That technique isn't effective on my server - these people are determined to dominate the WZs. And it is becoming a more common practice - again. 2 weeks ago I didn't know of it. Now I encounter it a few times daily. I PvP daily. I cannot imagine it is part of the intended mechanic. And until it's fixed - I think, should it follow the current trend, it is only going to get worse. Funny -- you can see in this thread who isn't willing to put their big boy pants on.... lol

Getting bored and moving on hasn't happened on my server. In fact - it's getting more common. If it wasn't a recurring issue - affecting 2 or so wxs daily - I wouldn't say a thing. But it is. And it's getting worse. Time it was stopped.

Apparently it seems the new "thing" is to stay perpetually at level 49, twink your toon to all hell and stay in level 1-49 warzones in perpetuity. This is done by exiting the warzone before it completes (some times at the cost of team play). You don't level if you do this. I play on an RP server and it's become a significant problem. To the point where people will leave warzones when they see a team of these level 49s. And if it's a problem on a RP server, I'm sure it must be on others. Oh I am sure there will be people who are fine with this, in fact - who engage in it themselves. Time to move on - buck it up - take your medicine like the rest of us. I'm pretty sure the ability to do this is not part of the intended game mechanic. It needs to be fixed. I am tired of teams giving up before the wz starts and of people exiting the wz before it finishes (and sometimes contributing to losses in Huttball when scores are tied). If this has been addressed - my apologies. I read through some threads and tried a search, but came up with nothing... :;edit:: To be clear - this isn't an "anti twink" post. It isn't an "anti-premade" post. There is NOTHING wrong with twinking a char in the absence of (mis)using a game mechanic to artificially hold yourself at a certain level. This also isn't a "Level 50 PvP is fine - and absent of it's own problems" post. Clear?

I agree with every point you've made. And while biochem was the most useful of skills to have in PvP (although the bombs really help with CT) it really is no problem for people to roll other toons to take up other crafting classes. In SWG the buffs that medics could make were a HUGE benefit in PvP. Huge. And in that game you had one char per server- so, I could see people complaining. That just isn't the case in this game. So, if you want to have a different crafting prof, but still have the benefits in PvP - ya make another toon for your artificer/amortech etc. Easy-peasy.. Hell, BW even made it super easy to SWITCH crafting professions if you chose artificing but then decided you really wanted biochem. You want the advantage though? Imo that should come with some sacrifice. Don't want to make the sacrifice? Well, ya don't get the advantage. Doesn't mean you can't still be awesome at PvP. Doesn't mean that you can't still do very well. You just won't have that slight - advantage. I totally agree that they should make the stims/adrenals easier to make, which prolly would have made them cheaper and more available on the GTN. If that were the case - perhaps there wouldn't have been so much ************. (After they made the reuseables equal to the one shot adrenals. Before that - imo there really WAS something to complain about. But not now.)

I don't disagree. But we don't have those abilities currently - nor does removing relics and adrenals at this time, in any way, affect that fact. I'm just not seeing your point that you can't counter what the relic does - it's simply a tool that can be used, more intelligently at some times than others, to increase your battle effectiveness.. As are adrenals (again my beef wasn't with JUST relics, or JUST adrenals, or JUST standardizing aug slots). In all this effort seemed to be more about catering to the "I want it but I don't want to work for it" crowd. Kind of like for the last 15-20years we've told every kid they are "special" and "great" and "wonderful" and "the best and the brightest" - when really, they aren't. We aren't all the same. We aren't meant to be, all the same. And in fact, nothing in the PvP system prevented anyone from having what any other player had (without some sacrifice of course.) Sacrifice being the key word here...

I still think your perspective is tainted by your WoW experience. (Which isn't a bad thing really. It's something we all do..) I look at them like any type of changeable augment.... But then, I didn't give the ear implant much thought either... just figured it was like a bluetooth sorta thing

My bad - I wasn't clear. I'm not against the augment system per se, I worded things poorly. My apologies...

I get the feeling that your real issue isn't with the relics per se - but that they are somehow related to WoW. I have no such associations or prejudices. And this wasn't just about relics - it is about adrenals also. Fine, people are whining about reusebales? Remove them. But not the use of adrenals entirely. Your points are well taken, and I hope they do continue to evolve PvP into a more dynamic system. But the current changes not only didn't do that -- it did quite the opposite.

Clicking on the right relic at the right time really isn't as simplistic as you make it sound. Nor is using the right adrenal. It really isn't. If you think it is just a matter of "clicking" I don't think you are getting max benefits from your relics or adrenals. You completely lost me here. I am not against the addition of easy augment lots per se - I am against removing something that makes an item superior to another. Maybe adding an additional augment slot with a crit? That would work.

I work hard both irl and in game. I'm competitive. I like to win. I want the degree of my efforts to affect my rewards. Whitewashing things, making everything the same - removes any impetus to excel. And when that happens, for me, the game is no longer fun. Obviously from the replies in this thread - I'm not the only one who feels this way.

My sentiments exactly.

Um... you misunderstand. The original statement applies to the "process" a dedicated PvPer goes through to gain that little bit of an edge. The later refers to the 2 PvP games I played today. They were not as dynamic, they were more mindless - and not as much fun. As for the augment issue - why make something so complex (ie making 10 bracers to dismantle them, so that you can then make kit which will make all crafted gear augmentable) =- thereby making crits now useless, and making augmented gear nothing special? Why not just make all crafted gear with an augment slot? There still needs to be something that makes the rare crafted item a little better, (not hugely better - but a little.)

Adding augment slots this way ino just negates the whole idea of crit gear. Again, it removes the"special" the "superior" piece that you work hard to have... Why not just add an augment slot to all crafted gear? Because that is, essentially, what they are doing.

Your mad PvP skills aside - smart use of adrenals and relics can make the difference in winning a fight. That is inarguable. And those relics and adrenals were available to everyone. As for augment slots - working hard to get that fully augmented BM gear could very well give you an edge. It gives you something to work hard for. Now? Spend a few thou on the mats and that augmented gear is yours. And everyone else's. This isn't about what should be added to make PvP more rewarding - it's about what should not have been taken away.

This isn't about "real" vs "not real" This is about extra effort/time/research/trial and error - having rewards. Rewards that used skillfully, can give a small, but distinct advantage. These are available to everyone - there is no "uneven ground".

Won't take me weeks. It took me two games.

So, it used to be, as a dedicated PvPer, you could put some extra time in and use items like adrenals and relics strategically to give you an edge. Used to be you could but the effort in to acquire augmented gear that might give you an edge. Now ? Everyone will have augmented gear - easily. PvP has been "dumbed down" to please the masses. White washed. Sterilized. It's - blech. Yes, I know people *****ed and moaned about the "unfairness" of the advantage of biochem. It was an invalid complaint. Once Bioware made reusables the same stats as the one use adrenals- the imbalance was removed. If you wanted another crafting profession - you need only roll another toon. So many toon slots on a server let you be any crafting profession you wanted to be (unlike say SWG at launch where it was one toon to a server). I haven't found any real fault with any of the changes in the game - until now. Removing adrenals and relics, adding easily had augment slots, takes away the "zone" that imo, the most dedicated of PvPers strive for . That little bit of tweaking (often had at a very high cost in either/both time/credits) which gives you that little bit of an "edge". And without it imo PvP is much less interesting, much less dynamic, and just not as much fun.

Just wanted to thank everyone again for their responses. They were tremendous help!

Thanks all for your replies. When I have the taunts -- I try to use them at every opportunity - as mentioned by monkgryphon, I don't have them on this toon yet. Like I said my main issues was what were my obligations to toons other than the healer? I think, overall you guys confirmed for me - it's ok to keep the healer (or hutball carrier) as your prime target. I the instances where I can easily target someone low in health -- I will switch to aid that person -- but I think what I am hearing is, I'm not obligated to re-target every person that is in trouble. I'm just not THAT good Not yet anyway Thanks again everyone for your help!!

I'm (relatively) new to PvP tanking (usually play dps melee). I have a level 50 Vanguard on an RP server that I've done very well with in PvP and recently rolled a new toon on a PvP server with the intent of (hopefully) having more of a challenge and thereby learning more. On my level 50 toon I consistently have the highest guard numbers (or pretty close). To be fair this was in the <50 bracket- I haven't played level 50 PvP much and our server is now PvP-less with the transfer. I was never , EVER faulted for not doing my job as a tank. Not once. Today, on my new PvP server, guarding with my Iron Fist specced level 14 Vanguard, someone complained that I wasn't guarding. In fact I'd (tried anyway) to keep guard up constantly on the healers (first one let me die - repeatedly, so I switched to another who did a better job and I lived a little longer between deaths). At the end of the match - the person complaining I wasn't guarding (I think he was a commando but I can't be sure) further added insult to injury by stating he had "outguarded" me with just his taunts (which I don't have yet). I don't care that he "outguarded me", but, being the sensitive (yet very competitive) female I am, wanting to get better at what I do - I am asking those PvP tanks out there this: Do you keep your guard up on the healers at all time? Or, do you switch to multiple targets whose health you see dipping dangerously low (I do do this now and then if it's easy for me to target the person and re target the healer. But I'm not an expert with keyboard layouts so this is not an easy/common thing for me). I probably shouldn't let it get to me - perhaps he was griping because I wasn't guarding him. And it doesn't matter to me if i have the most points in guarding as long as I do my job. But I'd like to hear how others approach this... Thanks!

I'm sorry -- but "QQing" isn't a word that I am familiar with. Care to elaborate?

And now criting will double the amount? Is Bioware planning to decrease the rate of looted crafted items? Too many lootable/quest reward items that obviate the need for crafted ones. By just making the crafted items a few more points better than the looted items it would fix this. I'm concerned also that they are making purples easier to RE. Purples should be something that are rare - on my server at least they actually sell for a smaller profit margin than some of the lower/mid level blues. Maybe with new recipes the glut will correct itself. Hopefully so.

Hmmm perhaps, but also perhaps they couldn't "stem the influx" soon enough (for what ever reason - although they did nerf slicing, which people complained loudly about) - so this was an effort to get those excess creds out of cir? Maybe it's a combo of the two? Maybe the economy has come to a standstill because everyone is playing ME3 ....

If you are addressing me -- you are quite out of line. Since you know nothing about me. : )

I didn't mean to imply that ALL NPC vendors should be eliminated. I do feel. at this point, there's far too many of them, the stat differences between drops/vendors and crafted items have little meaning (at least pre level 50), and the drop rate of artifact items is too high. : )