Ret Pally in WoW was garbage until WotlK revamp; lolret did not succeed in arenas relative to other classes so please ****. WoW was always dominated by superior fotm classes. I too benefitted from this in Wotlk hitting 2300 playing DK/Holy; this doesn't necessarily indicate skill on my part but that the game was severely unbalanced (until I quit, I don't know how it was during Cata.) This game has become JUST like that since 1.2. "Support burst with lots of control" and yet they have less viable support oppurtunities and dps oppurtunities than any other DPS class (barring mercs which are complete garbage, another failure on Bioware's part.) Just like in WoW, I'm noy saying it is IMPOSSSIBLE for a team carrying a concealment operative to succeed (esp. on the bastion lolbastion) but it is nowhere near the ideal linep. There were always comps containing a gimped class in WoW that beat the odds in arena and made it to respectable ranked levels, but this does not indicate overall class balance. P.S. You carry a good oprative healer (or two) on any respectable team to cleanse sniper roots, you don't need a squishy concealment operative.

Occasional spurts of excellent first end burst within the first 4.5 seconds is not better than constant spurts of burst within the first 6-7.5 seconds. Healing through an operative DPS is laughably easy compared to other DPS classes.

Proof refers to the evidence of combined responses in this thread; if the players themselves cannot think of a single instance in which an Operative DPS is preferable to bring to a ranked warzone than I consider that sufficient proof of the classes lack of DPS viability.

Smash Jugs, Carnage Marauders, MM Snipers, Pyro Powertechs all have more burst than us (at least if burst is defined as amount of damage done within the first 5-6 seconds of a fight.) Try again guys. Still waiting.

The word "also" implies "as well" thus indicating another (better) pvp class can do exactly what was being suggested was an Operative strength. Solo capping a node is not possible against good teams in ranked warzones I'm sorry; if that is the only unique strength people can come up with it just reinforces my point. Operatives are garbage DPS.

Sin hybrids do it better. Snipers can cap in cover in voidstar also. No cookie for you.

Whichever Marauder has the biggest head to roll on their keyboard presumably.

Sin hybrid. Next?

You're bad. You win the game sir.

ugh. No examples yet? PROVE THE CLASS IS NOT GIMPED MY MINIONS.

I trust Forum-goers can objectively measure class viability. If none can execute the challenge without being countered by a better class, then objectively operatives are useless (or rather, inferior to any other class.)

Here is my experiment / challenge to you forumgoers (one troll in particular who swears operative DPS is just as viable in warzones as Hybrid Sins or Maras etc.). Name me one or more roles an Operative DPS specc fills in any warzone. ONE CATCH HOWEVER. The role you name must not be filled BETTER BY or EQUAL TO that of another class. Go.

You nailed it bud.

Honestly, if we dont nerf operatives, mercs and sorcerer DPS everyone will unsub.

This is ridiculous guys, Bioware seriously needs to buff Marauders and Sin Hybrids. Our sorc healer nearly lasted 8 full seconds in a ranked match yesterday against a marauder we couldn't peel off of him, *** is that? EIGHT *********** seconds? Buff this class please, their burst is GARBAGE!. As for the Sin Hybrids, why'd you nerf this class? We're actually able to get them down to 60% before they **** every other class now, it just doesn't seem fair to them. Maybe give them an instant heal or something? I think we should all open tickets telling Bioware we're going to unsub unless marauders and sins are buffed, WHO'S WITH ME!??

Power > Cunning at crit cap.

I don't see anything inaccurate about MobiusZero's comments. If you think Operative DPS is on par with other classes utility or damage in warzons you're in either in denial or secretly roll another class and hate operatives anyway.

I just spent few hundred thousand credits testing the old adage of 30% tech crit unbuffed on 5 minute dummy parses and... it's actually true. Crit over 30% (35% with buff) actually lowered my DPS, and crit underneath 30% lowered it also. Using the best gear, a concealment Operative DPS should expect (in an ideal scenario when not having to move) around ~1650 dps. Unfortunately, this puts us below a large chunk of other DPS classes, noticeably Marauders and Snipers. My Stats: 2039 Cunning 1070 Power 235 Critical Rating (35.69% Tech crit chance talented) 570 Surge Rating (80.11% Critical Multiplier) 0 accuracy 2 piece Enforcer Set bonus (15% crit extra on backstab) and 2 piece Field Tech (increased Orbital Strike duration).

Does anybody have any accurate data on whether stacking pure power (ignoring crit completely and going under the 30% crit threshold) increases or decreases our dps at the surge cap?

This is very much a case of "anything you can do I can do better." In the sense that sure, you can perform very well as a DPS Operative or DPS Merc or whatever else you think you are contributing to your team immensely as. However, as a Marauder you would be contributing SO MUCH MORE (or at the very least, the same amount with far less effort.)

At least let me choose what warzones we want to queue for in our premades. Let the roflmaras fotm teams have the hutball and voidstar.

lol you guys must be playing some really bad premades.

Is Bioware aware that the 1.2 patch nerfed Operative DPS into oblivion and there is no viable skill tree besides heals? Just curious.

haha spoken like a true marauder player. Sure, we should have to spec heals because Bioware is horrible at balancing this game.

What universe do u live in where Marauders/Sentinals are getting "rolled" in rateds? Well-geared marauder > any other DPS class.