I count 5 comments in this thread alone, and your first one was to berate the one guy for daring to argue his point. Do you always base your conclusions on whether or not you like the way certain people are acting, versus the merits of the debate itself..? By the way, over-worrying about being bullied by some unknown terrorist griefer because he thought your stats were funny... DOES smack of paranoia. I am not saying that YOU are paranoid, or any particular person that holds that notion. But the notion itself most certainly is. And it rings very fake, as well.

Yes it can. Those people may still get groups because the people that play with them think like they do. But on a contained server, you can dis-associate with people like that, and eventually you'll not be dealing with anyone who thinks they're cool. With cross server, there's no way to do that at all. I've actually come to be in favor of cross-server queuing for lower level content and normal mode flashpoints, though... I think Bioware was right to wait for the levelling curve to get higher, where original people on a server could have a chance to form more of a community, but now the game could definitely benefit from a higher chance to get groups, especially for levelling content.

Wow... What a sob story. If someone's life is so lame that they feel like the best use of their time is to monitor people at attack dummies, then why would ANYONE care what they think, anyway..? Personally, I think you're just making crap up because your entire argument is so flimsy. Most of the people are claiming they dont want others to see their performance because they might get dropped from a raid. Those people either need to improve, or find some less judgemental people to play with.

I guess the word "CONSISTANTLY" is something you're unfamiliar with... And I highly doubt that people follow you around just to log you so they can make fun of you. And even if they did, so what..? Grow a thicker skin. Add them to ignore.

When did I say no one had a right to disagree with me..? Seems like you're the one that wants to shut other people down by claiming offense and saying that we don't have a right to say it. No combat log or parsing tool has EVER been public in any game that I have ever played, and I've played all of the AAA MMOs and most of the minor ones. You actually have to group with someone for them to be able to consistantly monitor your performance. As for e-peen strokers... What's to stop them from doing it under the current proposal? They can just copy their own logs and paste them to general. The paranoid part comes when you insist that some meanie might upset you because they have metrics they can somehow grief you with.

Very sensitive people in this thread, eh...? My opinion is that her opinion smacks of paranoia. You want to shut that down by claiming that I shouldn't be able to voice my opinion because it somehow belittles her or anyone else that shares it. It's simple, really. If you don't want to be griefed by e-peen strokers that misuse tools, don't play with those people. I certainly won't. And I'm rather glad that they announce to the server that they are jerks by publicly stroking their e-peen, because it allows me to quickly add them to ignore. But denying a tool to people who would use it properly just because you're afraid of what some jerk might do is ludicrous.

So why are you so desperate to play with idiots that want to insult, belittle and annoy you..? Those guys make it to my ignore list pretty quick. I don't shed a tear. Seems like at least a few very vocal people here are afraid they would either get insulted, or "forced" to use metrics if they wanted to raid, but there should be enough of you to band together and form your OWN raids, where you don't have to require anything that you don't want to require.

Exactly how would "my" implemation process remove any choice at all..? You still have the right to choose who you group with and what tools you use.

Either way, all you have to do to get what YOU want is simply not use logs and meters. If the people who hate metrics truly are the majority, like you guys say, then you should have no trouble at all finding like minded people to play with. Meanwhile, he can play the game the way he wants, and so can you. But you'd rather try to force him to play it your way.

^^^ THIS!!! 1000 times THIS!!!

Right, I'm sure it never bothers anyone when they spend weeks farming for something, only to have the devs put it on a vendor soon after... And unicorns shoot flying pigs out of their butts.

Don't feel bad. It's not exactly an obvious error message. A lot of people had that problem, including me.

Nope, not misunderstanding at all. I avoided people who used gearscore like the plague, because they were generally bad players who didn't understand that gearscore wasn't the be-all end-all. I also avoided people who were posting ridiculous dps requirements for fights that didn't even HAVE a dps requirement, or had one that wasn't nearly that high. And, though I am in favor of full combat logs and metrics, I also avoided e-peen strokers, because those are the guys that ignore basic fight mechanics and get the entire raid killed just so they *might* squeeze out another few DPS points. **EDIT** That being said, I am in favor of allowing those things to be in this game, because it makes it really easy to know who I want to avoid.

Yeah, so he will know that he spent hours on end to get something, and he'll feel dumb when they turn around and start practically giving it away, since he could have just waited for the give-away instead of wasting his time. It's not about what other people have. For instance, any farming on the Belsavis boss for crystal patterns is now time completely wasted, since right after we got them, they get put on sale on a vendor in the fleet for next to nothing. Why bother to do the content if everything ends up being sold for credits..? No effort required.

You... dirty elitist you..! For shame that you should DARE to ever want to play with people who you know will hold up their end of the deal... For SHAME!

Because you care so much what they do. It's obvious in every post you make. I LOVE that they stroke their e-peen. Then I can identify them easily and ignore them so I never have to play with them. You on the other hand, don't want people to have metrics even if they aren't using them in an immature way, which leads me to believe that you want to hide something. Your own poor performance being the most likely.

And... AGAIN... Why are you so desperate to play with those people!?!?! I see someone using meters to stroke their e-peen and the first thing I do is thank them for outing themselves as idiots and add them to ignore. Immature people are going to be just as immature, whether there are logs or not.

And more than once you people have said that people who want logs are bad because they're a "crutch"... which is laughable, but the point is that you think their style of play is bad, and they think your style of play is bad. Only problem is, no one is forcing you to play with the people you think are bad, and no one is forcing you to use meters. Find people who don't want to use them to play with. But instead you want to force everyone else to play like you want to play. Who's the hypocrit?

I actually can't argue with that one too much. As long as a raid leader is able to see the data, that's all I really care about. We used to have mini-competition between similar classes to see who could out-perform the other (outside of the fight mechanics, of course) and that was fun, but I can live without that as long as leaders are able to see who is underperforming, and they're able to either help that person get better, or remove them if needed.

And again, if you hate those people so much, why are you so desperate to play with them? There seems to be enough people like you that don't want to use metrics. Get some of them together and have your own style of "fun". Personally, I highly doubt that 15 other people in the operation are going to think it is so fun to wipe over and over because your "fun" build puts out half the DPS everyone else does.

Actually, it's people like you who want to force everyone else to play the way you want to play. You got butthurt once because someone used raw data to criticize you, and now you don't want other people to have any metrics because the meanies might come for you again. But even if combat logs and DPS meters are in the game, no one is forcing you to use them, and if people are misusing metrics to judge you unfairly, why would you want to play with them, anyway..?

Okay then, here is a question for you. You're leading a raid and you have 2 tanks, 4 healers and 10 DPS. You keep failing on a boss, not because people are dying to boss mechanics, but because your dps is slow and the boss keeps enraging and wiping the raid. How then do you tell which of your DPS is underperforming, and what do you do about it?

Combat logs don't teach you how to play the game. And trial and error doesn't work when you have no data. You don't know which "trial" gave the "error". It's lame to want everyone to wallow in ignorance just because you're afraid that someone might call you out on your lack of performance. The reason that the content has to be so insanely easy is because they have to account for the fact that a lot of op groups are going to have failbots in them that the raid leaders can't root out. Nearly all of the bosses in this game have an enrage timer, and thus a dps requirement. If that requirement isn't being met, it would be nice for leaders to know who isn't meeting it, and have some insight as to why. Your posts smack of someone who was booted from a raid for poor performance in the past, and now you're desperately afraid that someone might find out that you never really "L2P" like you like to tell everyone else to do.

I guess there will always be people who desperately try to justify rude and shallow behavior. May most of your time be spent waiting for objectives to respawn, after you've cleared most of your way to them, only to have someone else run in and grab them while youre fighting... and may the mobs you cleared respawn before the objective does, forcing you to kill them again while someone ELSE runs in and grabs the objective. Hopefully on endless repeat.

And you and your buddy are just peein' into the wind because neither of you has any real data to figure out anything. Guesswork isn't skill. You're not super awesome hardcore because you don't use metrics. Data is not a crutch. People like you don't want to see the data because you're probably NOT doing the job right. Cool story bro.