So many mercs complaining that their pve dps spec doesn't automatically win them the game in Huttball.... Guess what? As an assassin my darkness spec is great for pvp and gives me tools to win Huttball games but it completely sucks for anything other than tanking easy instances in pve. If I want to do well as dps in pve then it means my spec COMPLETELY SUCKS for pvp. So join the club.... you don't get one spec that makes you great at every aspect of the game.

I like the format of Huttball because it only takes a small part of the team playing the objective to have a chance of winning. Civil War and Voidstar takes the whole team playing the objective to win the game... that is hard to do in a pug. Huttball on the other hand is great when you just get a few people willing to do the right thing and actually play the game instead of deathmatching in the middle. More maps for Huttball games would be great.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrokdskZbMZcMcRd.1 Ridiculous force regen from stealth Force pull for runners and huttball, or to pull healers away from the fight Lower coolddowns on important pvp skills Force speed breaks roots/slows Maul is ready to go when you need it (at full force you get three with the proc). Death field for runners or to open a fight Crit damage added to thrash, your main attack mid-fight Higher shock damage (15%) combined with chain shock Energize to keep crits going which have synergy with exploitive strikes Enjoy

I kept seeing these "Madness is awesome look at these huge numbers threads"... I tried it, and kept getting killed over and over and over without doing any substantial damage. Then I found the key... tab, discharge, tab, discharge, tab, discharge...... I came out with 50% more damage than anyone in the WZ's. The problem is I never did any USEFUL damage to anyone. Dotting someone and using broken game mechanics isn't being useful. As darkness I can stay alive long enough for my team to make it to the door to help, or alive long enough to hold a turret till help gets there. Really, what does madness do when they change it so dots don't prevent capping? (I promise that change is incoming sometime soon).

The light armor vendor on Tat sells a robe that looks like the one on the right. If you want the hood up then get a orange head item that is a headband style, it allows the hood and head slot to show at the same time.

Assuming you are 50.... I am in a darkness spec, 23/4/14. It is bad for pve dps. It is ok for pve tanking. It rocks for pvp. If you want to look at an "assassin" type situation, this is what I do.... Have stim on, use expertise (red) consumable, use relic, pop recklessness. Drop death field from stealth (3k), maul twice (3k+3k), shock (2.5-4k), then assassinate (3-4k). You have to be somewhat smart about targets, don't try this on a commando that will bubble and pop defensive stuff, use it on a squishy target. I've done plenty of 1v2 fights this way since the first target drops almost immediately (they don't start fighting till the second maul) and the second is already down 3k. If you pop shroud and deflect at the right times the second target doesn't even hurt you. Honestly deception and madness both suck in pvp. I have tried over and over to make them work and you simply die too fast. If you have a pocket healer glued to your *** you might do ok, but I promise I can do even more with a darkness spec and a pocket healer.

They are insanely useful.... if they heal. So many pew pew mercs/ops running around playing deathmatch while the other team scores over and over. If they keep their team alive then the other players with the larger amount of utility can be their tools to win the game. But no, must pew pew pew and gather up the kb's. Went against a team of 4 mercs the other night, it was 6/0 us because not one of them would leave their perch and do anything other than shoot people.

Unless you are tanking then a hybrid build with death field still far outweighs going 31 darkness. Thrash 50% crit (combined with 15% crit rate from pve gear) and death field nuke with 30m range. Harnessed darkness is ok for making up force when you run dry, but it gets interrupted far too often.

Even at 50 and with good gear madness/deception get you killed quick. Madness is somewhat usable due to dropping death field on a group and then lightning discharge spam on everything, followed by aoe knockback. That will generally kill all the normals but you are still left fighting the silvers. Put it this way... at 50 doing daily's I lose 30-70% hp in madness or deception on a single group. In darkness (something like 25/2/14) I can clear a group with 80-90% hp left and keep moving on to other groups. The difference is huge. Just stick with darkness to level and run any solo pve at 50. Honestly the class just fails to compete at group dps (hard modes and beyond) which means if you stick with darkness then in group settings you can get a tank set and still tank for the group (tanking is very easy in this game). There are people that will argue with this, those are the people getting carried by ranged dps or a marauder.

Can you put a link to that? It can't be found with a search of the forums unless it is under something obscure... Anyway... I use it and don't care. I have watched as my team of 8 coordinated to score in Huttball all to have it undone by some twerp that suicided and then pulled the carrier up to the ledge. Bioware's answer to that? It is NOT an exploit, even though they then fixed it. If the water is in game, it works and EVERYONE can get it. It is usable by stealth but when stealth vanishes it is ALSO usable by the enemy as well. Using it also brings you immediately out of stealth. So what if it gets you medals in warzones... EVERYONE can use it for that. You know how tired I am of playing the OBJECTIVE and getting 1-2 medals at the end of a round? At least with the water I can't squeeze out 4-5 by being the one that actually runs 5 out of the 6 goals, caps and holds the points in civil war and as the one capping the doors in voidstar. So cry me a river about exploiting.... it works, they have left it without hotpatching, and they knew the mechanics of it when they put it in game. I might have a different attitude if Bioware were punishing people for exploiting warzones by capping doors early, in stealth, pulling the carriers over the line or any of the other exploits, but they ignored those so I ignore them.

You're saying I'm wrong about the points I made about madness being weak but won't say why, then when you do try and explain it you say they are all weak. Casting weak dots to restore force is pointless when there are 50% regen talents in deception and 30% in darkness.... You seem to try to counter the argument that madness is weak when you can simply do the same damage directly in a gcd, so please figure out WHAT YOU ARE ARGUING before you keep telling people they are wrong. I like the class and like the playstyle, but BW is pushing it in the wrong direction. People like you make it hard to communicate problems effectively because you simply want to argue and say people are wrong. Also checking your post history I don't think you're even 50 yet, and that makes a massive difference in this class. Well played 10-49 you can be unkillable, it is a completely different game in hard modes and in pvp at 50.

so it's "You're wrong but I can't or won't explain why". And I'm actually a fan of darkness, but it translates poorly between pvp and pve (I enjoy both). That is the issue with all specs for an assassin, you get utility and are a tool in pve/pvp, you get damage and are a free kill in team pvp or a lesser dps than ranged in pve, or you get dots as a melee class when the alternate AC can do far more with them. You can't explain why madness is a poor melee spec because you're either a troll or because you know it really is a poor system to give a melee close range class and refuse to accept it for some strange reason.

Sorc gets everything you get plus a few tricks like cc on bubble break or root on knockback if they spec into it. Equally played there is no way to keep a sorc from kiting you (I have both). Warriors can't be fully kited because of the leap, assassins can. Besides, it was a comparison of madness abilities. The point (which seems to fly over the head of most people here) is that the madness tree does far more for a sorcerer than an assassin. If you enjoy the madness tree you can be a sorcerer and get more out of it, you can even whack people with your glow stick with the same abilities (saber strike and thrash because sorcs still get both). Madness is a ranged caster tree poorly adapted for a melee class... just like the assassin is a poorly adapted AC of a ranged caster class. At the very end of beta BW made the decision to remove the range from assassin abilities and grant it to sorcerers when they select the AC (which is why 1-9 you only have a 10m range). That was the wrong decision.... given a full 30m range on our abilities would go far to balance the class, without it this class balances out to a disabled sorcerer unless you spec darkness (which has all the utility other classes are given in their core AC, not in their talent tree).

If you're getting kills with madness it is because you are fighting someone bad at their class or because they are ignoring you to fight someone else. Please explain yourself or don't post. I took the time to explain my points, that dots are so weak simply using a base ability matches the damage... explain how it isn't......

Quit saying QQ, it simply makes anything you say sound like some WoW kiddie.... The problem with madness is that it IS a sorcerer without many of the tools needed to make it worthwhile. You are casting slow dots from melee range. You are relying on a proc for instant crushing darkness when the sorcerer gets a free instant dot ON TOP of that to cast. Put it this way... put an assassin and sorcerer facing each other and let them start applying dots on each other. The sorcerer will win every time because they will do more damage, do it from range while kiting and can reapply those dots immediately from range. Madness spec counts on the enemy not cleansing, not using shroud, not bubbling, not healing... it basically relies on the enemy being an idiot, or having so many allies on them they would have died anyway. Honestly... put every dot you have on a healing commando and tell me they can't heal them ALL in 2 gcd's.... Darkness is ok for pvp, utility and survivabilty.... the problem is if you want to pve and not tank you are ****ed. If you go deception/madness for pve then you are ****ed in pvp. Hybrid builds solved some of those problems. Now you might as well roll a ranged class because they are doing more damage, doing it easier and they have options as far as speccing into trees that allow them to pvp and pve effectively.

Been trying this tonight and for the life of me I can't figure out WHY..... So my thrash will crit for 1200+1200, now lets look at the rest. .... Any DoT.... not worth it since it takes 18 seconds to do what a thrash will do. Why use them when I can get the same damage in a single gcd? Death field.... slightly more dmg than thrash in aoe form Maul... slightly more damage IF the proc is up. Time spent trying to position is better spent doing two thrashes. At least deception specs get some good spike damage. Darkness specs get massive utility and survivability. If you compare 4 gcd's for applying DF, creeping terror, discharge, crushing darkness... any other class could have used those 4 gcd's to put out 8-15k damage to you... There are some people on these forums that, at this point, I have to wonder if they work for Bioware as forum cheerleaders or only fight horrible pvp'ers. Equally geared/skilled there is no reason another class should lose to an assassin at this point. Ending hybrids makes it worse since we can no longer make up for deficiencies with our spec. This game is for BH/Troopers and that is becoming more and more apparent as time goes on.

Well I am ranked #1 in the universe and say that you are ranked #29834729384729-3847one... since "rankings" are imaginary this is true. Video is "watch me use my op pvp healer class to completely ignore people attacking me while I heal other people". And being among the first battlemasters is like saying you were one of the first people to walk into Walmart when they opened this morning.

Nah... Sorcerers get a free instant dot they don't even have to spec into that they can tab spam, plus it is even on a 15 second timer instead of our 18 second (more dmg per tick). There would be no reason to take away a spammable dot that you have to spec into and can only be used in melee range. Overall I'm not convinced by screenshots, but I am convinced by enough people saying good things about Madness now. I'll try out a full spec tonight (same one OP linked) and report back as well.

Have you tried out deception/darkness dps in the past? How do they compare? Running a dps build for guild hard mode runs and I HATE deception. No utility, no survivability, no ranged abilities.... the damage is there IF you crit with 3-4k shocks, 3-4k discharges and pretty good mauls. The issue is it is force starved, even with blackout and force shroud about 30 seconds into a fight there is some real downtime (as I watch sorcs and mercs spam big hits). I guess the issues I would be concerned about with Madness is force point issues and raw damage output.

Raze (free instant crushing darkness procs) now requires lightning discharge to be on the target for it to work. If you are using dark charge it will not work at all. If you are in lightning charge then you aren't getting anything from Energize which is the main dps tool from darkness. That is why people are saying going up to the third Madness tier is the cap when going Darkness/Madness. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrkkrskbZZf0cRd.1 That would be a good spec for getting Harnessed Darkness while also getting huge thrash crits and Death Field. Otherwise I would say just go full 31 Darkness and 10 in Madness.

I'm using the same build except for 1 point from fanaticism moved to claws of decay. Hard to pass on 25% crit damage on our main damage ability for 12.5 force cost on death field which is usually an opener/closer for me. I also agree people are going nuts over harnessed darkness. I have it now, I see the damage it does in pvp and pve, that 25% damage over the 50% from just 2 shocks is very little. Also, although it can't be interrupted, the proc is consumed when FL starts casting and any stun or knockback or opponent death will cause it to end early. In pvp I'm lucky to get off 1-2 ticks about 50% of the time, expecting 4 ticks every time it is ready is foolish. Even in pve it gets interrupted plenty. With some of the new changes in 1.1.2 I'd be interested to know how much self healing and dps a full madness build would put out.

Mara probably has more top-end dps but it takes longer to ramp up. With a marauder you build your rage, activate bleeds, apply bleeds, then start an actual dps rotation. With an assassin you immediately roll on your rotation. In a fight where you sit on the target for a long time a marauder will probably pull ahead, in fights that are on/off then the assassin will probably do more. Without dps meters people simply cannot know which is better. Meters can be a bad thing but as long as the devs are paying attention then we really need them to brush aside the rumors of what class does what. Oh, and I was dual-leveling a marauder and assassin to 38 (2-3 levels at a time on each). I pushed the assassin to 50 and have been gearing him out simply because it is more fun, the class has more utility and I have a second role (tank) if I get bored with dps (taunts are also a nice untility in a lot of fights, even as dps). A well geared marauder is about the only thing I fear in pvp, but then again if they kill me my team will finish them a few seconds later. If I win, I vanish and stay up for the next fight.

That is my complaint.... I use it to guard people when needed and I am deception specced (not all the time). I can't force a pug'er to pass me the ball, so if he is going to run the ball then I'll guard. Powertechs and warriors don't have to have a full resource bar in order to change stances. It is something that basically takes away from the class without fixing or improving on anything. I hate to use this example, but.... a long time ago the devs for another MMO put out a statement that after long reviews of abilities and gameplay they decided that making changes that were not FUN for the players was counter to what they wanted to achieve. It was the most intelligent thing I have seen a MMO developer say. Putting changes into the game that only takes away from the people playing the one class is not fun, not needed and does not benefit any other class or remove something that has been a problem for other classes. This is simply something a class designer thinks should be there so they are putting it there.

Got the bracers from a level ~40 pvp daily reward box. Got a BH belt for their set from a blue box that was a reward for a mission on Hoth. There are a few mobs that have a chance to drop them, otherwise they are random. Sold the bracers for 150k and selling the BH belt for 200k. At 50 there is no reason to use orange slotted items like that.

Honestly this is what it all comes down to, mercs (commandos). Snipers aren't putting out the same damage due to power restrictions. No other class can sit spamming a couple of abilities and drop 3k, 3k, 3k, hits while tossing in a few instants that will pop for 3k or more. They get to avoid 90% of the boss mechanics while at the same time almost never running out of heat (a few small breaks after some loooooong rotations). What would change up things is if there were ranged mechanics added to bosses, complicated ones that forced ranged not just to avoid a brightly targeted spot but to have to move TO a tiny unmarked spot in order to survive like melee have to. Then you will start seeing groups looking for melee classes because the ranged are too dumb to play the tactics in the game. On top of getting massive damage and almost unending resources they gave the core AC healing too, so in certain fights they can stop and fill in to heals themselves and others. I honestly believe this game at one point was designed to be ranged agents, bounty hunters and sorcerer type force users so all of the content was tuned to ranged classes. Even the storyline fights are evidence since many of them aren't even possible to do as melee on the first try since it dumps you from story to fighting too fast. I think melee was an afterthought that was added on top of the current content. There really is no other way to explain bosses that all of the sudden do 360 degree massive melee damage, who knock back only melee, who cc only melee, who insta-gib only melee when enranged, who dump ground aoe's all around them only hitting melee..... If they want to increase melee dps by about 30% then it would be fine considering time off target, till then a group is better off bringing ranged.