You are the one who chose to attack me. I simply proved that you were, at best, mistaken and, at worst, less than honest.

That is not a "no", but it is not a "yes", either. The answer depends upon YOU and how you answer the question you chose to ignore. What is "productive" in your mind? Is discussing reskinned, renamed, recolored versions of those past rewards "productive" in your mind? Is "productive" in your mind only discussing how to make those EXACT past rewards available again?

You're right. I'm the only one who opposes allowing people to have those rewards they did not qualify to receive. Oh, wait... And those are just from the first two pages of one thread that is still on the front page of the suggestion forum. I may be the most vocal advocate of not making past rewards available again, but I am hardly the only advocate for that. I also advocate making reskinned, recolored, renamed versions of those past rewards available again, and using new, different systems for those rewards. In the eyes of some, I still fall into that "big, bad, mean bully" camp, though.

What would you consider productive? Is discussion involving reskinned, renamed, recolored rewards "productive" in your mind? Or, is "productive" in your mind only discussing how to "stick it to those big, bad, mean bullies" who had the audacity to meet the criteria to receive those past rewards? You have already shown that you are not willing to accept "reskins" or anything other than being able to, in your mind, "stick it to those big, bad, mean bullies" who's only crime is that they actually met the criteria to receive those past rewards.

Basically, you will settle for nothing but those who did not meet the criteria to receive those past rewards being able to receive those past rewards and in your mind "sticking it to those big, bad, mean bullies" who's only "crime" is that they actually DID meet the criteria to receive those rewards. I get the feeling that "sticking it those big, bad, mean bullies" is your true main objective and that those who did not meet the criteria to receive those past rewards are only a means to an end. I guess that green eyed monster runs very much deeper in some than others.

I guess you think you know more than that court.

While I think that a better alternative would be a different chapter using those reskinned companions, I recognize that BW might not be willing to expend the resources for that different chapter. If a new chapter were cost/resource prohibitive, then reusing the existing bonus chapter with the reskinned companions would be an acceptable compromise, IMO, even though I would prefer a new different chapter with those reskinned companions. I don't think it has to be one or the other. I think both types of systems have their advantages. During "content droughts", the continuous subscription model or time specific reward model could be better for BW, but the "total time subscribed, even non continuous" would still allow players to be rewarded. This is why I think it is better to run both "veteran reward" and "time specific reward" systems concurrently, with the rewards being similar but different. I go back to all of those players who openly bragged about unsubscribing during KotFE with the plan to resub for one month to get access to all the remaining chapters, dismissing the HK-55 chapter as being "garbage", despite knowing nothing about it. After the bonus chapter was released, and was met with the acclaim that it garnered, how many of those players immediately started clamoring for a "second chance" to acquire access to that chapter? How many of those same players are now clamoring to get their hands on that chapter they CHOSE not to obtain?

That is wrong. Here is just one example in which there was nothing explicitly stated, only implicitly stated, yet the court ruled that implicit agreement was binding. You are only promotions can be exclusive and that is not the case. Exclusive promotions can also use exclusive products as rewards, even if those "products" are not explicitly stated as exclusive. Try going to a ball game with a give away promotion for the first 1500 people through the gates, and asking for the product from last year's promotion. Let me know how that works out for you.

The devs could make a statement that past rewards will not be offered again, and people would still be making threads "I know you said 'No' on this date, but what about now? How about now? Have you changed your mind yet?" There would still be those who acknowledge that BW has already given their answer, but they are just asking for a different answer now. I can't say that I blame the devs for staying away from this one. All one needs to do is a quick forum search using terms such Nico Okarr, HK-55, Shroud of Memory, Shae Vizla or subscriber rewards to see that these "requests" have been made numerous times for years, and while BW may never have come out and used the exact word "No", most reasonable people would realize that their answer has been a pretty consistent "No", even if that "No" was unspoken or unwritten. That answer of "No" has not stopped all the continued pestering of the devs and the spam threads from people "expressing interest" in those past rewards or "just looking for a different answer now", though. If this topic seems to be a "trigger happy" topic, a quick forum search using any or all of the the aforementioned terms would probably give one insight as to why.

I guess you conveniently forgot about the Senya Holostatue (Hutt Holotrainer reskin). The Hutt holotrainer was a pre-order reward and not a subscriber reward, but it still remains exclusive to those that pre-ordered that expansion. I've not done a count, but I would guess that rewards not being made available again are up by more than double digits over rewards that have been made available again, although not all of those rewards are subscriber rewards. Not available again include, but are not limited to: Hutt holotrainer HK-55 Hk-55 weapons HK-55 jet pack HK-55 bonus chapter HK-55 helmet Nico Okarr Nico's duster Nico's blasters Shae Vizla Party Jawa Gannifari HK-55 ship droid customizations Eternal Empire patroller mount HK-55 victory stronghold decoration Available again: Daggerstar

Given BW's history with regards to the overwhelmingly vast majority of past subscriber rewards and other rewards, reskins may be all that is offered, no matter how loudly or how long the "I want that EXACT shiny that Billy has. A blue ball is not good enough because Billy has a red one." crowd clamors on the forums. You may call it a false olive branch, but if the choice is a reskin or nothing, which would you prefer? Remember that BW makes that call, not you, not me and not any other player. BW has shown many times that they are more than willing to offer reskins, but the overwhelming history has shown that they VERY seldom will offer past rewards in their original form again. Sure, people can cling to that daggerstar, but one item in a sea of items is usually and exception, an oddity or an aberration, and not the norm. Can BW change their stance and make that the norm? Yes, but they have so shown no inclination to do so, despite all the spam threads asking for this reward or that reward to be made available again. That, of course, does not stop the continued pestering of the devs driven by what boils down to nothing more than the green eyed monster that apparently consumes so many.

I like the concept that you propose. Is your proposal "going forward" or would you expect it to be retroactive?

I think that XP bonus armor set would be very desirable. I also think that there are two pitfalls with using that armor set as a reward again. 1) If they made it available again for any means other than the same criteria that had to be met during the DvL event, those who already earned it could potentially feel "slapped in the face", especially if those new criteria were substantially easier than the original criteria. 2) What do you offer those who already have that XP bonus armor? Those same two pitfalls would apply to any of the past rewards, no matter which specific one you want to use. This is why I suggest leaving past rewards alone and offering new rewards, even if those new rewards are only reskinned, recolored and renamed versions of the original rewards that have the same functionality. Now, if BW wanted to offer a new XP bonus set of armor with a different look and different name, then those that already have the original bonus armor would be able to get something new and feel less "slapped in the face" as it would be a different set with a different look. BW could even use the "look" an armor set that is already in the game as "convert that set" to be legacy bound with mods identical to the original XP armor set. I think these would be great ideas. While it would likely take quite a bit of additional work, BW could even produce a bonus chapter for each of those two companions. Maybe offer a choice of the two companions for three continuous months of subscription and for an additional six months continuous subscription access to that companion's bonus chapter. Those months of continuous subscription could be any time, and therefore available to all, so long as they are willing to sub for the required number of continuous months. I would order those differently, with number one being moved to number three (only because there is no lower number), and moving two and three each up one spot.

I think almost any of the past subscriber rewards would meet your first criteria, but I doubt that any of those past subscriber rewards would meet your second criteria. If you wish to use items that have already been designed, then i would suggest reskinned, recolored and renamed versions of those past subscriber rewards. I do not know for sure, but I would guess that it is far easier and cheaper to recolor something that has already been designed than it is to design something new from the ground up. These reskins would likely also have the advantage of meeting your second criteria.

Since the DvL event was not time specific, if BW wanted to rerun that event with all the reward qualification criteria being the same, and offer Master Ramos as the light side companion, I would have no problem with that. That, however, would not guarantee anyone who did not meet the requirements to receive Master Ramos the first time would receive Master Ramos the second time, even if they met all the criteria to receive the "winning companion". The dark side companion could easily win, especially since may will already have Master Ramos and there would likely be a new dark side companion.

I have advocated running a veteran subscriber reward system alongside a time specific subscriber reward system with the two systems having different, but similar rewards. What those rewards are would ultimately be up to BW, although I'm sure many would add their input as to what they would like to see as rewards.

And what happens when the people who "weren't around" for this "bunch of limited time 'do these quests to unlock this macguffin' deals for each old sub reward" complains about not being able to obtain them? I find it ironic that so many people want to complain about missing out on limited time promotions, but "suggesting" that new limited time promotions be offered so they can have those shinies they KNOW they did NOT meet the criteria to receive, but want anyway. Basically, their "suggestions" translate into "I don't care about anyone who isn't here now, I want those items so it makes no difference if I 'wasn't here' for the promotions. BW owes it to me to let me obtain them, and as long as I can get those shinies, anyone who comes later can do without them."

Because rehashing old content has been so successful in retaining and increasing subs so far, right? IMO, it would be better for BW to offer new rewards and incentives via alternative means, either replacing the time specific reward system or run in parallel with a time specific reward system with similar but different rewards.

Again, the Senya holotrainer is simply a reskin of the Hutt Holotrainer with the same functionality, much like the celebration Jawa is a reskin of the Party Jawa with the same functionality. They have not offered the Hutt holotrainer again, by any means, unless I am mistaken. That reward remains exclusive to those that actually earned it by meeting the criteria that BW set forth.

I guess I forgot about BW making that Hutt holotrainer available again. Oh, wait...

If, by "fair minded middle ground", you mean a way that those who KNOW they did NOT meet the criteria to receive those past subscriber rewards can have them anyway, then there really is NO "fair minded middle ground", IMO. You can call it what you want, but that is really is just "let me have what I want even though I KNOW that I did NOT meet the criteria to receive it for no reason other than I want it". If you fail a test at school, do you expect the teacher to give you a "second chance" to earn an "A" on that test? After all, anyone who actually earned an "A" on that test when it was given would still have their "A", right? If you don't meet a production goal for a given month and miss out on the bonus for that month at work, do you expect the boss/company to give you a "second chance" to meet that production goal for that month and gain that bonus? After all, it wouldn't affect the bonus that anyone who actually met the production goal received, right? If you didn't get a limited edition game systems, would you expect the producer of those game systems to make more of those limited edition game systems so you could have a "second chance" to have one? After all, it wouldn't affect how any of those "first run" game systems worked if you had one, right? Now, if you want to have a productive discussion about "fair minded" alternative subscriber reward systems GOING FORWARD, that is another matter entirely.

For many, it is ONLY about the "thing", as evidenced by the numbers of people unwilling to even consider reskinned, renamed versions of past subscriber rewards. In addition, do you really think that if BW were to make HK-55 available again, and gave all those who actually MET the criteria to receive HK-55 during the initial promotion a set of HK-55 armor, let alone a set of HK-55 XP boost armor, that the froums would not blow up with all the crying about that armor not being available to everyone?

I think we found the root cause of your not qualifying for HK-55.

In fact, many of those advocating that past subscriber rewards remain exclusive to those that actually earned them (even if all that was required to earn them was being subscribed on a particular date) have also advocated BW offering reskinned, renamed versions of those past subscriber rewards. That is not good enough for some, though.

Some people know there are no scorecards, and are simply grasping at any straws they think they can find, and trying to throw a much crap at the walls as they can, in the hopes that the tiniest fragment will stick for a second. Many of these same people seem to think that only THEY can determine what items can be exclusive. They want limited time item X to remain exclusive, but limited time item Y cannot be exclusive. As an example, many of those people seem to think that the past season PVP rewards must remain exclusive but the past subscriber rewards cannot be exclusive, despite the fact that both had to be earned, albeit through different methods.