Hi guys, I was doing "Most Wanted" (Belsavis Smuggler quest) I had a friend that was fighting the mobs while I looted the weapon cache. A blue box popped out of it and there was something there for my buddy that was helping. However, I never got the quest update for looting the weapon cache, and I can't re-loot the crate. What can I do?

This is a very well written and well thought out post. I like how you managed to balance all the professions pretty well, while maintaining worth in each. I especially like your choice to move the aim/cunn armoring to armormech and will/str to synth, while still maintaining the vast variety for mods in cybertech. It would feel a lot more balanced than what it is today.

I was absolutely going to come into this thread and make a combat log joke. Glad to see someone do it. @OP - everything you know is purely anecdotal. "We couldn't do it with a scoundrel healer, but then a sage came in and we succeeded. Ergo, the healer was the problem." That MIGHT seem like a logical statement to make, but it would only make sense if everything else was constant. Did the Sentinel wake up and start interrupting? Did you make better use of your cooldowns? Did you just take less damage due to RNG? Did other people take less damage from moving out of things? Another major thing is: Was the Scoundrel healer a "good" player, but he was not able to carry your underleveled toon through? Did the Sage basically "carry" you by healing you significantly more than is expected from a healer for that level due to having a far above average skill? Basically you're blaming the healer for being "bad", when it could just as easily have been you being "bad", and a merely "adequate" healer wasn't good enough. Perhaps you needed another overleveled, highly skilled player to cover for your deficiencies. Without a combat log (note: combat log = death log, interrupt log, dispel log, damage taken log, healing log AS WELL as damage log), you won't ever know the real answer, and hold on to your notion that this scoundrel was terrible with no actual data to back it up.

Grats on doing things on the hard mode (16 man) I hope that, like in WoW, the actual tougher difficulty (25 man in WoW) becomes the community standard for progression.

Hi there, thanks for the guide! For a primarily PvE player trying a Sab/DF spec, is Sabotage really that good? Reading the tooltip tells me that approximately every minute, I get an extra 50 energy and ~650 damage. This feels somewhat lackluster. Is it better in practice? I'm only level 38 at the moment, but I was thinking of going for something like this (again, purely for PvE): http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700ZrIbboobZGbbkrMhd.1 With Shrap bomb, shock charge, vital shot, it would appear that wounding shots would be a higher DPS upgrade than sabotage would (considering the 50 energy is most likely spent on extra charged bursts where you'd have to use flurry of bolts otherwise). The other build that does take sabotage would be: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700ZrIbbRoboZGbbkrMh.1 We lose wounding shots and 4% crit on wounding and speed shot, but maintain the energy regeneration from DoT criticals, as well as gain additional energy savings from dealer's discount and sabotage. Basically in the end, I'm trying to evaluate how good Sabotage is in the grand scheme of things for PvE. Thanks!

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I don't believe you. You didn't have a: /1 (Rot #) Serranex is casting Complete Heal on %T /cast Complete Heal /delay 45 /1 (Rot #) Setanian is NEXT! macro? The clerics in your guild manually typed out who was next? They had an egg timer to tell them the delay? Damage meters also existed on EQ. Your officers probably used them.

You're right. The best gamers are the one that can adapt to both a healing role and a DPS role when given the correct tools. Not the "omg, my guild is gonna ask me to DPS and I hate it WAHHHH" type.

Then don't. Don't get it. Join guilds that don't require it. It's not that difficult no? Or say explicitly in your guild app "Will ONLY DPS/Tank/Heal". To be honest, it's not that big of a stretch. In WoW, when a healer applies, they apply as a healer, and they are basically expected to heal. If a healer WANTS to offspec, we let them. When a fury warrior apps, we don't immediately make them get a tank offspec (unless they request it). Obviously having flexible people is better than not, but you really only need 3-4 flexible people in a 25 man raid, or 1-2 in a 8 or 16 person op. You don't HAVE to be one of these people. So here's the thing, you got asked to DPS, and you said yes. Your other option is to sit out and have your guild recruit a DPS, then rotate you two in between fights depending on the encounter. Which do you prefer? It's not a bad thing to think the latter. We had some great healers asking to sit out in Firelands since healer requirements ranged from 6 to 4, and the healers really did not want to DPS at all - much less at a level that's required of them for the extremely hard bosses. What in the world is this? Dual spec defines the end game in WoW? Jesus christ. I don't even know how to respond to this drivel.

Noone would force you to DPS if you wanted to. What would you rather do? A) "We have 1 tank, 5 DPS and 2 healers online, because our 2nd tank is MIA for some reason. Guess raid is cancelled." B) "We have 1 tank, 5 DPS and 2 healers online, can someone that doesn't mind go into tank spec for tonight? Would be appreciated! Let's kill some bosses!" I'm a DPS player. I love to DPS, I love to compete (lol, can't do that here without combat log though). However, I'm also a team player. If they ask me to heal, I'll immediately respec, throw on my healing gear, and heal just so we can continue to progress as a guild. They know I'm a world class DPS player, but a weaker (albeit solid) healer. They expect great things when I DPS, but when I heal, they expect solid play. This is what the concept of a team is about. Not, "If dual spec is implemented, they will expect me to play my off-spec that I HATE HATE HATE!"

If you can kill every boss in the game without recount (not only the DPS side, but the death log, damage taken, resources gained, healing done etc.), that means the game is far too easy. If I can hit any combination of buttons and attack any target I want and still beat every encounter, then you're right, you don't need recount. But it's also not a game I want to play (but maybe you do).

There are no cons with dual spec. In addition, if we do get dual spec, I'd like for them to add in an "outfitter" type UI functionality to save gear sets.

I'm curious what you think slicing should be then Leper. You've convinced me that every gathering skill can make millions of credits except slicing and that you can make 3x what pre-nerf slicing makes from UWT. You've made relatively strong arguments regarding how competition is negligible, and thus, the "no risk" factor of slicing is completely negated. Should slicing be buffed to 3x its previous level? Perhaps more? Maybe you get a mission discovery every time with any lockbox mission? What should be done about it if pre-nerf slicing was still underpowered?

What crew skill IS worth your time at level 50? Would you click a couple times to do UWT or diplomacy? Would you go out of your way to grab a bioanalysis or scavenging node? I guess my point is this: At level 50, from what I read in this thread, the "only" way to make money is to use level 50 revenue streams - killing lvl 50 mobs, doing lvl 50 dailies, doing lvl 50 PvP/space missions. This would probably hold true for every other crew skill, not just slicing.

Just saying this is an excuse for bad players. Good players do everything you say you do, AND put out top notch DPS. I was assigned to do interrupts one time. Although I could've just wallowed and did garbage DPS since I had a crucial role, I continued to maximize my DPS while performing my role. Doing something you shouldn't be doing is not an excuse for poor performance.

Damage meters existed in PoP. Most guilds did not use them. My guild did. We performed far better because of it. You know those 5k DPS in WoW when the average is around 20k? We had a couple of those. It wasn't a big issue, let them know they probably should use skill X, and suddenly our guild as a whole was way better. So basically you're asking for content that can be face-rolled. That's fine. I respect that. However, just know that there are people out there that enjoy something resembling challenge. And a challenging encounter SHOULD require absolute understanding of the encounter - and this cannot happen without a combat log.

Good work. You've managed to tap a market that was untouched. Do you think that if every single slicer decided to drop it and went UWT, your profits would stay the same? The major issue is that an infinite number of people can do slicing for an infinite amount of profits. The rate with which that was happening pre-nerf was absolutely unacceptable. You're right, the risk is low at the moment, but we're always talking about lvl 50, markets stabilizing, and all that. Once all that is said and done, I will argue that UWT will have far higher risk - as people start under cutting each other, and generating massive amounts of supply. This is where I both agree and disagree. You are taking a large risk to craft items that are in demand - you are hoping that nobody else is as smart as you (and frankly, you might be right). You are hoping that nobody else sees that "oh wow, UWT is amazingly lucrative, let me flood the market!" These are all risks that are not apparent to you at the moment because of how infantile the game's economy is. In fact, I would have to agree that should you choose to take on these risks, you should earn more money than slicing - which is a completely zero risk endeavour. The point is once again, not that you'll get rich off slicing. The point is that from levels 10-49, I'm earning a level 50 salary. Using one of your own analogies, it's more like earning $300 a day when you're 10 years old, but then not having that increase until you're 30 (lvl 50), then having that increase (through lvl 50 revenue streams) like everyone else. No, you're not loaded even making $300 a day, but you'll live a very comfortable lifestyle without any real productivity. This is the major crux of the problem. Again, I agree with you. Without competition, UWT or the other mission skills are money makers. With an infinite amount of competition, slicing will win every time. Where the break-even point is, really depends on the game's economy. You've continually advocated that you can just grind mobs at lvl 50 and make more than slicing. Killing mobs, doing dailies and quests are also money creators. In addition, nobody ever needed slicing to make money. Quests, sporadic PvP, sporadic space missions, flashpoint dailies and all that provided more than enough credits to buy all your skills (including speeders, inventory and bank slots), and the rewards provided enough gear to complete your class quests. Costs do NOT outweigh income across levels. Where the imbalance occurred is when a level 20 is making a level 50's salary. Crafting is separated from the actual questing/storyline. As you've so mentioned many times, you need to at least break even or profit from your craft by doing positive value things. The people that are completely broke are the ones that do stupid stuff with their trade skills. Slicing throws this dynamic out of whack, because you're able to do everything you want, and then some with slicing at any level. Without risk. Without interaction with other players or any sort of productivity. I enjoy games where risk is rewarded. I don't enjoy games where everything is handed on me on a silver platter. I apologize for not having an entitled mindset in anything I do. In fact, don't take that as an insult, because from your posts, I can tell you've put a lot of thought into playing the GTN and making a massive profit - which is exactly what should happen. It's the principle of slicing that was so absolutely broken in the first place, that lvl 20's think they're entitled to lvl 50 profits without any risks. Costs at lvl 50 are a very small part of the game. The fact that you can have millions of credits when you're lvl 20 with ZERO RISK (again, you can start with 1000 credits, and just do nothing but click buttons and be GUARANTEED a lvl 50 income), is the problem. The fact that there's no competition involved in slicing is a problem. Money generation from quests and leveling are far more than enough to cover leveling costs. It's that people feel entitled to, as you say, burn money doing useless craft skills, destroying their mats and still come out ahead. That's what slicing allowed people to do, and that's why it had to be nerfed.

I think it's pure data that slicing is still profitable. Not 50-116cpm profitable, but I believe a larger data set shows that it's about 20cpm without counting crits, mission discoveries and the like. I'd say (and pulling a random number out here), that it's probably closer to 30-40cpm when everything is factored in. I'm not going to wave my epeen and say how many credits I have and what I've purchased, but I'm wondering how you can even argue that pre-nerf slicing wasn't by far the easiest, lowest risk and most profitable trade skill. People were earning 200 credits per minute just on lockboxes. An army of 8 alts with 2 companions each (investment of 40 hours - 5 hours per alt), would generate 3200 credits per minute, or about 200k credits per hour. There's no marginal decrease in money generation with slicing. I could have 2 accounts, and double my credit generation to 400k an hour. However, if I had 16 characters with 2 companions each doing underworld trading, the market would get flooded rapidly, and I would start losing profits. Now, I'm just going to put it out there that I don't believe your statement that you can make 500k credits every 15 minutes at level 50 - I'm not there yet, so I can't really attest to it, but if that is possible just from whacking on mobs as you say, then it should be nerfed as well. The point is, 200k credits per hour is a lot within the environmental costs at this game at any level. Arguing that slicing profits were some how negligible, even pre-nerf, is asinine.

But see, you get kudos for actually taking the risk with underworld trading, being one of the few that leveled it up to a point where you are getting significant returns on your missions. Here's the caveat though - you got rewarded for your hard work, and understanding the marketplace (heavy on slicers, low on underworld traders, high on underworld trading demand). If everyone switched to underworld trading, all of a sudden you won't be making as much profit as you used to. For example, right now to get 6 xonolite bars, takes about 40 minutes and 2000 credits, and you can probably sell each bar for about 1000 credits. That's approximately pre-nerf slicing rewards. However, you not only had to invest that initial 2000 credits, you had to pay an additional deposit on the GTN, as well as hope someone needs xonolite at the moment and is willing to pay your price in order to reap your reward. Pre-nerf slicing, you just put in 2000 credits, got 5000 out, every 25 minutes, like clockwork. No risk. No headaches with the GTN interface. No dealing with other people. No hoping that it won't sell. No worrying about getting under-cut. Just pure profit. If you don't feel like you should be rewarded for dealing with all the crap that comes with selling to other players, and that slicing should have the same rewards, that's fine. I'll be slicing on multiple characters/alts continuously if they ever buff it to that level again, to make 8x the profits. You could try doing underworld trading on 8 characters, but you might find a point where the market is flooded with your goods.

A lot of people also consider mission discoveries to be worth 0. They're not. Especially as more and more people drop slicing. The fact is I at worst break-even on my slicing missions, then every mission discovery is pure profits. Every single node in the game (and there's a LOT of them), is pure profit. You guys think that other gathering skills have high demand? With all the posts about how 400 crafting skills are useless, I'm surprised to see people thinking mandalorian iron has high demand. I see people selling a stack of 99 bondite for 5000 credits, and 99 fibermesh for 7500 credits. Assuming you get 3 bondite/fibermesh per node, that's 33 nodes -> 12500/33 = 379 credits per node (assuming someone buys their stuff). Alderaan slicing nodes give between 500-800 credits. Seems like slicing at least in line with the other professions.

Yes. Yes it was. Granted, fewer guilds killed pre-nerf M'uru, but it was nerfed within a week of the first kill, while Ragnaros was not nerfed for 1.5 months. As an encounter, Heroic Rag is by FAR the harder boss.

I had to log in just to comment how amazingly well put this post is. I'm almost certain that the anti-macro/addon people have no idea what a macro or addon even is. I don't see how Bartender4 makes me play so much better (rather than making my UI nicer) or how Bagnon increases my DPS (puts all your bags into one slot - much like how SWTOR's inventory works). I'm reminded of the dual spec debate - and anti-dual spec people thought dual spec was talking about switching advanced classes and not just changing talent points.

Seriously. 10-49 and 50's. 2 brackets. Simple solution. The bolstering system works really well. I had great fun PvPing at lvl 24 or so a week ago when there weren't a lot of 50's. Suddenly the last couple days I've ran into several premade lvl 50 groups with expertise gear, and it's not even fun.

Seriously slicers, you're not doing anyone a favor when you buy their goods. Unless you dump every single credit that you gain from slicing back into the economy, then you are still getting further ahead of everyone than you should be. A parallel would be a billionare CEO in real life asking for tax breaks so that they can hire more people at slave wages, then being outraged that their tax break was taken away. Trickle-down economy does NOT work, since everyone always slices (hurrr) a piece of the pie to keep for themselves. Crafters BARELY break even when you DO spend your "hard earned slicing credits" on their goods. I know, since I have both a slicer and a cybertech that has RE'ed every single lvl 19, 23, and 26 earpiece and have been selling them as much as I possibly could. It's like "well, I spend about 6000 credits buying something off the GTN when my bankroll is near 2 million credits...now that slicing is gone, I'm not spending that 6000 credit... the economy is ruined!" Anyways, I'm glad it's nerfed. I'm sad I didn't set up a factory with 8 alts like I should've, but I did get a nice chunk of change that I can use for quite some time.

Just from my early experience, vanguard = shadow >> guardian for tanking. Commando > Scoundrel > Sage for healing.