Random IA? Make fun of the OP? Check my post history. I have done nothing but present the facts for Operative disbalance in this game. That thread had nothing but the simple fact that Operative Energy regen is inferior to Sorcerer Force regen.

Sorcerers can cast consumption. I've never met a sorcerer who has claimed "not enough force". Every operative in this game has had to deal with "not enough energy".

Hey, buddy. These are the operative forums. Not the BH forums.

My god. Thank you. I was beginning to think I was the only one with any degree of logical reasoning ability. I mean really. Am I the only one who saw this. Come on.... really. What is going on here.

Um... my statement is baseless and yours isnt? 100 energy pool; Kolto Injection costs 25 energy. That's 25% of pool. 500 force pool; Dark Infusion costs 55 force. That's 11% of pool. If Operative casts 3 KI's back to back. he is in a significantly reduced energy regen state. He has hurt himself. If Sorcerer casts 3 Dark Infusions, he still has the force to cast 6 more Dark Infusions and never has to worry about hurting himself with a variable regen rate. How, is my statement baseless and yours isn't.

Lets compare prepull mechanics. Kolto Probe costs 15 energy. Needs to be stacked 2 times. Costs 30% of our base 100 energy. Static Barrier costs 65 force. Only needs to be applied one time. Costs 13% of their base 500 force. Fact is; Operatives are limited by their energy/energy regen system. It's harder to manage. Sorcerers are not. So why are sorcerer heals stronger. Where is the operative advantage? Operatives have to hold back. Sorcerers do not. So why are sorcerer heals stronger? How is that balanced. Yes. Our energy regen is slightly stronger ONLY if we stay above a certain energy level. So we have to hold back. If we fall below that level (IE: High damage situation that requires a lot of healing), sorcerers regen becomes stronger. They don't have to worry about that. It just is. Plus the fact that sorcerers get a much! larger base pool. Compare pools, regen to ABILITY COST as a ratio. It makes no sense. Kolto Injectio = 25 Energy cost; Operative base pool = 100; Operative max regen = 6 energy / s. Dark Infusion = 55 Force cost; Sorcerer base pool = 500; Sorcerer fixed regen = 8 force / s. Operatives have to hold back; Sorcerers do not. END OF STORY. It's unfair, unbalanced.

How is my original post incorrect? It's a simple fact. If we go below a certain energy level, our regen makes it significantly worse than a sorcerers. Not to mention the fact that a sorcerer gets a must larger pool to power heal with and they do not have to worry about holding back to keep regen at a level that is viable.

Just like 64% crit chance from diagnostic scan will allow that terrible heal to regen energy.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=348775 Just to make it clear. This thread is about the specific set bonus being substantially better for sorcerer compared to operative. Same type of set bonus though. The post I just linked to, pointed out the fact that every single set bonus in operative healing gear (both pve and pvp, both 2 and 4 piece) is useless. They are either bonuses to abilities we do not use because of how bad the ability is, or it's the useless +5 energy. See this thread for prof of how bad +5 energy really is. Sorcerers +50 force is over 2 times more effective.

Who are you talking about? Me or the guy you quoted. I honestly don't care what he says to defend it. All out healing as an operative, you run out of energy. Im in full champ/bm gear, my heals are strong. There is no way you are healing to an acceptable amount and not running out of energy. I mean, yeah, maybe he is warzone healing with just diagnostic scan and not running out of energy,

I demand you edit your post; The statement "we need to be a little more proactive than other healers like sorcerers and operatives" is ********. Operatives are the hardest healing class to play it's also the weakest. You have several moving cast heals. Operatives have none.

..... you trolling me...... These set bonuses enhance abilities no good operative healer uses. +5 energy is negligible crash stat.

I am in no way surprised. Simpele rearragement of my skill trees isn't to fix my class. We have other issues. Both PVE and PVP healer sets have both 2 and 4 peices sets that are worthless. Inquisitor has a better regen rate if the operative is below 40 energy. I have presented all the evidence in so many threads.

prove it. fraps a warzone start to finish.

As some of you may have noticed. Large portion of the Operatives that have been playing this game. You don't hear from us much anymore, because frankly all that is left are a very small few number of mains and the new players to the game. I want to make sure you all know why, we were forced to do this. Here is a listing of the Operative PVP and PVE gear 2 and 4 piece bonuses. Operative PVP (2) Piece Increases the healing done by Recuperative Nanotech by 15%. (4) Piece Increases max energy by 5. Operative PVE (2) Piece Reduces the energy cost of Recuperative Nanotech by 4 (4) Piece Increases the critical chance of Kolto Infusion and Kolto Pack by 15%. All of those are worthless to us. Recuperative Nanotech costs 30 energy and is a very weak heal, so good operatives do not take it. Waste of energy. Even with the gear. +5 Max Energy : For comparison; our main heal (Kolto Injection) costs 25 energy. Worthless 4 piece set. Another recuperative nanotech set bonus. An ability that good operatives do not bother with. Kolto Infusion. A weak outdated heal that no operative healer uses. They use Surgical Probe instead as Kolto Infusion heals for only slightly more, but costs 20 energy and has a cast time. So; This is just one example that I wanted to present to you guys for why we have all left. Don't think becuase you don't hear from us or see us too often. In your Sorcerer on Sorcerer warzone battles, that everything is fine. It's not. We have been ****ed so hard, with not even the slightest attempt from bioware to fix our class, the vast majority of us quit.

Are you seriously going to sit there and try and claim operatives have a better resource system. That's *********** absurd. Just do the math. Your perception of the system is flawed. The make is solid. Yes, we get an ability that buffs our energy by 50 points. That's 2 casts of Kolto Injection. On a 2 minute cooldown. Sorcerers get consumption which grants them 48 force. That allows them to cast one Dark Infusion. They can then again use that ability 9 seconds later at no cost for another 48 energy to cast dark infusion. They can do that again and again while our ability is on cooldown. 50 Energy = 2 Kolto Injections. I am seriously getting sick of people like you. Posting vague comments like "it's the energy regen" then turning tail and running. You know damn well this is ****ed. Sorceres have a better base resource pool They have a better regen system. They have better abilities to increase Force while in combat. They can get those superior tools with very few tools in their skill tree and they buff already strong abilities. Operatives have to spend 4 talent points to boost Diagnostic Scan to a crappy heal that boosts energy. And that boost is still significantly inferior to sorcerers ability. I think you know this. I just can't figure out what is wrong with you. Why you can't register "sorcerers system is at least 5 times better than the operatives system."

Not sure what you mean. I would like to see sorcerers force regen dropped to 1/s fixed but their pool left alone. Right now, they have no force issues. Unlike operatives who have to focus their ENTIRE play style around energy.

You have to be able to compare two entierely different classes. Sorcerer does everything better. They have more abilities, better utility, better heals, better dps, betting resource system. There is no reason bioware can't balance this game. Is a sorceres 15 dollars more important than mine. Buff Operative. Nerf Sorcerer. Or Double the amount of money I earn from all instances to reflect the FACT that I have to work harder to do anything in this *********** game, compared to face roll sorcerers.

What factor makes operative viable. What makes them balanced? 1.5s faster regen than sorcerer if they stay about 40 energy. Significantly lower regen if they fall below 40 energy.

That much faster resource regen is meaningless when sorcerers get a instant cast instant cooldown free cast ability every 9 seconds 48 force regen ability. And resource pool doesn't matter when you take into account the following FACTS; Operatives max regen rate is 20% of the energy required to use their main heal (Kolto Injection). Sorcerer fixed regen rate is 14.5% of the force required to use their main heal (Dark Infusion). Is that 6.5% additional energy regened compared to sorcerer (1.3 energy) really worth the fact that we have abilities that cost 25% of our max pool, compared to sorcerers 9.1% cost. Is the ability to cast your main heal 12 times with your base pool really a good balance to being able to cast your main heal 4 times with your base pool given that player that can only cast his heal 4 times CAN regen the energy required to cast the ability 1.25 seconds faster IF he stays at max regen rate. No it is not. That is also coupled with the SIMPLE FACT that the sorcerer ability is balanced to cast longer and heal for more. Essentially the better type of resource management system. While our ability heals for less and casts faster. This make no sense. You can sit there and try and it off for what you think the system should be. But the fact is, this system does not. Kolto Injection (KI) costs 25 energy. At 5 Energy regen per sec it takes 5 seconds to accumulate the energy to cast KI. At 4 Energy regen per sec it takes 6.25 seconds to accumulate the energy to cast KI. At 3 Energy regen per sec it takes 8.33 seconds to accumulate the energy to cast KI. At 2.5 Energy regen per sec it takes 10 seconds to accumulate the energy to cast KI. At 2 Energy regen per sec it takes 12.5 seconds to accumulate the energy to cast KI. Dark Infusion (DI) costs 55 force. (Before the talents to decrease it's cost). At 8 Force regen per sec it takes 6.875 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI. At 8 Force regen per sec it takes 6.875 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI. At 8 Force regen per sec it takes 6.875 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI. At 8 Force regen per sec it takes 6.875 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI. At 8 Force regen per sec it takes 6.875 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI. LOOK; IF THE OPERATIVE FALLS BELOW 40 Energy, the Sorcerer fixed regen is BETTER. Why should an operative have to put up with that significantly smaller resource pool, weaker heals, and much more complicated regen system to have the ability to regen the energy to cast their man heal 1.5 seconds faster than the fixed Sorcerer regen. And that 1.5 seconds ONLY if that operative stays about 40 energy. 1.5 seconds IF the operative stays above 40 energy is balanced by 500 additional resource pool for an additional 9 casts of the main heal. That is not even including the fact that, Sorcerers dark infusion heals on 3 second cast. It heals for 2763-2907 in full champ/bm gear. Operative Kolto Injection heals on a 2 second cast. So that additional 1.5s is actually already there for the sorcerer. SO the Sorcerer already regens better. plus they have a higher pool. Plus they don't have to worry about the chance of losing their average regen if they cast more than 2 heals. Plus they have *********** consumption.

They had countless metrics to gauge what classes people were planning on playing before launch. Just because it was unbalanced doesn't change the fact that. A. They have yet to give Sorcerer any kind of a nerf. B. They took a sledge hammer to Concealment Operative rendering them completely subpar in PVE, forcing just about every main Operative to go with the massively subpar healer spec.

I'm also ignoring Subversion and Consumption. But if you want to go there. Fine. Kolto Injection (KI) costs 25 energy. With Stim Boost: At 6 Energy regen per sec it takes 4.17 seconds to accumulate the energy to cast KI. At 5 Energy regen per sec it takes 5 seconds to accumulate the energy to cast KI. At 4 Energy regen per sec it takes 6.25 seconds to accumulate the energy to cast KI. At 3.5 Energy regen per sec it takes 7.14 seconds to accumulate the energy to cast KI. At 3 Energy regen per sec it takes 8.33 seconds to accumulate the energy to cast KI. Dark Infusion (DI) costs 55 force. (Before the talents to decrease it's cost). With Subversion: At 10.4 Force regen per sec it takes 5.288 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI. At 10.4 Force regen per sec it takes 5.288 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI. At 10.4 Force regen per sec it takes 5.288 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI. At 10.4 Force regen per sec it takes 5.288 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI. At 10.4 Force regen per sec it takes 5.288 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI. Without Subversion At 8 Force regen per sec it takes 6.875 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI. At 8 Force regen per sec it takes 6.875 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI. At 8 Force regen per sec it takes 6.875 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI. At 8 Force regen per sec it takes 6.875 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI. At 8 Force regen per sec it takes 6.875 seconds to accumulate the force to cast DI. Note, that in high damage situations, even when we have stim boost, and they don't have subversion. They get better regen rates. We have one ability to increase our Energy by 50 every 2 minutes. They get one that allows them to increase their Force by 48 and is free cast every 12 seconds.

Yeah the (4) Set Bonus is +15% Crit Chance to Kolto Infusion. 20 Energy cost + 1 TA Cost ability makes it unusable. Just use surgical Probe. Bioware has ****ed up.

Abilities that affect Energy or Force pool, regen or ability (not including skill tree bonuses). Sorcerer; Consumption - Instant Cast - No Cooldown : Consumes 15% of max health to restore 8% of max Force. Each time used, applies a debuff that reduces the Force regeneration rate by 25% for the next 10 seconds. Operative; Adrenaline Probe - Instant Cast - 2 minute Cooldown : Summons a droid that recovers 50 energy over 3 seconds. Stim Boost - Instant Cast - 35 second Cooldown - Costs 1 Tactical Advantage : Executes your Tactical Advantage to recover 3 energy every 3 seconds for 45 seconds. Talents to influence Energy or Force pool, regen, or ability cost and the cost of those talents, assuming the player is heal spec'd. Sorcerer; Corruption (Healer) Tree: Resurgence (1 - Tier 3) --> Force Bending (2 - Tier 3) : Resurgence has 100% chance to grant Force Bending which A. Reduces the force cost of Revivification by 30%. B. Reduces the force cost of Dark Heal by 50%. Innervate (1 - Tier 5) --> Force Surge (2 - Tier 5) : Innervate critical hits have a 100% chance to make the next Consumption activate without degenerating Force or consuming Health. --------------- Innervate is a 3 second Channel heal on a 9 second cooldown that heals for 678 health then an additional 2034 health over 3 seconds. For a total heal of 2712. With a crit chance of 30% and a crit mult of 1.7, that heal averages to around 3281 points. Note that Force Surge can proc on either the initial heal, or one of the three hot ticks. At 30% crit chance, that means Innervate has a .3+.3+.3+.3 = 120% chance to activate Force Surge. So, essentially, guranteed no cost consumption. 8% of 600 Force = 48 Force. So, every 12 seconds, Sorcerers can get a free 48 Force. Lightning (Damage) Tree: Reserves (2 - Tier 1) : Increases your total Force by 100. Electric Induction (3 - Tier 1) : Reduces the Force cost of Force attacks and Healing abilities by 9%. Subversion (2 - Tier 2) : Lightning Strike has a 100% chance to increase your Force regeneration rate by 10% for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times. Operative; Medicine (Healer) Tree: Precision Instruments (2 - Tier 1) : Decreases energy cost of Corrosive Dart, Debilitate and Sever Tendon by 4. ----------- Note those are all damage abilities. Why they are in the healer tree is beyond me. Moving on. Endorphin Rush (2 - Tier 2) : Adrenaline Probe now immediately restores 16 additional energy. Prognosis: Critical (2 - Tier 3) --> Patient Studies (2 - Tier 4) : Diagnostic Scan critical restore 2 energy. ----------- Diagnostic Scan is a 3 second channeled heal that heals for 155 health every second. So if this abilities crits, with 70% crit mult, it heals for 263 health. That is in full Champion/Battlemaster Gear. Note that, that is a worthless heal, and only useable when 4 talent points are spent. Assuming a base crit chance of 40% for an Operative, buffed to 40%+24% = 64% chance, Diagnostic Scan has a 64%+64%+64% = 192% chance per cast to proc Patient Studies which restores 2 energy. So, each cast of Diagnostic Scan will restore (on average) 1.92*2 = 3.84 energy. Lethality (DPS) Tree: Corrosive Grenade (1 - Tier 3) --> Combat Stims (2 - Tier 3) : Stim Boost immediately restores 10 energy when activated. Additionally reduces the cooldown of Stim Boost by 15 seconds. ---------- Note, that to get this, you have to give up the 31 point Operative heal (Recuperative Nanotech). Let's compare Force Surge (Innervate) and Patient Studies (Diagnostic Scan). Every 12 seconds, Innervate has a 120% chance to grant free cast Consumption which grants 48 Force. That single cast of Innervate heals for ~ 3281 health over the duration. Note, that this 3.3k heal is achieved from 3 seconds of channel. They have the additional 9 seconds from the cooldown to use on other abilities. In the same amount of time, Diagnostic Scan can be cast 4 times (12s/3s per cast). Every 12 seconds, 4 casts, grants 3.84 * 4 energy = 15.36 energy. This ability with a 64% crit chance from the talents, heals for ~ 596 health over the three second cast for each cast. So after casting 4 times, it will heal for ~ 2386 health. Note, that this 2.4k heal must be achieved from spending every moment of the 12 seconds casting this ability. Unlike sorcerers who can cast other abilities while their large heal is on cooldown. So; Every 12 seconds, from 3 Talent points, Sorcerers get 48 Force at no cost, get a 3.3k heal, can achieve this with 3 seconds of channeling. Every 12 seconds, from 4 Talent points, Operatives get 15 Energy at no cost, get a 2.4k heal, and can ONLY achieve this with 12 seconds of channeling. Let's look at the main heals for both classes (when spec'd for max cost reduction) that 48 Force/15 Energy accumulated every 12 seconds. Sorcerer : Dark Infusion : Costs 50 Force. Operative : Kolto Injection : Costs 25 Energy. 48 Force = 96% of the 50 Force Dark Infusion Costs. So, each 12 second free cast of Consumption cast gets a Sorcerer 96% closer to casting Dark Infusion. 15 Energy = 60% of the 25 Energy Kolto Injection Costs. So, each 12 second of constant channeling of Diagnostic Scan gets an Operative 60% closer to casting Kolto Injection. Do you see the *********** retarded, absolute, give up and find a new profession level of ******** bioware has presented us with here. Absolute comparisons between these 2 abilities talented to cost nothing. Sorcerer / Operative Skill Points cost : 2/3 : SORCERER WINS BY 1. Heal Amount from Procing ability : 3281 / 2386 : SORCERER WINS BY 895. Time Spent Channeling the Procing Ability : 3s / 12s : SORCERER WINS BY 9s. Amount of Force/Energy restored as percent cost of primary heal : 96%/60% : SORCERER WINS BY 36%. MAKES NO SENSE.

Abilities that affect Energy or Force pool, regen or ability (not including skill tree bonuses). Sorcerer; Consumption - Instant Cast - No Cooldown : Consumes 15% of max health to restore 8% of max Force. Each time used, applies a debuff that reduces the Force regeneration rate by 25% for the next 10 seconds. Operative; Adrenaline Probe - Instant Cast - 2 minute Cooldown : Summons a droid that recovers 50 energy over 3 seconds. Stim Boost - Instant Cast - 35 second Cooldown - Costs 1 Tactical Advantage : Executes your Tactical Advantage to recover 3 energy every 3 seconds for 45 seconds. Talents to influence Energy or Force pool, regen, or ability cost and the cost of those talents, assuming the player is heal spec'd. Sorcerer; Corruption (Healer) Tree: Resurgence (1 - Tier 3) --> Force Bending (2 - Tier 3) : Resurgence has 100% chance to grant Force Bending which A. Reduces the force cost of Revivification by 30%. B. Reduces the force cost of Dark Heal by 50%. Innervate (1 - Tier 5) --> Force Surge (2 - Tier 5) : Innervate critical hits have a 100% chance to make the next Consumption activate without degenerating Force or consuming Health. --------------- Innervate is a 3 second Channel heal on a 9 second cooldown that heals for 678 health then an additional 2034 health over 3 seconds. For a total heal of 2712. With a crit chance of 30% and a crit mult of 1.7, that heal averages to around 3281 points. Note that Force Surge can proc on either the initial heal, or one of the three hot ticks. At 30% crit chance, that means Innervate has a .3+.3+.3+.3 = 120% chance to activate Force Surge. So, essentially, guranteed no cost consumption. 8% of 600 Force = 48 Force. So, every 12 seconds, Sorcerers can get a free 48 Force. Lightning (Damage) Tree: Reserves (2 - Tier 1) : Increases your total Force by 100. Electric Induction (3 - Tier 1) : Reduces the Force cost of Force attacks and Healing abilities by 9%. Subversion (2 - Tier 2) : Lightning Strike has a 100% chance to increase your Force regeneration rate by 10% for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times. Operative; Medicine (Healer) Tree: Precision Instruments (2 - Tier 1) : Decreases energy cost of Corrosive Dart, Debilitate and Sever Tendon by 4. ----------- Note those are all damage abilities. Why they are in the healer tree is beyond me. Moving on. Endorphin Rush (2 - Tier 2) : Adrenaline Probe now immediately restores 16 additional energy. Prognosis: Critical (2 - Tier 3) --> Patient Studies (2 - Tier 4) : Diagnostic Scan critical restore 2 energy. ----------- Diagnostic Scan is a 3 second channeled heal that heals for 155 health every second. So if this abilities crits, with 70% crit mult, it heals for 263 health. That is in full Champion/Battlemaster Gear. Note that, that is a worthless heal, and only useable when 4 talent points are spent. Assuming a base crit chance of 40% for an Operative, buffed to 40%+24% = 64% chance, Diagnostic Scan has a 64%+64%+64% = 192% chance per cast to proc Patient Studies which restores 2 energy. So, each cast of Diagnostic Scan will restore (on average) 1.92*2 = 3.84 energy. Lethality (DPS) Tree: Corrosive Grenade (1 - Tier 3) --> Combat Stims (2 - Tier 3) : Stim Boost immediately restores 10 energy when activated. Additionally reduces the cooldown of Stim Boost by 15 seconds. ---------- Note, that to get this, you have to give up the 31 point Operative heal (Recuperative Nanotech). Let's compare Force Surge (Innervate) and Patient Studies (Diagnostic Scan). Every 12 seconds, Innervate has a 120% chance to grant free cast Consumption which grants 48 Force. That single cast of Innervate heals for ~ 3281 health over the duration. Note, that this 3.3k heal is achieved from 3 seconds of channel. They have the additional 9 seconds from the cooldown to use on other abilities. In the same amount of time, Diagnostic Scan can be cast 4 times (12s/3s per cast). Every 12 seconds, 4 casts, grants 3.84 * 4 energy = 15.36 energy. This ability with a 64% crit chance from the talents, heals for ~ 596 health over the three second cast for each cast. So after casting 4 times, it will heal for ~ 2386 health. Note, that this 2.4k heal must be achieved from spending every moment of the 12 seconds casting this ability. Unlike sorcerers who can cast other abilities while their large heal is on cooldown. So; Every 12 seconds, from 3 Talent points, Sorcerers get 48 Force at no cost, get a 3.3k heal, can achieve this with 3 seconds of channeling. Every 12 seconds, from 4 Talent points, Operatives get 15 Energy at no cost, get a 2.4k heal, and can ONLY achieve this with 12 seconds of channeling. Let's look at the main heals for both classes (when spec'd for max cost reduction) that 48 Force/15 Energy accumulated every 12 seconds. Sorcerer : Dark Infusion : Costs 50 Force. Operative : Kolto Injection : Costs 25 Energy. 48 Force = 96% of the 50 Force Dark Infusion Costs. So, each 12 second free cast of Consumption cast gets a Sorcerer 96% closer to casting Dark Infusion. 15 Energy = 60% of the 25 Energy Kolto Injection Costs. So, each 12 second of constant channeling of Diagnostic Scan gets an Operative 60% closer to casting Kolto Injection. Absolute comparisons between these 2 abilities talented to cost nothing. Sorcerer / Operative Skill Points cost : 2/3 : SORCERER WINS BY 1. Heal Amount from Procing ability : 3281 / 2386 : SORCERER WINS BY 895. Time Spent Channeling the Procing Ability : 3s / 12s : SORCERER WINS BY 9s. Amount of Force/Energy restored as percent cost of primary heal : 96%/60% : SORCERER WINS BY 36%. MAKES NO SENSE.