Recruit with a mix of BH gear if you can afford the expertise drop. BM gear replaces all of it the moment you acquire some though.

Less capslock imo (italics are your friend).

18/23 in PvP should still be fine because unstoppable is just that good. With the change to sonic barrier and the change to crushing blow, it's going to be interesting to see how everything balances out between the two. I'd hazard a guess at 18/23 being slightly better on the whole, but we'll see. It just doesn't look viable to run immortal in DPS gear anymore.

You're right, carry on, misread it as saying an additional 2% >_>, oh well. Still, nothing too bad for vengeance =P

Yep, still clear HM EC and Nightmare Pilgrim each week. The only class I end up lagging behind is our marauder (who has a set of fully augmented campaign stuff while I lazily run around in unaugmented stuff), I'm only ever behind by 30-50k (depending on the fight), so I suppose if I stopped being lazy and actually augmented I'd be right up there with him. (He pulls an average 1600-1800, peaking at 1950 at his highest while I hit 1400-1750 on average and peak at 1880).

When you factor in the Adrenal/Relic Changes, here are my thoughts. Powertechs: - For Pyro DPS, the survivability will benefit them in the long run. Tank PTs will be hurting a little, but its not a huge loss when you consider the adrenal/relic changes, they'll still be able to take quite a few beatings. Snipers: - The adrenal hit is a big nerf to lethality but a huge buff to MM and engineering. Not much more to say. Marauders: - Unaffected, imho. Carnage has a smaller window for burst which makes their ravage sequence less potent, but annihalation is still going to be kicking it quite strong. Rage is dead with the adrenal changes. Assassins: - Assassin DPS will see a small resurgance since they won't be destroyed flat whenever they pop up. Good sin tanks will continue to play and be unaffected by the majority of the changes (I love the change to wither, it's so awesome for them). Juggernauts: - Tank Juggernaut Damage is going down the ******* but is stronger on the whole when you consider that they'll be able to defend nodes etc. a lot more efficiently due to the AoE. The overall damage drop on the boards really helps them more than any other tank since they'll be able to mitigate for more damage. Vengeance juggernauts are going to see a 6% boost in damage which is nice and dandy, but I'm a bit worried that it might be too much but with the changes to adrenals it might not be so bad. Rage, on the other hand is dead, without the boost from adrenals, the amount of damage it will do just won't be enough. The only saving grace for them is that they *might* take less damage if focused, since adrenals are being nerfed. Operatives: - Another nerf for both DPS specs, losing the boost from adrenals really kills the way these guys deal damage, though the survivability might be nice for them over time. Minor stat boosts aren't going to save the class though, they need to burst if they want to remain relevant. Operative healers, on the other hand, are going to have a field day. Sorcs: - Reduced burst across the board is a field day for these guys. The damage buff was slight, but the survivability changes means that they'll have a lot more leeway to get off casts and deal more damage in the long run while maintaining healing efficacy. Merc: - These guys are going to be MONSTROUS as Pyro. If you don't fear them already, be ready to bend over and TAKE IT, because with more armor penetration, these guys will hurt you like a pt pyro at long range. Good luck dealing with the kiting. On the flip side, they'll be slightly easier to kill with the changes to Custom enviro suit.

Loving these changes, Biochem can make the Adrenals/Medpacs for PvP and with no more POP ALL THE TRINKETS folks running around TTK should drop dramatically. Positioning and tactical play are going to be THAT much more important now.

They're trying to kill immortal DPS specs, which, with the changes to shadows, sort of makes sense. On the flip side, Juggernaut tanks will be a complete ***** to get off nodes with the way how the new crushing blow hits in an AoE. - I love the changes to single saber mastery, vengeance is going to have a lot of fun in the patch with 6% more damage. - The adrenal/relic changes hurt rage AGAIN, which I'm surprised didn't get addressed. Oh well (For those of you that didn't read, rakta adrenals can no longer be used in WZs and PvPrelics have had their stats made into passive stat. On-Use Relics cannot be used in wzs. In addition, the PvP Adrenal no longer gives a damage boost in PvP)

Good Commando healers that utilize LoS actually do well if they have gear, they still have very good survivability relative to other healers and if they're guarded and players that focus them are taunted, they don't go down easily. The issue for Commando healers is more or less heat efficiency which I don't see being a huge issue if bioware changes a few things around in the coming patches.

Powertechs are fine. They have low mobility and relatively fewer CC and defensive cds than other classes in their position. Get gear and force CDs out of them, the damage is a LOT more avoidable and less stressful when you know what you're doing.

False in every regard. Assassin tanks don't have the same degree of control that juggernaut tanks do nor do they have the same degree of overall map mobility. PT tanks and Sin tanks really only edge out juggernaut tanks with regard to overall damage. Juggernaut DPS actually have a better capacity to protect than sin and pt dps due to the fact that they have a low opportunity cost to switch to soresu and toss out guard. Taunts are something that all 3 share in common so differentials in that regard are really just relegated to overall player skill. Both juggernaut DPS trees have very strong mobility and provide strong single target burst (multi-target in rage's case). Vengeance's overall damage is as good as PT damage and while the burst isn't as strong as sin burst, juggernauts can last a lot longer in the fray than either PTs or sins.

I'm honestly considering starting my stream up again just to show how wrong most of you whiners and naysayers are. If only queues would pop, maybe I would give a damn. As is, the only WZs I seem to get in are after I raid >_>

You all know what I'm talking about... so entitled and angry every time someone insinuates that their skill is really a facet of how broken the game is. We need to take decisive ACTION, the longer we delay, the more their numbers grow and the more we wallow in the sorrows we have wrought. NERF it, or we shall all perish in the flames of tyrannic oppression, the likes of which have not been seen or felt for centuries!

Protection is easy if there are high damage dealers on the other team. Its one of the more skill dependent metrics you can see a player perform with though and it shows when a player is correctly singling out the right damage dealers at the right time. Protection via guard is the same deal, figuring out which players are taking the brunt of the damage and swapping guard to them is crucial. Truth be told, protection isn't really even a guardian thing, any player with the right mindset can pull it off.

You pull it off on the third tick of shockwave, the fourth tick applies right as the animation ends and you get the 25% damage bonus. EDIT: Different rotation. Ummm Enrage gives you four stacks of shockwave so... lol?

Guardians and juggernauts are fine, you should learn to use your full arsenal of abilities rather than flounder like an incompetent moron (which 90% of the players of this class do anyway, sadly enough).

The rage issue isn't something that you notice as rage unless you play other specs, only then do you realize how starved for rage you are as a whole. Rage cannot sustain enraged defense at all without sacrificing near to all of it's offensive potential, vengeance (and immortal DPS specs, to a lesser extent) can front the rage cost. The spec simply does not sustain enough rage in the long term to make use of ALL the tools available to it. Simply put, it's confined to a strict rotation due to the lack of rage that it can generate in the long term. The pre-changed enrage *could* due to the extra 2 rage. As for unstoppable, there is simply no other ability in the game that supports such a powerful mobility oriented ability, the closest one that exists is the assassin movement impairment removal in their tank tree. It's simply not worth giving up.

We have the highest defense of any tanking class and (barring shroud) the strongest single-target cds over a long-term fight. Powertech tanks rely on high shield chance to mitigate damage, sins rely on shield and health to give them a bit of leeway (they take more damage than any other tank) while juggernauts have the highest raw mitigation and defense. Its nothing to worry about.

With the "classic" opener I linked, it's possible to get the 10% boost on smash too if you smash on the third tick because the fourth tick of shockwave applies an instant before you hit (still giving you the damage) and the 10% damage buff persists because it lasts for a split instant, giving you that additional burst.

No, guard and taunt stack multiplicatively (as far as I've seen). However, you can only ever have one functioning taunt debuff on a person at a time (from other tanks in the group as well).

Right, the point is that flaunting how well you do and offering a link is something anyone can do. If you post something like schwarzoid or Morsexy did (offering constructive ideas etc) that would be much better and far more useful for the community. As is, anyone can post the numbers, but it doesn't help the community if you treat things like a Q&A. If you can offer facts,builds and tips right there in the front post and it's much more substantiative.

Close, the best opener as rage was the one that was there in 1.1. It was charge-> crush -> Enrage -> sunder -> Smash (final tick of crush) -> scream (Filler) This is still POSSIBLE, but you waste shockwave ticks by hitting enrage during the rotation. The point of hitting enrage early was that you could potentially get off a vicious throw or obliterate to another target without worrying about rage gen.

Quoted for the lulz, I'm not going ad hominem here, I'm just stating that the spec does well against players that don't understand it's mechanics. So I'll break it down for you, since you've seem to misunderstood my points. Four seconds is a LOT of time to work with, an ability that completely prevents any CC (barring snares/roots) is huge. If you use push, that refreshes the time after the second charge and gives your more time where you are immune to CC. It's VERY good, especially in huttball (quite frankly, it's godlike for the place). Rage has two unique abilities and one unique mechanic, obliterate, force crush and shockwave. Obliterate is a secondary charge (with a built in sprint). Unfortunately, if you want to make the best usage of rage's damage, you need to use obliterate to set up damage rather than close gaps. Crush is the strongest ability in the tree (and the strongest slow in the game). That being said, ONLY crush offers any real utility relative to other classes while shockwave bloats the rest of the tree. The point is that the utility gain from the other juggernaut trees (force grip/backhand/sonic barrier in immortal and unstoppable in vengeance) offer better utility than Rage does in that regard. It has a FOUR percent damage reduction. Enraged defense is actually VERY strong as vengeance due to how much rage you can generate while it's up. If used it right, it can completely shut down damage from most sources if you keep your rage generation up. Soresu is a tanking form, you SHOULD be swapping to it regardless of spec (and sticking in it if you're immortal), the damage reduction from deafening defense is passive which means that it actually stacks into other forms. It's similar sure, but marauders have more offensive utility (a la predation and bloodlust). Berserk also refunds rage with overpower (making it viable as a form of rage generation). On the whole, they DON't have relative rage issues. I've played this game longer than you most likely good sir, I was one of the first 50s in the game (day 3 of early access) and I've had a lot of time to play each spec of my class (I've probably played rage more than you have /played (Sad, I know, but I had a pretty light semester so *shrug*)). The point of using enrage as an opener is that you can open with strong burst right away and continue for another large burst sequence with a crush immediately after. The issue is that you have to burn force push now to get a second charge for the 10% damage increase if you want an optimal hit (meaning both the final tick of crush and your smash goes off at the same time for a large hit on someone). Prepatch, you had more than enough rage and time with enrage to pull the sequence off without having to worry about the timing (due to the fact that your first burst was set up around the crush). Now you can't have two massive sweeps without sacrificing the utility of the push. My point about rage issues is that Rage juggernauts simply aren't rage efficient between their burst sequences and to get the most out of their rage, relative to marauders, they have to itemize for crit (which is not very useful for the rest of rage's arsenal). Ravage is great, nobody can argue with that (It's borderline overpowered in its uninterruptable state). Every juggernaut should have battle cry for PvP (and if they don't I have no Idea why they're playing the class). The issue with rage is that it's filler abilities are inefficient compared to rage marauders and other specs with similar damage dealing potential (Carnage Marauders/MM Snipers/Lethality snipers). The spec simply does not generate enough rage to keep using it's abilities without draining it's capacity for large bursts and finishing off players. It's seriously hard to take someone seriously when they've barely done the research on their class. Don't try to ram nonsense in my face, I will shove facts down your throat =P

How much damage and protection you do in a game is directly proportional to how many other classes capable of guarding and taunting there are on your team, how much damage the other team does and how much healing they can put out. When you factor that in it's not very impressive. Congrats on the big numbers, but anyone with half a brain can pull these numbers off if they run into idiots that group up and try to spam damage on a node. AoE taunt's won't kill you... Guarding someone that's taking a lot of damage while in range of AoE will murder you. Taunted damage is prevented damage, guarded damage is transferred and mitigated with your stats.

The only design change I could see is that it would not drop threat while in soresu, otherwise it's set up just fine.