No, I'm sure other level 50's feel the same as they enjoy owning. The 50 bracket should of been put in weeks ago. I'm not even entering warzones again until they patch this stupid system. -Gratus

Oh what a surprise, an Op/Scoundrel QQing about people stating the obvious thread after thread. Ops/Scoundrels need to be hit with a bat the size of a house. This. -Gratus

lol In my entire history of playing MMO's since 97' this is the first time I actually find myself hoping for a nerf bat the size of a building to fall on Ops & Scoundrels. But back on topic; yea, I could see why your two classes would not find 50's a problem. -Gratus

Let me guess, you're 50? Please don't try to make excuses or decisions BW makes seem logical. I don't buy the reasons they've given at all. It's obvious the priority list for "things to get done" for release were all pve-centric. A 50 bracket should have been in from the start, let alone "now". -Gratus

Thank you for explaining that. With all respect, despite its sub numbers, not all of us played or care much about WoW and have no clue what MS means. MS may have become a generic term among wow players but can assure you in the rest of the MMO universe it's not. -Gratus

Understood. This is why I've been doing a ton of PvP on all my characters from a very early level. The past week or so have just become so absurd. Half the time it's not even a match, just a farm fest. Do what's fun for you; but in light of the pending 50 bracket, we'd get it here a lot faster if folks at lower levels would take a break from PvP. Just my educated opinion knowing BW looks at the stats. Have fun. -Gratus

Your misinterpreting my post. I'm not calling for a boycott to make some sort of statement. I'm seeing the source for a great deal of the frustration by the "under 50"s" and simply suggesting a way to avoid it and in the process by avoiding it would likely result in a faster implementation of the bracket. Let me guess, you're 50. -Gratus

Aside from class balance issues, and some are major, the 50's are destroying the fun in warzones for those of lower levels. It's simply not fun. So why don't you guys under 50 just stop going to warzones for pvp when you know the 50 bracket is on its way and would be here a heck of a lot faster if players simply didn't que. BW would notice and likely push the patch which should have been pushed weeks ago. I love PvP and on multiple characters have my valor equal my actual level, but I won't subject myself to this nonsense until the bracket is in and wish the community would wise up and do the same. Thanks -Gratus

I feel we deserve communication and introductions to the team responsible for PvP mechanics and balance. A message board should be a place where constructive discussions occur and community hopefully come together with the common aim of making the said subject better for all players. In the absence of participation from the PvP Devs, we appear to be fighting amongst ourselves and have little faith it is serving any purpose. Where is the communication, particularly such a critical aspect of the game; you know; Imperial vs Republic, as in "PVP"? I'd rate the PvE in SWTOR a 9. It's a lot of fun. Unfortunately for me, PvP is more important. I'd rate the PvP in SWTOR as a 5. The balance and mechanics are horrid. Thank you -Gratus

I'd say that about sums the entire debate up. Yes cloudxshadowbane - What Bnol is saying is all the operatives & scoundrels can say and it fails hard. -Gratus

So which of the two OP classes are you Rasui, an Operative or a Scoundrel?

lol You mean, "It's ok if I have an "I Win button and Get out of Jail free card" because I can't win against 3+ players at one time. Great argument. How many years and games have you experienced PvP in? Just trying to understand your level of experience in these matters? You've heard from more than one including me who have been at this since 1997 and countless MMO's how bad the PvP mechanics & balance are in this game. It is what it is and what it is requires a better PvP team of Devs because it's clear those in charge currently simply don't know what they are doing.

Agreed. It's too bad because I actually like SWTOR far more than I thought I would, but it's turned out to primarily be a PvE game and that alone isn't enough for me and most pvprs. With Lineage ][ F2P now and its grind removed and GW2 on the horizon I'm not particularly concerned as there are games I enjoy now and will in the future. It's just very frustrating to see pvp in SWTOR handled so poorly and the potential for it being so much fun is lost.

Without arguing your claim of "top of DPS ladder", that statistic doesn't make the point you are attempting to make. If you are range and able to spam dps you will show as doing a ton of dps on the ladder. That doesn't equate to number of kills or utility of a class to escape death. There are plenty of posts about Sages & Scorcs and it's obvious to most that the issue is with Socrc and not Sages mainly due to the animations placed on Sages preventing them from using a series of skills as quickly as Scorcs can; but really, that is another discussion topic. I don't enjoy these discussions and it's unfortunate they are even necessary. The Devs. of a game should have a competent team with experience in PvP who play their own game and know all this without us telling them. That is their job, not ours and they have GM powers to roll classes at any level to make it even easier to do their job. The PvP team, if there even is one, needs to be replaced with PvPrs who actually understand PvP and balance. -Gratus

Yep. I too have been playing PvP-Centric MMO's since 1997 when UO released and the reason for the number of calls for Operatives & Scoundrels to be castrated is for good reason and they know it. The BW PVP team needs to be replaced TBH. -Gratus

Amen What I don't understand is why a gaming company doesn't put out a modern UO in its early glory. -Gratus

Spot on and my main concern. They need to hire a better PvP design team in way of mechanics. -Gratus

I wasn't in closed beta, just the weekend ones. My understanding from guild mates who were in closed beta is the overpowered pvp issues with Operatives & Scoundrels was articulated very clearly and often. The Devs. simply did nothing about it. -Gratus

This. Oh wait, Bioware already knows it. I expect no change. just being realistic.

It didn't escape beta any more than how over powered Operatives & Scoundrels are. I have been told by closed beta testers it was expressed, explained, and yelled out loud numerous times but nothing was done or has been. I also hear the Devs prefer playing Sith; wonder why. How a game with this budget escapes professional management is the most amazing aspect of it all.

There is plenty of reasonable posts on this board, many from Operatives & Scoundrels who care more about fun PvP than being the pwning OP FLOTM class. Here's a video worth a 1,000 words.

This has been explained to me previously. A guild mate told me Closed Beta Testers also told them at length how over powered Operatives & Scoundrels were and still nothing was done let alone the lack of any bracket, etc. Not encouraging at all. Lineage ][ is F2P now and can level to 65 in less than a week. I think I'd rather play there and have clan wars and castle sieges at no cost. -Gratus

1) UO 2) Asherons Call (Darktide PvP Server) 3) DAoC 4) DFO early on before every player had the exact same skills.

It's obviously a PvE game first with PvP very very low on the list of priorities.

What perplexes me to no end is how the developers don't actually know this. It shouldn't be necessary to have this conversation on a forum. There aren't that many classes and there was a closed beta test which by the way, told the Devs. how OP Operatives and Scoundrels were. If I was a developer of a game with this budget and number of sales, I'd "KNOW" first hand what the heck was happening and not need to rely upon a message board. Either the Devs don't care at all, or the priority of PvP on its list is at the bottom. -Gratus