In concept that works, though the problem comes in when all the pre-nerf kills were in "hard mode", whereas nightmare mode is now the standard for tracking progression, meaning they dont even get counted in that respect. Again, this goes back to my earlier point about how being 100% objective is not necessarily the best way to go about it. My suggestion is still to have pre-nerf kill dates for Soa/Bonethrasher count as nightmare kill dates on the site, as they were effectively (and unanimously) harder than their corresponding nightmare counterparts. That way, pre-nerf kills wont count for more as you said, but they still get counted in a system that emphasizes "nightmare" mode kills, where nightmare mode is just a label in of itself. As I said before, soa/bonethrasher prenerf in hard mode were effectively nightmare-mode encounters in every way except label. They shouldnt be discounted just to strictly adhere to nomenclature.

I guess that makes sense, though I would still argue that the most "objective" way to rank is not necessarily always the best. What do you say, then, to guilds who worked hard and got the pre-nerf kills, only to have them not counted in the rankings?

The amount of effort put into this site is obvious, nice work. There are some tweaks to the ranking system I would like to see. First off, why is every kill weighted the same? Why is, say, the ancient pylons, arguably the easiest boss, worth the same as tougher ones like Jarg/Sorno and Soa? Also, I do believe some of the pre-nerf stuff should be counted. Pre-nerf Soa/bonethrasher were significantly harder in hard mode than they were in nightmare mode after the fix - shouldnt guilds that got the toughest kills in the game so far have that reflected in the rankings? It's still technically all part of the same tier - at the very least the hard mode kill dates should count as the equivalent nightmare mode kill dates, if nothing else.

Power is usually the way to go, if only because the BM gear already has so much crit on it to begin with (especially if you use the BM lightsaber). Crit used to be much more valuable, as only crit melee abilities procced mind crush instead of just any melee ability, and surge used to be better point for point. Now, however, I'd say anything above ~300 crit rating is starting to push the DR. As for pure willpower, it's fairly close. I'd say that on a 1:1 ratio willpower is better than power, but higher willpower always comes in higher-endurance mods, meaning you end up wasting itemization to get more of it. Oh, and expertise is definitely the #1 stat. Never roll into a wz without at least 400, and ~500 is a good number to stay at; right now I'm using full BM except my trinkets and MH/OH, though my rakata MH does have an expertise crystal in it (which is great if you dont like the crit on the BM saber). Also, focused insight only heals you for 2% of your HP, up from 1% without the upper-tier talent psychic absorption (assuming 2 points in each).

Well kinetic is 10 different kinds of OP right now, so if you're used to that level of power anything less will feel gimped.

The problem is that, at the moment and for the foreseeable near future, warzones are strictly single server phenomena. If you put a hard restriction that people who Q in groups can only play against others who Qd in groups, then people wouldnt be able to just log on and play - they'd need to be sure there was another group out there also Qing, lest they wait for it to pop for over an hour.

It's definitely tough to get used to, but I imagine it'd be even tougher to go back to infiltration after experiencing having so much range and utility.

Taking suggestions for Qs for me to A in the FAQ section, as long as you ask them F enough.

There’s been a recent surge of attention for the shadow balance spec, and since I practically invented the spec I’ve decided to write up a lil guide for all yall “ghetto sages” in the making. Table of Contents: Prologue - Who is Jurugar? 1) Pros/Cons 2) Spec and Gear 3) Important Abilities 4) Ability Priority 5) General Tips about Balance 6) FAQ Prologue - Who is Jurugar? Scholars have been attempting to answer this question for many years. Some say he's good. Others say he's really good. Some say he's okay. Others say he's really okay. Credentials: -been playing Balance since early January -member of Nerf Dialogue, one of the top raiding guilds that peaked at US #1 on the "hard stuff" -is better than you as a player and a person And that's that. 1) Pros and Cons If you're wondering what a balance shadow is, it's one that uses that 3rd talent tree that isnt kinetic or infiltration. Here's some of what it offers compared to the other two: Pros: -more CC/utility, including a root -longer range (2 moves with 30m range, several with 10m) -higher sustained damage -less force starved -dots -better damage in group environments -moderate self healing As balance, you get more moves that let you skirt on the edge of melee combat rather than dive right in like a knight would. You have instant cast force lift for more control, a 30m range root for, well, a million different things (catching up, kiting, running away, positioning, etc), and "fire and forget" damage in the form of dots. But, as with all good things (the obvious exception being Jurugar), there are some downsides too: Cons: -hardest to master -more difficult to 1v1 -less burst than infiltration -less survivability than kinetic -longer downtime of defensive CDs -somewhat proc reliant -less AOE than kinetic (but more than infiltration) In general, playing balance feels the least like one would expect from playing a shadow. You lack the burst of infiltration or the survivability of kinetic, and as a result 1v1ing can become more difficult. 2) Spec and Gear With specs, there's very little variation with the main 31 points. Preferences come more into play when you decide your remaining 10. 0/10/31 (This is the spec I use) -~5% reduction in kinetic/energy dmg -3 stealth levels -15% movement speed -2s reduction for mind snap -30s reduction for force of will 7/3/31 -6% dmg to double strike -3% crit -10 seconds off force speed -15 seconds off resilience It really depends on how you want to play. I like having the passive movement speed buff and the reduction on kick/trinket, but if you want a bit more damage and shorter CDs you can go the 2nd route. As for gear, it's pretty self explanatory. I like to keep my crit at around 28-29% self buffed, but that's just preference. Crit scales comparatively well with balance because of the built in surge to dots/force in balance/double strike, as well as the fact that dot crits heal you for 2% of your hp. I'm currently using a rakata MH with an expertise crystal and power enhancements, so I dont have to worry about the ****-ton of crit on the BM MH. Contrary to a lot of info out there, I'm not going to tell you to ignore accuracy. Get at least 5-6%, and dont blindly stack surge way past the DR just to avoid it - I think I've got about 98% accuracy. You dont have to go full BM if you dont want to, though I would still work towards getting a full set for when 1.2 reworks the expertise DR. In the end, power is the way to go, but dont ignore the other stats. 3) Important Abilities A lot of this should be self explanatory; some of it will not be. Stick close and pay attention. Double Strike (no CD, 22 force) - Your go-to move if you cant do anything better. Does decent damage, especially with the bonus 50% surge. Don't underestimate it. Project (6s CD, 39 force, 10m) - One of the toughest things about switching to balance is retraining yourself to not use project every time it's up. It's your most force-thirsty move by far and doesnt do enough damage to warrant usage other than to proc twin disciplines every 20 seconds for the bonus 10% melee power. Force in Balance (15s CD, 25 force, 30m) - Probably the most important move to a balance shadow. 30m range, internal damage, hits up to 3 targets, and applies force suppression, which gives your next 10 dot ticks on the target 20% extra damage as well as refunding 2 force per tick. It is a manually-cast ground target aoe that takes practice to master - both in hitting several spaced targets at once and in not wasting uptime by trying to aim it. Force Breach (no CD, 20 force, 10m) - This is no longer a single target nuke, nor is it an aoe with a debuff. Force breach is now a DOT that deals high kinetic damage and has no CD, meaning you can apply it to multiple enemies in succession. As I said, it's a dot; dont spam it on a single target. Shadow Strike (proc, 25 force) - One of your hardest nukes. As a balance shadow you'll end up using this a lot, as you'll have the extra force for it and you wont be locked in the CV-CV-project infiltration cycle. It does heavy single target damage and ignores 50% of your target's armor. It also requires you to not be facing your target; you can shadow strike from behind or to one side. Sever Force (9s CD, 20 force, 30m)- Internal damage DOT that also snares for 2 seconds. You'll likely end up spamming this even though it'll waste dmg because the snare is unaffected by resolve. Has a thousand uses. Mind Crush (proc, 0 force, 10m) - A moderate-dmg kinetic instant spell that also leaves a short but powerful dot. One of your harder hitting moves, and it's free! Spinning Strike (6s CD, 25 force) - Usable on targets at or below 30% hp (though sometimes it wont activate if it's exactly 30%). Hardest hitting move that should be used whenever possible, as often as possible. Force Lift (1minute CD, 20 force, 30m) - Instant cast incapacitate that lasts for 8 seconds. Great for 2v2s, 1v2s, capping nodes, forcing trinkets, CCing healers...If it breaks early from damage then it adds an additional 2s stun, which is both nice and annoying - it's extra CC, but the stun will cap their resolve if it goes off. The rest of the moves you can figure out yourself; however, I will stop and comment on Telekinetic Throw. In short: use sparingly, if at all. It doesnt benefit from twin disciplines, eats 2 GCDs, requires you to be stationary, can be interrupted, doesnt have bonus surge, and costs 30 force. If you're being kited, you dont want to stand still for 3 seconds. If you're kiting, you dont want to stand still for 3 seconds. Really the only time you should consider using TK throw is if you have leftover charge(s) on your force potency and force in balance isn't up, and you arent being targetted to be stunned/interrupted. Otherwise, it only does a little more dmg than a double strike/auto attack combo, costs more force, and has fewer chances to proc force technique and shadow strike, as well as the complete inability to proc mind crush. 4) Ability Priority A loose priority chart is as follows: 1. Spinning Strike (target at 30% or less) 2. Force in Balance 3. Shadow Strike (proc only) 4. Mind Crush (proc only) 5. Project (dots not expiring, twin disciplines off) 6. Sever Force (dot not on target) 7. Force Breach (dot not on target) 8. Double Strike 9. Saber Strike 5) General Tips about Balance -DONT use project on CD I already mentioned this before, but as balance, project is more of a liability than an asset. Only use it to reapply the twin disciplines buff -dont spam force breach See above -dont be afraid to let twin disciplines fall off Twin disciplines only buffs your melee bonus damage. If it's about to fall off and you have to do more important things, like use force in balance, refresh your dots or use a mind crush proc, there's no point to casting project before using those abilities if they wont benefit from it anyway. Instead, you'd just be shortening the effective buff uptime. Similarly, if you can use spinning strike, dont delay using it just to reapply twin disciplines -it's ok to refresh sever force for the root As I said earlier, a 2s root on a 9s CD is often worth wasting force/dmg on a non-full duration sever force -watch your mind crush proc It'll happen pretty much on internal CD (7.5 seconds), so plan accordingly. For example, if the buff is half gone, use it before using another melee ability, or else it'll refresh itself instead of granting you 2 back to back mind crush usages (which I wouldnt advise, since it would waste the dot) -when it comes to force in balance, a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush AKA make sure you always hit at least one target with it, instead of trying to split the difference between 2 and missing entirely. It's a cornerstone of your damage/force regen and you cant afford to miss -dont dot a target that's about to die Waste of force and possibly a CD -use LOS to your advantage You have DOTs now - you dont need to have 100% uptime to do 100% damage. While you're not doing a lot of damage while pillar humping in voidstar, you're still doing more than the guy who's chasing you - 0. -you can kite moderately well should you need to Against heavy melee like sentinels and powertechs, dont be afraid to skirt at the 10m range to whittle them down. You're not going to be able to stand toe to toe with them if they know what they're doing, so make full use of your tools. Combine sever force, force slow, force speed and 15% increased movement speed (if you used my spec) and you can see why I call the spec the "ghetto sage" -sever force and force in balance dont require facing You can cast those two abilities without having to face your target, which is great for when you're trying to run away/towards an objective/somewhere else and want to use sever force. Force in balance is tougher to use because you still have to aim the reticule (which your camera wont let you do if you're moving), but you can still do it if you're standing still and want to hit someone behind you/want to look cool 6) FAQ Why pick shadowy veil over shadow's respite? As balance, you are not as force starved as you are in infiltration. That extra 24 force when you start a fight isn't as good as 30% increased armor. Why not pick up expertise in the kinetic tree? 9% more damage to force breach? That talent only increases the damage of force technique, not force technique's force breach (or any technique's force breach for that matter). Why cant I beat class X? I could always beat class X as infiltration/kinetic. As I said earlier, balance is not as good in 1v1s as the other two specs. And kinetic is OP, go away. Have you ever tried x/x/(<31)? No. Get sever force. How do you perform the famous "Jurugar's Gamble" to capture a point? It's pretty simple. If there's a tank, healer or anyone who wont die quickly enough solo defending a node, mind maze them, then fake like you're capping the point (you shouldnt be able to cap it in time, since mind maze lasts 8 seconds but it takes a GCD to unstealth before you can interact with the node). If they're dumb, they'll trinket your sap, at which point you simultaneously use force lift while interacting with the node to guarantee a cap. Note: this only works against idiots. What's your highest damage game? So far it's 705k, though I stopped trying for big numbers a long time ago - whenever my team is not in danger of losing, I mostly play iPod games and guard the door/node If you found this useful, dont forget to share it with other would-be balance shadows, and make sure to keep it bumped so I dont have to double-post more than twice a day.

Ive decided to write a quick balance guide/FAQ because everyone's all up on my spec lately. If you have a Q that you would like to A (at least a few times to make it F), lemme know so I can put it in. Key points will include: -specing -gear -pros/cons -playstyle -important abilities -1v1s -fun facts

Meh, use shadow strike if you want to play it like a shadow and retain a little burst. It's one of your best moves anyway - 25 force for 3k+ crits (upwards of 4k, more with CDs) that pierce armor. Plus it benefits from twin disciplines. Compare that with something like TK throw, that doesnt benefit from twin disciplines, doesnt pierce armor, eats 2 GCDs, requires you to be stationary, can be interrupted, costs 30 force...even if you could potentially squeak out a little more dmg depending on armor, a single auto attack would more than make up the difference...while still being more force efficient. Shadow's respite is trash, we have enough energy regen without it, especially right when you open out of stealth because you'll have your full FiB to eat through. Double-saber defense is marginally worse than shadowy veil - the force regen is less than noticeable, and ~5% reduction to kinetic/energy dmg trumps 4% defense rating, as that defense rating wont help against "spells" that deal physical dmg - things like TK throw/force lightning, grav round/tracer missile, project/shock, etc.

It got closed too fast. You still using the wrong 10 leftovers?

I have been playing balance for over two months. *I* am the balance authority. Ask your questions, young ones, and I will do my best to impart my knowledge to you.

Now with more Jurugar!

I have not, though technically resilience only grants you 100% resistance - if someone had accuracy above 100%, they could in theory still hit you with special attacks if they were lucky enough.

I kept trying to bring this up in the PTS but they kept closing my threads.

Nerf. Kinetic. Now.

You're wasting 3 points on expertise. That increases the dmg of your techniques aka force technique, not force technique's force breach. With your leftover 10 points, you can go one of two ways: Full infiltration - 0/10/31 -shadow strike -5% reduced kinetic dmg (shadowy veil > shadow's respite for balance) -15% movement speed -3 stealth levels -2 seconds off mind snap -30 seconds off force of will or Kinetic/infiltration - 7/3/31 -shadow strike -3% crit -6% dmg on DS -10 seconds off force speed -15 seconds off resilience Balance has a lot more nuances. For example, when you vanish you're immune to heals until it wears out or you break it yourself.

This is a thread for all of us who are on the more fortunate side of the law of large numbers. I am 9/27, putting me comfortably at a 1/3 chance for a token.

I wouldnt expect Lyon, lvl 50 Sniper from the Jekk'Jekk Tar server to understand.

I am here. Ask your questions.

Why are people acting like this is the only defensive CD marauders have? -Undying rage - 75 second CD with 2piece pvp (can be further reduced down to 45s in the rage tree) - 99% dmg reduction for 5s -Cloak of pain - 60 sec CD - 20% dmg reduction plus reflected damage for upwards of 30s -Obfuscate - 45 sec CD with talents - target 90% reduced accuracy for 6s -Force Camouflage - 45 sec CD - immunity to damage while invisible with talents for 4s -Saber Ward - 180 sec CD - 50% physical defense and 25% force dmg reduction for 12s Oh, and stop trying to make the 50% health cost a big deal; you're retarded if you use it before you're at your last bit of health anyway. At the very least undying rage should make you immune to heals as well for some risk-reward, like the shadow's vanish does untalented. Nothing more frustrating than seeing the target in the kill range jump back up in health without you being able to stop them.

Response inc.

You really need at least a little expertise to not die in 3 hits. I'd say wear anything with expertise, even if you're losing other stats, until at least 300-400, then you can be picky about what you want to do.

I'd agree with your stat weightings in general, but you took them too far on your own build. Why stack surge that high when your crit rating is only ~180, and your accuracy is just above 1%? Your shadow strike/spinning strike/cv strikes have about a 13% chance to not land, upwards of 18% depending on the class you're fighting (and that's not including tanks with higher defense). A single additional accuracy enhancement would increase your accuracy by almost 2%, at the cost of, what, .6% surge? You havent even hit the 25% mark on the crit DR yet, and you're still giving up on things like pure weapon damage/force power just to avoid it. Or is your playstyle designed around only fighting when all of your CDs are up?