MuNieK
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Posts posted by MuNieK
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what's moving or rotating?
the whole point of the warzone is to shoot down the enemy ship... you want to just get rid of the ship?
the trees don't move or rotate. they're static objects with no skeletal/vert deformation. they are minimal on resources at best.
Let me explain this to you:
all objects in the area are moving and roating while you move your character. By moving character you are moving camera, and from camera point of view everything is moving and rotating. CPU have to calculate all those moves and rotations before sending it to GPU to render.
I mentioned optimising ship, cause there is always room for reducing some polygons noone ever sees (from back side of the ship for example - it could be flat untextured wall).
Hope it sheds some light on it for you.
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indeed
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About 30% of the time I leave one of those green quest forcefields while mouse steering I get randomly turned around backwards. Is that what you're talking about?
Yes, there is plenty of ways to make it happen but i have learned one. Here is the 2nd video showing it better:
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but then it could be possible only if both player and alt is lvl 50.
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This is not a criticism of your anti gold selling point - just made me think of something actually.
If this game is doing so well where are the gold sellers ? I appreciate that there is absolutely no nedd to buy currency in this game but it has just struck me that this is the 1st mmo I have played where I have not been mailed or whispered regarding buying gold.
Maybe BW have got some magic software that stops them
Its still fresh game and so far people dont have anything to spend money for and have plenty of money. - no good customers base for the farmers.
The golden rule is simple: if there is need for something, there will be someone and a way to provide the goods and a way and people to pay for them.
None WAR ON DRUGS and WAR ON GOLDSELLERS wont stop them. If some rich person want to buy credits - reducing unpleasant waste of time, the poor person gonna invest his time to provide the credits for real life money. Its simple as that.
Developers should never fight it - they should just adapt so the in-game currency should not give e-peen anyhow. Then its all fine and everyone is happy.
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its all about extending playhours so you burn content slower... its ugly. You are naive you think walking to bodies and clicking them have somethign to do with immersion.
Problem is that developers instead of focusing ultra great games, focus on artificially extending time to burn content by players... Hence slow speeders, cooldowns for quest abilities etc.
Good developer will create big zone and give fast speeders - bad developer / dodger gonna create small zone and make you walk/drive slow.
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some of us like to pretend we're living in a virtual world... you know, immersion and all that jazz.
I guess that's just not as good as instant-everything, huh?
Ah so thats why Dark lord of the sith is looting some pawns for credits?
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Just been reading some previews about up and coming mmos (won't say which or no doubt will get the usual comments) and 2 things caught my attention which they are implementing.
1) Auto loot from mobs without having to click on anything. In TOR I started out clikcing on loot, seeing if anything was better than I had and equipping it if it was. After a whil that gets to be a pain so changed it to just auto loot - but of course you still have to click to pick it up. Then I would just see if I had picked anything useful when inventory became full and was destroying/selling stuff. So, if people have auto loot turned on then why do we have to click on anything ?
2) Instant post. Why do we have to wait to receive post from other players/alts etc ? I know mail from alts is instant - not sure about other players as have never had to send/receive mail from them (probably cos I'm too sad for people to mail). Howevere I have seen posts saying that credits from selling geare take an hour to arrive. Why ? The main point howvere is a soon to be released mmo has instant post and does not require mail boxes. Mail is built into the UI. Seems like a much better idea to me. Never seen the need to hunt out a mail box.
2. anti-gold-sellers feature
1. i agree... its getting boring to click to loot - its nto a fun feature... should be auto-loot (companion should just pick it up automatically while in range of remains and not in combat and put it into inventory)
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Any news about fixed alt-targeting and click-targeting?
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=276977
Any news about fixed camera so it doesnt have this awkward movement smoothing and random spins?
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=62987
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=281433
If it wont get fixed within this subscription cycle it will be a shame to loose another load of subscribers.
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-30% to heals
in PvP
Ok im sure this is a hot topic a while ago but i just dueled a jugg that 3 shotted me and a merc dps that tracer missiled me to death., without healing.Does bioware realize how much of a nerf this is i mean seriously did you minus the DPS 30% or just my main attack by 30% such a slap in the face to healers. I mean we are few and far between and you want to nerf us this much. If i dueled my guild mates without the 30% debuff i would STILL LOSE by a large margin and to give you a standard we are in nightmare mode raids all but soa down in NM mode and you all can guess why bug after bug after bug after bug but thats another rant. My gear is outstanding for pve VS other PVE my heals are still -30% this is so messed up. No words can describe how ridiculous this is.AND on another note could not kill anyone in outlaw's den to test without dueling. YET ANOTHER BUG. Cant wait for the next raid teir really is the boss gonna stay in his hover and kill us all or are we gonna solve the puzzle perfectly to have 15 elite rick astleys kill us or wait maybe half the zone wont spawn and we can try and kill the boss anyway this game BLOWS yet i still pay 15 bucks a month because i know you can fix it. Its like my 17 year old pot head bro is the lead game designer and he procrastinates every fix until the supposed next patch. BIOWARE do you realize everyone thinks your so called fixes and UI changes are BS? that they will believe it when they see it?
Wall of text crits me for over 9000... Use some formatting and paragraphs man... Its just hard to read like you posted it...
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Indeed. There should be no responsibility-free chat using in game. ANd there SHOULD be community being alive on servers and be community that matters.
x-realm queues are doom of any community.
Just yestarday i have had extremaly frustrating warzone and i almost begun reposnsibility-free chat frustration-venting where i have realised those are nto random people ill never meet again so i should rather reconsider venting my frustration on them
Thats how it should always be. -
For games, a general optimization post-production is to eliminate any unnecessarily complex models, remove as many vertices and faces as possible and offer alernate models for lower performance graphics settings.
Exactly. It seems this phase was skipped by Bioware. It was created, accepted, and never optimised.
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okay two things here. first of all, i have a high end pc, and my fps is permanently at 60... but that's because i enable vsync. if i disable it, i get ~119fps but that's a waste of resources since my monitor refresh rate is only 60hz.
second of all, using a 2d alpha masked plane costs MORE than making a tree with 1000 triangles in terms of both rendering and storage space. an image with an alpha channel is twice the size of an image without one. using alpha in games is a very costly technique, and comes with other inherant problems like sorting.
your solutions aren't solutions at all, they're just more problems. i tell you what though, visit this forum, and ask in the technical discussion section which solution would be better: http://www.polycount.com/forum/index.php
it's a forum run by games developers, for games developers and aspiring artists. it houses artists from blizzard, blur, bioware etc. as well as programmers and technical artists.
Ok i wont argue about storage and rendering stress cause im by no means expert here, but how about calculating movement, rotation etc? Dont tell me that 2d object with alpha will devour more resources than some 3d model with 1000 polygons when it comes to movement and rotations - and thats what happens when you move camera and your character around, right?
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Digression:
Someone mentioned sarcastically removing everything from enviroment and even clouds from warzone. You know whats most funny? I bet if there would be such simple warzone and people would be able to choose on which to queue it would be most popular becouse vast majority of pvpers praise smooth fps over sightseeing while pvping.
But of course its not reasonable way to go. Reasonable way to go is somewhere between sightseeing and empty enviroment to get great performance and still nice look.
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the other thing here, is that it depends how you define unnecessary objects.
in terms of general gameplay, there are lots of things that don't need to be there. you don't need the trees in the background, you don't even need the hills, just make it a flat surface and off you go.
however there is this thing called immersion, which is generally quite important to gamers. what you're asking to be removed here, is the same as asking for pieces of paper blowing in the wind to be removed from BF3, or maybe even remove the clouds in the sky, and everything that's outside of the playable map area... yeah you heard me, just make it a flat plane with a tiled texture and be done with it. after all, it's just a game and we all know that outside of that playing area nobody cares about.
but seriously, set your shader settings to very low, and you won't have any more fps problems. it's the shaders that are causing the fps drops in SWTOR, not the polygon budgets.
So first you say reducing amount of objects far in distance or replacing them with something simple is "no-go" cause of immersion, and then you advice me to turn off shaders?
Havent tryied it yet, but i will just out of curiosity try to get to alderaan c.w. and see if it will grant me smooth 50-60fps in warzone which i doubt. - But still, its not a "fix" even if it would work as you say and as i doubt, becouse i didnt bought new high-end PC to play with lowest shader you know
I paid expensive game to play with nice visuals on optimised enviroment.Anyway: The immersion you are talking about aplies differently for movies and differently for games, especially where pvp is involved. You can have immersive enviroment done in smart way by really great pros. Its not an art to just put a lot of objects to achieve immersion. Its an art to create immesive neviroment which will take least possible PC's resources so they can be used for other tasks and grant smooth gameplay on high-end PCs.
If there s a ruin with a lot of polygons far away, it can be optimised by putting simple transparent 2d texture imitating 3d object. IF players never see rear of the ships, they should be optimised and all unnecesary polygons should be removed. If your game is dropping fps on high-end PC you may consider removing all objects that will have little to no impact on the immersion (hardly visible change) but will reduce stress they put on PC a lot. Thats the art of opitmising enviroment and you need really smart developers there - not just the ones with nice artistic talent - other way youw ill have harsh gameplay. And harsh gameplay wont help players get immersed into something...
edit:
did test: FPS maybe go like 3-8 higher - so it still perform poorly but then also look like some game from 1995
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o-o
How have I bashed you?
I've provided all parties involved with information that they can choose to ignore if they wish.
Or, they can take a little time to learn which relevant areas will support their technical bickering.
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I realise you are feeling under attack
I hope you will appreciate support to your thread.
Pardon me choose of wrong words perhaps. I ment that there is no need of throwing unneccesary technical information into discussion while they dont deny the fact i mentioned: more unneccesary objects = less performance.
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thanks for clarification
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I don't want to get into the technical side of this, mostly because the game runs fine on my PC.
However, looking at the OP's screenshot, I do see a bunch of red circles around background objects I don't think I've looked at once in about 1,000 WZs.... so he does have a point there.
oh thanks god for the voice of reason! You see people? A smart person who tolerate any fps drops he receives in game / dont notice any fps drops and yet he takes his time to think about subject before writing.
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o-o
....
It is of course possible for a game to be CPU-bound rather than GPU-bound but the OP's point about polygon count being the bottleneck rather than shaders is likely false as for modern games it is fill rate (fragment throughput) rather than polygon count. Shuffling lots of data across the buses and to the GPU per frame can of course be a bottle neck but once the data is in video memory then you are in the domain of shaders as you cannot actually draw anything without shaders on a modern GPU.
Polygons are transformed by shaders and pixels are drawn by shaders. Shader complexity is probably the biggest limiting factor of any nth generation game engine. Triangle throughput has been very high for quite a long time but throughput aside, it's the pixel shader that is usually straining the GPU the hardest (although of course the pipeline will be balanced where possible).
A fairly simple (but not bullet proof) way to test if a game is fillrate bound is to change the display resolution (or run it in window mode and resize the window). If your FPS increases drastically when your display resolution decreases, your are probably fillrate bound as you are rendering the same amount of geometry albeit with a considerably higher fill rate (remember that doubling the display resolution quadruples the amount of pixels to be draw).
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ARE WE TAKING NOTES?
THERE WILL BE A TEST LATER
Still the point stands: more unneccesary objects the lower the FPS. Dont bash me with the technicall terminology. Im not into 3d, however im following logic: the model to be rendered must have polygons or whatever else as substitute - when you move - when camera moves, all those polygons/whatever must be calculated in CPU. The more unneccesary objects = the lower performance. No need of escalating discussions into technlogody news and advanced tech poems.
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Moderator removed my counterarguments - i wont rewrite them to proof how wrong you were - you already know where you made errors in your reasoning.
Moderator seem to overlook your lying tho. I never said thing you imply i did.
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Im still leveling my character and been only few ties on WZs. I have noticed at the end of Warzone you get rewards like: exp, credits, valor, commendations. But i have also noticed two things i dont yet understund:
1. medals
2. the voted thing
How does those 2 things work?
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Ah well...believe what you want. I would recommend taking some courses on this subject matter before trying to school a development team with 15 years of experience. Not saying BioWare is perfect, because they do have major issues still, but they clearly don't need your help.
You dont need technical courses in case where all you need is logic and bit of exprience... More objects = lower performance. More unnecesary objects = more unnecesary stress on hardware. Why are you advocating them? Bad performance may ruin great title.
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If you are seeing marked improvements in upgrading your CPU, again, your issue is with draw calls.
Call it however you want, the point still stands: If you will have 10 high-polygon objects (let it be some ruins) running around the camera point, they will be rendered at higher fps than if there would be 100 of them... So why arguing with the fact that reducing polygons count would adjust fps?
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i'm a character artist, and i'm going to say once and only once:
polygons aren't causing low fps. at all. it's the shaders they're using that cause them.
Oh of course numbers dont do any harm... only that they influence the outcome. Especially if engine is bad and ruins performance while shading the polygons you should make sure you dont overdose polygons... Its logical and not seems like rocket science. Think like a Sith, dont try to fight jedi in the forest, burn down the forest with jedi inside.
Dont try to fix the shading for years to help it get better performance with your polygon overdose - reduce the number of polygons. Noone is even looking on those things i marked...edit:
and its very curious what you are saying, denying that the polygons have great impact on performance... Cause i have had recently my old PC having troubles with running BFBC2 smoothly no matter of the shader version. Now with new CPU it runs like butter - with same GPU.. even bf3 runs smooth like butter. So you're trying to tell me the CPU is doing shading work?
- of course its polygon number reducing performance.
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Your definition of "high-end PC" is certainly underwhelming. My PC's 18 months old and I am running dual GTX 580's. I still class it as high-end but only because not much else has come to out date it due to games slowing down their progression because everyone seems to have bad PC's or wants to play games on consoles.
Hehe are you using your pc to run games on 3 screens or maybe some proffesional rendering which utilise GPU cores or maybe you are streaming high resolution online? Otherwise you have just wasted a lot of money. gtx480 is more than enough to achieve 60fps in swtor at 1920x1200 unless it gets bottlenecked by CPU. And it happens on warzones - my i5 2500K got hammered down so much that my gtx480 need to wait for it to process before it renders frames - hence i get fps drop. What you describe as your PC config is called overkill.
I paid expensive game to play with nice visuals on optimised enviroment.
OK 17 FLEET INSTANCES??? Seriously ***?
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by MuNieK
so how does it work? Can people still communicate with each other on other instances?
edit:
how do you know there are some instances? I see only 1 fleet as before, with 84 people on it atm.