Damn, ran into it for the first time last night against a Sorc and I chalked it up to a bug on my end, I should've gotten the name. Luckily, they had 4 healers so I just switched to a different healer and started working on him.

Due to talents, there are plenty of roots that aren't two seconds. Stuns are 4 seconds, almost the entire duration, especially with the delay that's common in the middle of a warzone melee. Mezzes and snares last even longer. There are plenty of ways to counter this ability and hinder or shut down DPS output during it if you know what you're doing. Stealth is an opener primarily, but can be used as a gap closer. It's not as great as a Marauder's gap closer, because it's balanced by the fact that a Marauder has a huge bullseye on them the entire game, while the stealther is invisible, and the stealther has much higher frontloaded damage. Marauder damage takes a while to build up. Yes, Marauder vanish can be used as one as well, and does count toward that. Requires talents to see full benefits, but it does work as one, I never said it didn't. Again, you're just contradictory. Why is "Root them, stun them, slow them, keep range on them" a solution for endless countering to a class, but not for 5 seconds. Throw all the insults and add all the saccharine smiley faces you want, you're just a troll, and a bad one. Labradoraki would've run circles around you.

And since one stun/root works for the duration of undying rage, the analogy fits ; ) What you just said, try harder. PS - Stealth is your gap closer, you get to vanish and try it again if it doesn't play out your way.

Sore nerfed Operative hops on nerf cry bandwagon for next targets down the line. Your contradictions show how clueless you are. Just keep 10m range and use stuns and snares right, chief?

Because you make too much sense, and this is a trolling thread mainly that's ignoring any and all counterpoints. GrandMike's in here talking about how this ability's overpowered and needs to be looked at, and then posting in other threads that the way to beat Operatives is to keep 10m range and use stuns/snares/slows....yet he doesn't seem to know they exist when it comes to countering this ability. Fail trolls are fail trolls. Marauders are just an easy target right now because more people are rolling them and learning how to play them properly, so there will be more folks walking funny after they lost to one.

Those 2-3 GCD's aren't killing anyone that wouldn't have died from DoTs anyway, most likely, really just giving you a chance to get one last merc/dispatch in there before you die. You're correct, they're different - the other classes' escape mechanisms leave you alive, with a pocket healer or not. And don't get me wrong, escape mechanisms are part of the game, I'm not complaining. I'm just saying Marauders aren't the only class that can do what you're complaining of. Sorc/Sage can bubble/force speed and hit you with instants as they run away. Same basic thing as UR. You squeeze out a few more seconds of damage with the potential to survive even longer if you can self heal, get healed, or they don't give chase. The only difference is Marauders don't run away because the distance does nothing for us. A Marauder running away is just a dead Marauder, they're best served in the thick of things doing their job.

Funny, that's the complete opposite of what you've been saying in the "Nerf Undying Rage" thread. You mean you suddenly discovered that CC abilities exist, Mike? Grats. (And for the record, Ops are fine, great if played strategically, require thought and skill cap, just surprised to see the Grand one preaching a different tune)

Except for all the other classes that do the same thing, right, Like Stealthers, Sorcs/Sages, etc? If anything I agree that this ability should be given to knights/juggernaughts as well, rather than changed at all. It's the closest thing to a tradeoff you get for playing the classes that get instant human aggro from being right in people's faces swinging glowsticks in a game where ranged classes dominate. When I fight Marauders and they do this, they either get stunned or die a few seconds later to DoTs. When I fight stealthers and they do this, they get away, because they're in stealth.

Well, I respect where you're coming from, because I basically retired from PVE as well...I only care about the PVP aspect of this game. I don't see how you think UR is going to be the game changer that HAS to be looked at before 1.2 though. Still, after all these pages, I can't figure out what's going to make it so unstoppable in team play. Other classes take damage better, even with those few seconds of near immunity. Healers can outheal a DPSer easily even using interrupts every time they come up. A good healer will live far longer than a Marauder even after using UR/Medpack and receiving crit-heals. Multiple Sorcs/Sages and Assassins/Shadows that know what they're doing can end a Huttball match before it's even over. The list goes on and on. Good players will always make abilities look overpowered. The truth of it is, every class is overpowered, in a good player's hands. The real definition of overpowered on these forums appears to be "different from me". The same thread could be started about AOE mezzes, because used in the hands of a coordinated team, which is what you're worried about, you can disable half the enemy's team easily. Chaining knockbacks in Huttball is OP. Stacking healers in Voidstar and Alderaan is OP. There are plenty of things that are way more important to be looked at before Ranked if you're going to go there. People are always going to find the best combination of abilities to maximize the cheapness of a strategy to gain an easy win. It's part of playing the game. Personally, I don't care, I like the challenge. I'm pretty sure UR will be the least of your worries when the time comes.

Yeah, you based an entire thread on a bunch of hypothetical situations that you constructed to support your argument. I never called you ignorant, though. Maybe you learned a little about the class. If you played one I'm sure you'd change your mind, though. Any class looks overpowered when you face 3 or 4 of them in a warzone with good support. I've experienced that with most of the classes already, on both ends - To act like there aren't numerous simple counters to this ability, especially with the amount of CC in this game, is just crazy though. Yeah, it's annoying when someone pops an ability and you don't get the kill you think you're going to. Fighting good stealthers will result in that regularly. Pretty much every class in the game has some way to do that, though. If BioWare thinks there's an issue they'll change something, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

You make the assumption that your medpac is always off-cooldown. You also based your initial complaints about being able to deal damage while "immune" (not really immune, but we don't need to beat that horse to death again). If you're popping your medpac you're basically costing yourself one of the two to three GCD's. That leaves the Marauder 1-2 GCD's to kill the other team, as you're claiming. Good luck with that. You made a good point - not everyone plays the viable spec for a class. Your straw men become even less effective when you consider that, since only one spec for Marauders can do any healing, and that healing itself cannot be activated on demand. UR is no more an "I win" button in 1v1 than a 4 second stun, which Marauders don't have.

If it was anywhere in the open world actually, that means they took a WZ pop. People do that all the time.

If you were on Ilum, they probably jumped into a warzone to screw you out of your kill.

I don't understand how you can make it to Battlemaster with mostly Cent Gear...I would be frustrated too, but it sounds like she's forgetting to turn in quests, not doing quests, or something. I didn't even think that was possible.

The idea (though none of us have more than extrapolations from the usual vague quotes) seems to be that higher tier gear won't require a valor rank, and not include massive stat improvements. The idea is not to give out "welfare epics", because the whole term is ridiculous, this isn't an economy it's itemization for a game. In order to even the playing field for ranked warzones, the higher tier gear will have different appearance rather than higher stats to try to remove the barrier of entry for new players and casual players, primarily. Ranked warzones can be queued for by solo players or groups, and I believe (?) have separate queues, though I couldn't give you a quote to support that right this second. Warzone commendations from ranked Warzones would be used to buy the new gear. The "reward" for PVPing will be your ranking, cosmetic appear, and various goodies that many folks don't care about, like mounts. That's mainly where all the outcry is coming from. Many people are saying they won't PVP without their character becoming more powerful, while others are saying you shouldn't PVP for any reason other than fun. If it's a "grind" don't do it, etc. That's it in a nutshell!

Hah, fail troll is fail troll. a) Way to cite examples - despite being the one claiming something is a damage immunity when it doesn't cancel all incoming damage. Your thread has been wrong from post one. b) I've been playing PVP games since UO launched, try again. c) I actually said I don't care if they nerf it, that's for the devs to decide, so thanks for making me laugh. I'll play the game no matter how they nerf/buff people, and don't need that one skill to win, thanks! I do think removing it is rather stupid, because it helps to complete a class with tons of things going against it for reasons I mentioned. I won't lose any sleep over what happens with the skill, though it seems you already have. Keep crying though, someday your massive amounts of previous experience with PVP games will kick in and you'll stop dying because of a 4 second window. *wave* Have a great Monday.

Sure, when every class gets heals and tanking ability and ranged weapons/interrupts...oh wait, that would be the most boring game ever. This is a very well balanced game, and will get better with minor tweaks. If BioWare decides to nerf it I won't lose sleep over it, because they have data to back it up. The way it is now practically every class does normalized damage, and has practically every AC has one of each type of utility skill except one or two. Your "data" is that you can't out-think a 4 second ability that is very predictable as to when and how it's getting used, and it should be removed based on the premise that it doesn't belong in the game and you're making your argument based on the assumption that there are no other differences between any of the classes. Keep your thread going all you want, if there's any actual evidence something needs to be done it will get changed regardless of what you and I say.

Nah, you're just making some really strange inferences from what I said. Damage isn't fine if you remove the few survivability cooldowns that we have, because we have no survivability outside of our cooldowns. For one of the only classes that has no tank/heal option, our damage is the same as everyone else's. Slightly more single target, and WAY less AOE damage. GS/Sniper and Sent/Mara have the most mitigated damage of any classes. Marauders have to maintain melee range to deal any significant damage. DoT's can tick for a lot but if you're not getting your Merc Slashes in you're losing a huge chuck of your DPS (and we're really just talking one spec here, again, since most people are playing that as Sent/Marauder - other specs are even more gimped by any changes to Undying Rage). You basically just decided damage immunities have no place in these games as if it's a fact, and based your entire premise off that. - This is not a damage immunity, as you still take damage, and the health you activate it at is low enough that a couple massive crits or focus fire still kill you. - Good players still focus you because you're dangerous if left alive, and except for a 4 second window, very easy to kill when focused. - The only time this ability is even an issue is when used with healers, and Force Camouflage to escape, reheal and come back. Otherwise the player is just dead. - You don't adjust class balance based on something that situational - You probably need to study or play the other classes for yourself, so you can actually understand what you're talking about, and know the difference between an imbalanced ability and a player that's better than you.

So one of two AC's that has no tank/heal option, and the least CC in the game, and requires Melee Range to deal damage needs the skills it has to use just to deal that damage removed? It is powerful in a group, but many abilities get magnified in group play. That one time they get used to the fullest isn't a reason to remove it or break it for the rest of the time. One person knocking an entire team off a ledge in Huttball, or a Sorc/Sage bubbling their whole team, or an AOE class taking advantage of people being grouped up by an objective are all great examples of how classes are more powerful in a group than in 1v1. Death from Above shouldn't be removed just because melees group up easily in Voidstar. It's situational, and people need to be smart enough to avoid it, because there are plenty of counters. Same holds true with this ability. If the PVP is objective based like you're claiming, and it is, why should dealing damage during UR matter? Damage isn't the point in warzones. You're still going to be able to pop it and run the ball in the last few feet in Huttball. You still can have your caps stopped in the other games. If you're using your "Oh $hit!" button to get another kill or two before you drop, you aren't necessarily affecting the objectives, just taking someone with you as you die.

UR is not the problem. Short cooldown on Force Camo is more problematic. Comparing Marauders to a healing class in heavy armor is ridiculous. Marauders go down so much faster than a Paladin it's not even funny. Once cooldowns drop it's like you're wearing wet tissue paper. Marauder + Healer? That's a different story but...that's two players. Again we're comparing what the class actually does with what the 31/31/31 spec does with a pocket healer. They're vastly different. The spec people are complaining about is DoT based - UR would have to cleanse DoTs on your targets for what you're proposing to even work. Otherwise, you'd just be screwing the under-used specs for Marauders even more. Armor is the best mitigator in the game right now...give me heavy armor, or give me heals like a Merc, and I'll trade undying rage. I wouldn't mind a non-channeled stun either, while we're talking about things some classes can do and other classes can't. Good thing they don't listen to every balance post on here, we'd all be playing the same exact class.

Kind of like how every class gets a CC break, plus classes like Marauders can talent to remove snares with their Invis, or BH can go unstoppable mode, or Ops can vanish and clear effects? Did someone tell you those weren't the moves you're looking for and wave their hand?

Yeah, that could work as well, though the key to not pissing people off is always minor buffs/adjustments. Enough to feel like you get an improvement, but not so much that it makes it unfair or exploitable somehow. I added a couple ideas to my post above as well that I didn't properly articulate. The broadcast message I mentioned usually is surprisingly helpful in shoring up people for world PVP. It evokes that "Oh Crap, those Imps (Pubes) are at it again!" response, and anyone feeling "bored", heads over to stop it. Very basic stuff. Telling the people on Ilum that one side controls Ilum with an annoying RW style message doesn't help. Most of the Ilum messages that lag you to death could've been summed up with a big red "DERP!" that comes over your screen periodically. Tell the people in a defense channel that someone controls a planet who are elsewhere, offplanet and a lot of times they start caring and come to join the fight. The people engaged in battle already know how it's going, you don't need to tell me my side owns, or doesn't own, all five points.

This is a cool idea, would take a lot of thought to make it combat-ready, but I like it. I was thinking something like this - Central Space Station Grants Buff. Ops must dock with the space station and access something to achieve the buff. They start spawning on a cruiser a good distance away. Once they have the buff, they must defend both the central location, and their ship, which is now docked with the station and can be attacked by the enemy by planting bombs on the docking tubes, sending them back to the far away start point on their main ship with no chance to respawn in the center. Keeping your ship docked by defending the docking tubes would keep you able to respawn on the space station to defend your buff. It would help combat the "Zerg" mentality by making whoever controlled the buff have to split their force in two, or risk losing the buff. It wouldn't completely prevent it, but hopefully would be enough to discourage it. This central space station would be very large - possibly even a ship-killing/planet razing sized weapon capable of doing something more than a buff. I was thinking having the faction in control of it slowly move in range of the enemy fleet (very Star Warsy) the longer they held it. If they could hold it for a long time, say, an hour straight, they blow up the enemy fleet, making the zone reset, but also providing a small faction-wide buff to something, and a broadcast message in chat stating that the Republic or Empire has won the battle of XXXX. Of course, ideally, you'd have to have a third faction or have factional balance better addressed, and/or remove any and all gear ties from it, or else it would just become another Ilum. Ilum didn't work mainly because it was tied to gear acquisition, IMO. Since gear acquisition is currently the only point of the game until we get fun RvR, people were more inclined to figure out ways to exploit it to get the best gear than to actually fight each other and care about who wins or loses.

There was this, at least: Q: I read an interview where some huge galactic battle could be coming in the future, what's that involve? Gabe: It's something the PvP team wants to do with world repercussions and results. I guess it depends on how much faith you have in how they're going to implement it. I love the game so I'm going to wait for it, but for most people I think their faith in Gabe is nonexistent. Sounds to me like they're taking some pages from SWG's books and having battles affect actual worlds, which is awesome. Depends on if they're talking a one-time event, or what, or if "something they want to do" means "something they want to do in 18 months".

LOL, I actually like this idea. How do you make people want to run warzones and take away a stat bonus on the gear? Make all the lower ranked players wear the JK Champion gear and look like gold samurai. You'll be PVPing your arses off to earn that new cosmetic gear : P