I sorta thought the story was the point? Also that is like saying everyone was druids in WoW. Also everyone is currently Sorcs and assassins anyway.

The holonet says the guardian is a specialization not a class. Without going over my previous arguments you are making in incorrect comparison. JK (AT) -> Guard (Class) -> Defense (Spec) Melee (AT) -> War (class) -> Prot (Spec) You see the problem here right? Your Archetypes are not comparable. You can argue the initial point but you cannot make the comparison.

1. On the Holonet Bioware calls "AC" Specializations. 2 On the Holonet Bioware calls "base classes" archetypes 3. The Jedi Guardian and Sentinel both use Jedi Knight skills and gain them to 50. 4. By the definition an archetype cannot be a specialization it would have to have no common traits or abilities. 5. While you gain new abilities the base traits do not change from Knight -> Guardian. 6. Prototype and base design = Jedi Knight.

Generally we are just saying it is unnecessary to have AC restrictions. They don't seem to serve and really useful purpose when there is no new story to see and as far as play style changes go, they are the same as other games that do allow dual spec. I just cannot understand what benefit is being offered by the restriction.

That would be comparable to changing from a Knight to a Consular. We are not talking about that.

We are on the same page but different parts.

LOL it's a specialization according to the holonet. Click on one of the archetypes aka bases classes and be amazed. According to the holonet it is as I say above a specialization. http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/trooper

LOL Where in that page does it link to an Advanced Class? Why are only the base class links there. Why after clicking the base class do specializations (AC) now become available. Why would any rational person think for one second that a "class" based on another class could be an archetype when the definition says it has the be the base/prototype. Read the page again slowly. They are clearly referring to the 8 base classes that the stories are based around. There is absolutely no connection between archteypes and AC on that page either in what bioware has written or by the words definition. I can't say it any other way, you are simply wrong.

No they don't. Show me where on that page an AC is listed. The BASE classes are listed as the archetypes and the AC are specifically called specializations. It's not even ambiguous. You even posted the definition. Both Sentinel and Guardian are based on the Jedi Knight class, you know the original aka archetype. just to quote it again.

You gain access to talent trees at 10 in WoW which you can put points into. Again I am talking about how the AC play vs talent trees, not the exact setup. A Jug is arms/prot and mara is fury in effective function. I think you are being intentionally obtuse intentionally here. When did I ever say a Warrior = Druid or can ever be a druid. I never one made the direct comparison between sith warrior and sith inquisitor. Which has nothing to do at all with the comparison of the AC or according to the website are specializations and talent trees.

Technically then you should ONLY be able to play a DPS or a Tank or a Healer. There should be 3 AC and 1 talent tree in each.

I guess arguing it that way for me would be: It limits my party options and changing my AC does not net me any new content.

I am saying Sith jugg = Arms/Prot in form and function Sith Mara = Fury in form and function. Each AC defines a set number of roles. They oddly seem to mimic WoW talent trees in that regard. The inquisitor is just a druid in form and function. If the story was different they sure AC would mean something, but they don't. AC are a best a throw back to older gaming while in effective gameplay options a copy of WoW at worst regression. Ya the 4 base classes per side which they list below it. I must be missing something here...

Ya that is like saying fury and prot used different weapons. Fine I will give it to you one dual wields one is sword and board. No different then Fury and Prot. Ok lets look at this another way. The AC specifies your roles and the talent trees define their function. In WoW talent trees did both. All that the AC are doing is allowing Bioware to limit the types of roles you can play (DPS/Healer/Tank). Regardless of what AC you chose its roles and what it allows you to do is no different from a WoW or Rift. Again Sith Warrior = Warrior Sith Inquis = Druid You simply due to AC cannot chose to dps, tank and heal with one character of one base class. Either way class specializations are limiting when the effective gameplay styles of each are represented in talent trees/souls.

They do it because they are capped out on their main or hate the class. Once you have done all the zones alts are not fun to level.

Different weapons you say? Armour I will give you as it is heavy vs medium. They do use the same resources, have the same story, both are melee. Inquisitor is a better example but they still are a carbon copy of a druid. That is why I keep wondering why people are making it seem like AC are something unique and special. AC just restrict roles for whatever reason but "functionally" play like WoW talent trees. Sith Jugg -> Arms, Prot Sith Mara -> Fury Sith Sorcerer - Tree/Boomkin Sith Assassin - Cat/Bear To add more fuel to the fire http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/sith-inquisitor They do call them specializations not AC. See what I am getting at above.

Sage and Guardian are from different base classes.

No it's not. Both sentinel and Guardian are part of the Jedi Knight parent class. Going from one to another is not changing between two parent classes (gear,resources and story) Hell a druid changed roles and resource with a change of talent tree. Your example is terrible. Arms -> Fury -> Prot. Prot -> Holy -> Ret. AC just represent roles in function. Again Druids, Paladins, Warrior, DeathKnights, yawn, etc. It's Bioware just labeling something to try and be unique while functionally it is not. That is, it is a copy of WoW or Rift.

They said the VIP store was the VIP lounge. The fact they already waffled on the issue is telling.

Neither do the AC. They are all still coke.

They also said there are 16 AC when effectively there are 8. Bioware has said lots of things that are true on paper but not really true once you get in the game.

Actually they would not be. Rift had far more uniqueness in each soul then SWTOR has in talent trees. They would have to add AC switching (Roles via souls in RIFT) to copy them.

AC amount to nothing more then role restrictions because Bioware didn't want to carbon copy WoW. In this day and age role restrictions are a poor design choice. SWTOR is "innovating" in the wrong direction (again).

SWTOR AC - Tank/DPS Tank/Healer/DPS Healer/DPS WoW Talent Trees - Tank/DPS Healer/DPS Tank/Healer/DPS DPS While I get what you are saying with regards to the talent trees in both games defining a role, in SWTOR are they effectively tied to the AC. I am not arguing as to what bioware has done, I am saying they simply added another (redundant) layer that doesn't effectively add anything. If you removed the additional talent trees within the AC and just used the AC as the 2 base talent trees you end up with WoW talent trees. No we are complaining because it is a bad design if you compare it to other current western MMOs. I really don't see the point in restricting the potential roles a player can bring to the table.

What is so unique mechanic wise with a SWTOR AC vs a WoW talent tree or the RIFT soul design? AC change the role vs Talent Tree/Soul changing the role. Also in case someone points out Sentinel, see Druid or Cleric. If the AC had a unique story I could see the point but it is the same regardless of which one you pick.