From the PvP perspective the goal should be to increase survivability and either mobility or control. I don't think our damage in the PvP environment needs any changes. I don't play a lot of watchman so I can't comment much on how fun their rotation is. I've never really liked it tbh but that's a personal problem Here's a list of ideas that BW could use as food for thought in improving the class. Quick disclaimer - these are for brainstorming purposes and only a few should be used in conjunction otherwise the class would be way OP. Pick 1 or 2 and I think we would be good. Survivability Improvments Tweak GTBF/UR to make it better and or Transcendence/Predation. Options include, and could be a combination depending on how much improvement BW wants to make: Health cost up front for GBTF No health cost Less health cost Combine Force Aegis and Enduring Transcendence increases defense chance > 10% Transcendence has a damage resistance component added Transcendence also applies Saber Screen/Blazing Ward/Concentrated Defense Mobility/Control Rework Just Pursuit to require 1 hit of leg slash Add back Crippling Throw and make Just Pursuit give it a root (put in heroic or masterful tier) Transcendence default is sentinel only root break Give Rebuke a chance to cleanse roots when taking damage. Could be a utility. As an addition to Rebuke's current functionality give it X charges that are removed by damaging attacks. When all X are gone any movement impairing affect is removed. QoL Make contemplation build centering at 10 stacks per tick. This wouldn't be OP would it? Consider making centering stacks last 2 min rather than 1 min. Consider allowing Master Strike to be channeled on the move - or provide utility that allows it.

Ok my standpoint is largely from a PvP perspective first of all, and secondly I think our damage is pretty good in that environment. My main concerns are with survivability and mobility in that order. I'd like to see some sentinel specific ability tweaks to GBTF and transcendence. In regards to GBTF I think that it the health cost needs to be looked at. Right now in the Ranked scene I will generally die having taken somewhere less than 60k damage. My health is 41.5k and medpack is like 12k or so. Generally other classes are in the 90-100k damage taken before they die. I definitely get that we've got other defensive CD's but I think the 50% health at the end is pretty steep. Maybe look at no health cost, or if that's OP then 25 to 50% up front. I also think many of the Heroic utilities are not very creative and or lackluster such as the CD reduction (enduring ) and 2 second increase (force aegis) to GBTF heroic utility should just be rolled into one. I think that Just Pursuit should just go away. It's hilariously terrible right now. Maybe add back crippling throw and put a rooting utility in. Maybe add a utility to improve Transcendence's defensive increase. Something like gives the sentinel 20 or 30% increased defensive chance for the duration. Or maybe a utility that adds a 10% DR along with Transcendence to the Sentinel only. Could also bake the root break and Fleetfooted speed into the base Transcendence ability. Those are just some ideas and couldn't all be implemented or Sentinels would be very overpowered. Pick and choose but I'd like to see something done to GBTF and Transcendence and I think adding Crippling Throw back in would be a great step in the right direction!

Thanks for the info Eric! Always great to see yellow text in your main AC's forums ! I appreciate your time in tracking down this specific issue and posting an update for us! Do you have anything to share in regard to how the changes will take place? Will there be any back and forth or will it be here are your changes now go test. Are you looking for community feedback in advance of changes or do you already have an what you're going to do set? Thanks!

I like the Fury/Centering mechanic and would prefer transcendence/zen to be improved rather than taking transcendence off fury/centering. I like the choice. But it needs to be a good choice not a no-brainer.

Most of what you're really saying then is survivability is the main issue. I agree, survivability is the key issue to me, which is why I listed it first. Once that gets fixed then mobility get's more important. Even with Egress, HO, and Through Power/Consuming Rage etc... uptime isn't 100%. In fact, leg slash shares all those same problems with Crippling Throw. It's just inferior to Crippling Throw in every way other than it's spammable if you have the focus. TLDR: fix survivability first and then Crippling Throw > Leg Slash.

Glad you have a sense of humor Heat-wave . If i don't limit the framerates I generally run about 80-120 FPS in most zones. PvP will dip down to the 30's at times. If this were an FPS i'd be hollering but the 30's hasn't really crimped my style that much. I don't spend a lot of time in the 30's and I don't have as good of a computer setup as you either. It's odd

now that is funny! lolol

There are two main issues with sentinels/marauders in my book right now. 1. Survivability 2. Mobility I'd like the survivability fixed with changes to GbtF and transcendance personally but it needs to be addressed one way or the other. The second issue is mobility. You've got 2 choices for mobility, either increase sentinel mobility or decrease other's. With the advent of 3.0 other classes got bigger mobility buffs while sentinels did not and in some cases lost mobility control (ie Crippling Throw). I personally would like Crippling Throw back for several reasons. It gives me another 10m ranged attack. It should be allowed to root possibly with a utility point. Leg slash is a terrible replacement for Crippling Throw. Laughably bad. Does it help our survivability not really - in fringe cases maybe you could root someone with Crippling Throw and then kill them quicker than they kill you but survivability is largely a seperate issue and needs to be addressed separately. The other option for mobility is to give us some form of CC immunity or protection or breaker etc... Either option works but i'd still prefer to have a 10m ability than a 4m ability.

Nah, it's cause you run an AMD video card

I like alot of the suggestions especially around GBTF and the utilities related to it. I litteraly now call GBTF Suicide by the Force because Sentinels/Marauders have the only 2min defensive cooldown that actively kills them. Get rid of leg slash and bring crippling throw back with a slow. Put a utility in there on the Masterful level that will make it a root and fix GBTF. The rest seems pretty ok to me. If you don't like the root on crippling throw then give us some form of immunity to movement imparing effects. Could even tie it to Rebuke. Since a smart player can just stop attacking and rebuke would fall it could add some interesting counterplay. That might be OP but it's an idea.

Yep, i agree. There maybe a case for making the utility masterful too.

1st - Sins by a huge margin 2nd - Sorcs great DPS at range, great kiting and good survivability 3rd - PTs huge burst dps in AP spec although pretty easy to shut down in ranked 4th - Juggs although i think they're almost tied for 3rd. Less burst but more survivability

Thanks for the buide NeNiMel! Dusting off the 55 Mando healer to level up and do some PvP with. Great referesher!

I'd agree we're a few tweaks away from a good place. I'm surprised you didn't mention Deadly Throw / Crippling Throw in your tweak ideas. I think that was pretty important and was really one of the only skills that sentinels could use to control enemy movement consistently.

Agreed

BW is afraid that if they add an expertise requirement for ranked no one's queues will pop.

I think GBTF / Undying Rage needs to be revisited along with the Leg Slash / Deadly Throw change. Honestly the Deadly Throw change is what really bothers me. The other classes are got more mobile and the Sent/Mara got less... And it appears intentional. Sure, the cooldown on Masterstrike/Ravage got almost halved and that allows for more immobilization if you have the utility to add a root to it. And Force Stasis / Choke is much improved but Leg Slash just sucks majorly. It's so bad I still pretty much only use it for the heal debuff they added to it.... GBTF/UR just needs to be reverted, or all the other classes need their defensive CD's nerfed. One or the other i guess.

Nice waterboy! TAC, you think that's the case for all classes or just combat sentinel/carnage marauder due to ability to get an extra attack in the zen window? Seems like if alacrity adrenals are best for all classes they'd potentially be even better for combat/carnage.

Thanks for the replys! Did you get that 50.45% alacrity by gearing that in game of from an alacrity equation? Just curious. That works about to about 1929 alacrity? Doesn't seem like it's a viable gearing alternative given the required amounts of alacrity and the total lack of accuracy for PvE or expertise for PvP. Probably possible to do it with the next tier of gear but again it would only be for an extreme scenario like someone trying to epeen by doing the most damage possible in 3 seconds rather than anything useful.

owned lol

Yeah i'd wondered about actually activating Clashing Blast a tiny bit before precision to see if i could make it work that way. Or if the old clipping tricks work in 3.0. Do you think that the gore/precision window mechanic will make Alacrity more beneficial for combat/carnage than it is for other classes?

Yeah that adrenal maybe the best for carnage/combat. Between it and a moderate amount of alacrity from gear you'd be able to fit in 4 attacks in the zen/berserk gore windows. There are relics that boost alacrity too if i'm not mistaken. That would be another option that could be looked at.

That's getting really close then. From what I hear surge is more important for most classes but since precision/gore is a pretty unique mechanic I wondered if fitting another attack in it would be what tips the scale in Alacrity's favor for Combat/Carnage. Looks like outside of the adrenal in 186 gear you can't quite make it. I wonder if you can in the 198 gear? Need 100 alacrity more essentially. Reguardless of DPS a 0.75 second GCD would be fun to play . Has anyone checked how Zen/Berserk affect CD's on things such as TST and MS/Ravage? If you popped zen and then used MS/Ravage would it's CD be 18 seconds*(1-Alacrity) = 12 seconds? Sorry at work atm.

How much does the PvE adrenal give? Found the old alacrity curve for 55. Assuming the equation didn't change except for going to level 60 it would require an Alacrity Rating of 1851 to reach 17% alacrity from gear alone. Advanced Alacrity Augment 36 give 52 right? So that's 728 if you get all 14. Leaving 1123 required on actual gear pieces.

I don't have the equation for the alacrity curve but simplistically with 50% alacrity one would be able to put 4 attacks inside the new 3 second gore/precision window. 50%x1.5 second GCD = 0.75 sec GCD x 4 = 3 secs With 33% alacrity coming from Zen/Berserk and Ataru form that leaves 17% to come from other sources. I know there is the 10% raid buff source but I'm curious if the diminishing returns on the alacrity stat curve would allow for 17% to come from gear. Looking at askmrrobot for a sanity check I came up with 14.65% alacrity from gear. But that's at 55 rather than 60. Then again with the new tier of augments, which askmrrobot doesn't have, one could budget another 280 alacrity rating. I'm curious how this would affect our dps, obviously very short term (~ 5 sec) it would be an increase to burst. a 50% Reduction of cooldowns would also shave quite a few seconds off of our cooldowns making it interesting in that respect as well. Anybody looked at this? I'm just kind of brainstorming at this point.