence we have is what was originally stated prior to the first weekend. That said that these are, in fact, multiplicative (and obviously in ALL scenarios a major 25% will stack with say the 30% from flashpoints). I'm not talking about 25+25, I'm talking about 25+30 (legacy).
If we go off their base, then how do you come to 150% :S. If the base is 100%, then 200%... Surely?
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Eric Musco's posts were accurate(only his original double XP post back from March to Makeb was missing information as it didn't mention subscriber bonus xp), but unfortunately many people don't understand how base experience worked(which is expounded upon later in the thread)
*EDIT
To illustrate, the main point brought up against Eric's numbers was the XP boost item(25%). People frequently claim that its actually 20%.
Since F2P is base.
Subscribers get a 25% bonus.
Another 25% means you operate at 1.5x normal.
Going from 1.25x to 1.5x looks like 1.5/1.25=1.2 to people, so subscribers using the experience boost items frequently conclude(erroneously) that the experience booster is only granting 20% extra experience.
This seems wrong.
There is a 25% different in EXP between F2P and sub, not 50%. Whichever way you take it. If they are 75% then we're 100%, meaning there's a 50% different with this, then add the % differences from double bonus.
If you take it as 100% v 125%, same deal. It's a much greater different than you're suggesting - and more importantly, it isn't properly factoring in the boosts from either consumable or legacy.
Whichever way, it needs competent clarification from somebody (if that person exists) who actually understands it at Bioware.
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well, that, or maybe you just are not understanding how it works...people using it while rested and then expecting it to be double that.
rested XP is equivalent to double XP so if you constantly run chars while rested, you will never see a difference between rested XP and double XP weekends other than on the quest rewards. The difference being that you don't burn through your rested XP very fast.
I think eric explained it quite correctly how the numbers work, I think its more just people not understanding that rested XP does not work with double XP.
Go look at the original post advertising these weekends. If it no longer functions that way, or if they've decided to alter it, an explanation / clarification would be useful. However all their replies so far have suggested a lack of knowledge, rather than a reluctance to clarify.
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It explained nothing? It provided categories of samples which were too few and flawed, as was stated by the many posts after. It never got another reply.
What was the purpose of pointing me there? :S
Not saying you did, just that none of us can prove your screenshots are real.. that is all.
The Contraband Slot Machine
in General Discussion
Posted
People like you are painful.
Stop suspecting some hegemonic power wielding a crystal ball and enforcing an oppressive state over the rest of the so-called down-and-out paupers.
It's SOOOO easy on this game to make credits. Literally. You weren't making much money from mats before? Pick up a craft...
What is this? Do you honestly expect something for nothing? I'd also like alternate options on everything. PVE gear, PVP gear, in fact, I don't want to lift my finger for more than a few clicks to achieve anything in this game.
Do you seriously believe it's an acceptable situation that gambling machines have nullified every single gathering crafting craft in this game? That our advice going forwards to new players would be "Don't bother with crafting, get yourself a slot machine."