Ran another NiM EC tonight. 20% crit rate on the proc. Interestingly though, i noticed our sentinel with a 30% melee crit rate only got a crit rate of 20% as well with the corrosive injection proc relic. I ran a few more parses on my gunslinger vs. the ops dummy. Still getting near 40% crit rates with the proc relic to my 20% crit rate with the sage. I actually got a 30% crit rate with the campaign version though I only ran one parse. Maybe it's just the gunslinger that's broke lol. Anyone else have any numbers for different classes using this relic to confirm/ refute my theory?

No, a sage/sorc wouldn't have a 50% crit rate on it with the current mechanics if we were to use thrash/DS to proc it. I never suggested using thrash/doublestrike or becoming a mellee class. The proc procs off ranged force attacks (our entire useful armament). We are a ranged class yet our proc relic crits as if we were a melee class, and our melee crit is not affected by our primary stat. You dont understand the issue i'm trying to have addressed here.

EDIT: Please note the assumption i made in this OP are wrong. Please see page 3 of identicle sorc thread. The different proc relics use different crit stats to determine a crit. In summary: Internal=tech Kinetic=tech Elemental=force Energy=force Oringal post: Noticed last night my pathetic crit rate for this proc relic. Looked into it a bit and I feel Sages/Sorcs are getting screwed with the crit mechanic on these relics. I believe the underlying reason is we are really a melee class (have a saber and free melee attack) yet our melee crit rate isn't affected by willpower. It looks to me as these proc relics use range/melee crit rates Using dummy and Dread guard relic of dark radiance Slinger with internal proc relic (DG) -> his ranged crit rate is 41% (tech is 40%). Relic critted 43%. http://www.torparse.com/a/57367 Sage with internal proc relic (DG) ->melee crit rate 21.28% (force crit rate 37%). Relic critted 15% http://www.torparse.com/a/57392 I can find sentinel parses from our guild using the campaign version (burning force) which crit for >40%. http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/eef14011-5c5c-4c8c-a7c0-7bc5555b45a3/player/8#d=0,b=1 You could speculate that my low crit rate on my sage is just RNG. But from last night's run i was 19.5% relic crit rate with 3 hours of log data. http://www.torparse.com/a/56888 http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/6e252dc9-6bda-4919-92e6-fa34905f0054/overview#d=0,b=1 Looks like sages (and i'm assuming Sorc's) get screwed. Willpower doesn't affect our melee crit rate so it's always goign to be lower than other classes. This is broken and needs fixed

EDIT: Please note the assumption i made in this OP are wrong. Please see page 3 of thread. The different proc relics use different crit stats to determine a crit. In summary: Internal=tech Kinetic=tech Elemental=force Energy=force Oringal post: Noticed last night my pathetic crit rate for this proc relic. Looked into it a bit and I feel Sages/Sorcs are getting screwed with the crit mechanic on these relics. I believe the underlying reason is we are really a melee class (have a saber and free melee attack) yet our melee crit rate isn't affected by willpower. It looks to me as these proc relics use range/melee crit rates Using dummy and Dread guard relic of dark radiance Slinger with internal proc relic (DG) -> his ranged crit rate is 41% (tech is 40%). Relic critted 43%. http://www.torparse.com/a/57367 Sage with internal proc relic (DG) ->melee crit rate 21.28% (force crit rate 37%). Relic critted 15% http://www.torparse.com/a/57392 I can find sentinel parses from our guild using the campaign version (burning force) which crit for >40%. http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/eef14011-5c5c-4c8c-a7c0-7bc5555b45a3/player/8#d=0,b=1 You could speculate that my low crit rate on my sage is just RNG. But from last night's run i was 19.5% relic crit rate with 3 hours of log data. http://www.torparse.com/a/56888 http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/6e252dc9-6bda-4919-92e6-fa34905f0054/overview#d=0,b=1 Looks like sages (and i'm assuming Sorc's) get screwed. Willpower doesn't affect our melee crit rate so it's always goign to be lower than other classes. This is broken and needs fixed

Removed my post. Thought it was a dps relic discussion.

the ideal BIS crit rating is as low as 164 with level 61 gear for lightening spec due to the autocrit of end line ability.

I assume he is precasting crushing darkness. Other than that yeah you should only cast cd with wrath proc. Alacrity does affect FL. Since your channeling it 50-60% of the time some alacrity is better than pushin your surge extremely high because of dr with surge. Daelia posted the exact ratio of surge : alacrity for bis somewhere in this forum

Well most refer to that build as a hybrid build not madness/ balance. Using simulations pure balance has slightly higher theoretical than hybrid though you lose out on some burst potential. R u referring to dummy parses? Whoever is claimin they are parsing 2k on an ops dummy, without the use of an armor debuff or sent/Mara buff they are most likely exaggerating. Your numbers look about right to me though I haven't parsed a dummy for months. Parses on actual boss fights are tough to compare as mechanics between encounter favor different specs. For example,I have been running mostly tele/lightning though recently switched to balance/madnes for 16 man tfb. However, only puzzle boss and final boss favor the dot specs imo. I haven't run hybrids since double dipping and Pom were nerfed. I feel it is inferior for both pve and pvp but there are others that strongly support the opposite view. As for the rotation, that hybrid probably has the easiest and most boring rotation. Clipping dots or prematurely ending your channel are common mistakes. Latency/ lag maybe another reason you feel you are falling behind in dps. Lag and the horrible queuing system can really be detrimental to a heavy channel spec. Keeping deathfid and crushing darkness sync'd as much as possible will help your number a bit (with the rotation you posted your death field and CD are already unsynced by about 6-8 seconds)

I dont think we are playing the same game. Gunslinger has more utiltity and more survivability, even with force mend. What current ops boss can you successfully heal as a dps sage. that's right none. However a 20% less damage aoe shield for the raid sounds pretty good to me. If the healers die at 10% ... it's cooldown and max dps time imo. Doing a disservice by trying to heal anyone. (example kephess/TFB and basically anyother encounter)

20% alacrity from gear would be a terrible idea.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=499627

That was true before 1.4. Better force means more thrashes / energizes/ shocks -> more threat and more harnessed stacks. You can thrash now semi- regularly and still have force to keep 100% uptime on other stuff. To the op, if shock is off cool down you should cast it with or without the proc. use thrash if you are riding high on force and shock is >1.5 s from end of cd.

New relics are coming with 1.5. Same procs/ clickee's as always but better stats. So I'd save your daily coms for that. I'll probably alternate between a warhero defense, click defense and proc shield depending on the fight.

2% isn't much but it adds up especially since sins have the lowest armor rating. 4 peice bonus is essential. I'd go with endurance augments... There is no DR on endurance and will help your self healing a little. With those numbers you are into Diminishing returns for the stats.

Clairvoyance in Seer tree 3% Companion accuracy bonus 1%

This! Spec'd ss to try out the aoe mitigation versus all the smashers. Incredibly irritating bug that's going to make me unmap natural cover and just use regular cover. I got in the habit of using natural cover all the time and positioning myself such that I would utilize it all the time ....getting this bug on 8-9 of every 10cover attempts.

If you have enough people at ranged you wont have the reticles hit the people in melee range. So ensure you have some ranged at range and you'll have a better time stacking on the boss. If you are running melee heavy then you should be at ranged running around in cirlces trying to dot/hot/bubble yourself and others and just trying to buy time so the melee can finish it up.

Was looking through our logs from tfb the other dayand it's usually ~ 4.5k though i did see one 4.8K.

The pre 1.4 proc relic and the war hero relic parse almost exactly the same. Think when i did it the proc relic was 1 dps higher. I would suspect the post 1.4 relics will pull ahead but the difference will likely be tiny.

The spec listed on noxxic under balance /madness is actually a popular hybrid though a pure madness is better post 1.2. Here is the best pve madness talents. http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/86318b2a-febc-40d0-97bc-00f49f95ee45

Another Sniper MM BiS http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/69c49536-f6dd-457e-a0f0-a06f34742f93 http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Sniper#6k898cce3e-fc-i Apparrantly sims at 2060 dps.

For DF you need high crit for energy management. That's less of a concern for SS. You autocrit occasionally with charged burst which devalues crit a bit. Anyways, I just provided a simcraft output that is supposed to be BIS, however I'm not going to say its the absolute best way to go as I really haven't done much sim'ing myself with the slinger. Looking a little closer at that simcraft output the crit scale factor is much higher than power so it probably not perfectly balanced. I have also found a bis list for pure SS with higher crit. Anyways, I find using simulators a great way to min max. I'd suggest using it with your gear setup, see the stat weights, make an appropriate change and re-sim it to see the difference. It's incredibly easy to do and just imports your AMR profile which you already have.

It's pretty close. You could swap a little crit for power. Here is sniper Bis for reference http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/43bfd9b5-2950-4591-b092-ace4562b7d5d http://www.simulationcraft.org/swtor/130/Sniper_Raid_Campaign_BiS.html

The animation/ delay of pre 1.4 force wave combined with lag made our kb near useless. Post 1.4 with the instant cast and improved distance should at least help a bit with the lag issues. Much easier to knock someone off the rafters in huttball. Much easier to kite on other zones. Pre 1.4 it was ~50% success to kb someone off for me.... now it's probably >90%. Lag + delay = useless skill. Lag + no delay = better.

It's all on mmo-mechanics. It's all been figured out there. Look there is you want an inteligent discussion on gearing. The official forums has too much chest pounding and epeen stroking to have any kind of real discussion ... This thread is a perfect example of that.