So far, the consensus is that it: Appeals most strongly to players who like its looks. Has the same mobility as a bomber. Only has a viable defensive role in Domination matches which will serve to diminish a team's offensive power. Is made up of all the least used components in the game. Buffs provided are underwhelming for the difficulty of providing them. Suggested fixes: Drop Interdiction drive and add Barrel Roll or Retro Thrusters (Preferably both). Replace Thermite Torpedoes with a more useful option. (Cluster Missiles or Concussion Missiles) Increase the range of the buffs. (If the mobility problem is solved, this won't be as big of a problem) Put Thrusters on it. Drop sensors if you must. Replace underwhelming Sensor Beacon with Booster Recharge. What we have here is a fighter that will be popular for its looks, and bring doom to whichever side has the most players who are playing it for that reason. It will lead to a lot of yelling in OPS Chat by people who want the team to select more useful ships, and a lot of other people who only play for the daily/weekly or fast XP who won't care. Among the majority of experienced players, these things, if purchased at all, will gather dust in the hanger just like... hmmm... so that's why they call it a DUSTMAKER!

Just had another thought. Imagine when these things come out and everyone wants to try it or get it mastered. Imagine if you will, the horror when the other team realizes that your side is fielding several Bloodmarks or Spearpoints. It won't be pretty. And if you expect people in pugs to give a damn when you tell them to get other ships out, you're in for a very rude awakening. You join a game hoping to try this thing out, lo and behold, your team is full of them. Yeah... this isn't going to be pretty at all.

^ This And we already have a situation where people want to camp out at the first captured sat and turtle up. I've seen games where everyone on the Imperial team just rushed one satellite and stayed there for the duration of the game and when you ask them why they're not moving they respond "More medals if you just defend, we'll lose anyway." Adding more ships dedicated to a defensive role won't be healthy for the game at all. We don't need Scouts and Strike Fighters doing a Bomber's Job, or having a Bomber's mobility for that matter.

The Barrel Roll nerf is another topic entirely, and one I whole-hearty stand against, and there's a specific thread about it. This thread is about the lackluster Bloodmark / Spearpoint and, as was raised previously, how potentially fatal it could be for the Imperial GSF experience to have the most iconic looking ship be the most lackluster and toothless. I don't see the need for these support crafts. There's room in the line up for a new tier of Scout and Strike fighter. But relegating them to this highly situational and, I dare say, irrelevant support role, isn't going to be good for the game. This Scout has: The best look No defense No offense No mobility Support buffs which you'll be lucky to get off in any meaningful way, even if they increased the range to 10k and doubled their durations.

Interdiction Drive Sensor Beacon EMP Missles Ion Missles Thermite Torpedoes To name a few examples, this is exactly what they did. They even gave the unused Comet Breaker / Dustmaker those Thermite Torps... Though, the missile load out choice does give this thing the potential to fill a very useful combat role for the team which is otherwise neglected because Strike Fighters have much harder hitting missiles as options, so these choices tend to be neglected on those ships. The Interdiction Drive doesn't get used on Bombers because the other choices Hyperspace beacon and the converter thingy are much more useful for the defensive role they're designed for, and the versatility role they can provide in Deathmatch. Also, to reiterate what was said before... Because the Bloodmark is the single most iconic Imperial ship. I'd even venture that it's THE SYMBOL OF STRENGTH FOR THE EMPIRE which has been put out there in all the media as the front line Imperial Fighter, it'll be chosen by many, if not most of the new players or the "I just want to get the daily done for credits and or XP" crowd who just want something cool to fly. Thus we'll end up flooded with toothless support ships in many matches and the already bad Imperial GSF experience will become even worse.

Thank you for understanding and articulating my thoughts in a better way than I ever could have. The part I underlined, will be the biggest problem. That's why this thing needs the option to be built with the mobility of the other scouts, and some teeth.

Errr... Scouts kind of are a class of ship. Bombers Gunships Scouts Strike Fighters Those are ship classes. Each one has a unique role already. If they added these in as a "Support" class, it'd make sense. Still be really bad, but make sense. Right now, you have two kinds of Scots Blackbolt / Novadive - I guess 'jack of all trades' Sting / Flashfire - The best Close quarters combat dog fighter. And now we introduce... Bloodmark / Spearpoint - All the weaknesses of a Scout, and none of the strengths. Tries to be a mid-range combat specialist but falls short on actual combat abilities. Provides buffs to everyone in close range but can never show itself in the open for fear of being picked off by an Ion Rail Gun.

I haven't spoken about the Strike fighter because, I don't have nearly enough hours in one to really understand the wants and needs of a Strike Fighter pilot. Now I suppose I should describe what I think the T3 Scout should actually be, instead of whatever it's trying to be. Honestly, I say forget the whole concept of a "Support Fighter" and just have this third tier of Scout be like the others with a different configuration for combat. Drop the support fields and give it booster recharge and blaster over charge as options. No need for EMP because it's packing the EMP missiles. Just, drop Thermite Torpedoes and give it Cluster missiles instead. On the matter of Engines, just put Barrel Roll and Retro thrusters into the mix. Nobody wants or likes Power Dive, and nobody in his right mind will use Interdiction Drive. For the shield options.... whatever. Everyone's going to use Distortion Field regardless, some people like Quick Charge Shields and they have their merits, but you can leave the other two options because I suppose it'll fill a nice little niche, and some really good players can evade missiles with just engines and an obstacle course. (I'm not one of them btw.) Thrusters... for the love of all that's good and holy, give it thrusters! Something between a Blackbolt and Sting, able to play like either, with different offensive options provided by the choices of missiles will make this perfect! It isn't a Sting because it doesn't have the Burst Cannons or Quad Laser, but it isn't a Blackbolt because it's packing some seriously versatile Missile Power. These options I've laid out has the tools to set up for dog fighting(Cluster Missiles), dislodging bombers(EMP Missiles), and hampering gunships(Ion Missiles). It'll fit right in with the role a Scout was intended for. Not, whatever this thing was trying to be but will fail horribly at like the Dustmaker/Comet Breaker like the poster above me pointed out. Anyway... If you want a sense for how this scout will play as it currently is, join a regular pug game. Fly a Blackbolt with Sensor Beacon or Targeting Telemetry. Distortion Field is OK, but if you want a sense of what it will be like without it, don't use it. Mount either Power Dive, Koiogran Turn, or Snap Turn. Mount Turing Thrusters without any upgrades to it if you can. I know, you might think "But Tensor Field!" and I say BUT NOTHING! You want to get a sense of what it'll be like with no thrusters. Stick with the "pack" of scouts and Strike Fighters in the melee as if you're trying to give them the buffs. Try not to die for the whole game while still contributing some damage and kills. That's what it will be like for a Bloodmark.

For the record, I haven't been able to test these things out because there aren't any GSF games going on the PTR. So I'll just have to look at it on paper.. which is undoubtedly how most of us will get to see them until they go live and actually get tested. PRIMARY WEAPONS Nothing spectacular here, all standards. Rapid-fire Laser Cannons, Light Laser Cannons, and Laser Cannons. SECONDARY WEAPONS This is where these scouts have their true potential. Ion Missles - Oh yeah! Very nice. EMP Missles - VERY VERY NICE! Finally a Scout with proper Anti-Bomber tools! Thermite Torpedoes - Meh... ENGINES This is where things start to become really lackluster. Power Dive - "I love to crash into stuff or go nowhere fast!" Interdiction Drive - Errr.... right. Why exactly? Doesn't break missile locks or evades locked on missiles. Bombers already don't do this, why would anyone think a Scout would want to? Snap Turn - I guess this is ok... I guess.... turn into your attackers and afterburn the hell out of there until you're out of engine power or reach the safety of a nice big rock or satellite to fly around until you get dizzy. Because... throwing up is so much fun! Koiogran Turn - The favorite of beginner Strike Pilots who don't yet know that Barrel Roll is their best chance of getting to the other side of the map sometime this week, if perhaps not today. It has also been the death of many unfortunate pilots who've tried to evade a missile lock while flying under a satellite. Systems And now, by sacrificing everything a scout is suppose to do well, we get to what this particular scout is suppose to be doing well. Support... "Ladies and gentlemen, we have thrown out the tried and true systems such as Booster Recharge, EMP Field, and Blaster Overcharge. We left in Targeting Telemetry though just to see who's going to try and build this thing for actual combat instead of keeping it as a nice spectator seat!" Combat Command - Increases the weapon power and accuracy of everyone on your team who's fortunate enough to stay inside of 5000 meters of you by 10% for 20 seconds! Also, by the time they realize the real threat is 15000 meters away and they all barrel roll away from you to go engage that threat, they'll leave you behind to die in seconds unless you can find cover quickly enough! Because.. we all know effective space fighter combat should be a game of hide and seek. Tensor Field - Because keeping up with your team mates and enemies has been made difficult enough for you, here you can ensure that your enemies will want to boost as far away from you as possible while a Gunship picks you off... what was this thing suppose to do again? Sensor Beacon - Because drones and mines last so long against intelligent opposition, let's just give them one more nice stationary thing to fire AoE Ion Rail Guns at. Targeting telemetry - YAY! Something not useless on a useless scout! Shields Shield Projector - "Hmm... something to make me useful to my team while also making me missile fodder..." Distortion Field - Well, at least they don't totally hate me. Repair Drone - See Shield Projector. Also see Sensor Beacon. Sensors All standard, nothing remarkable. Reactor Standard set of choices... Thrusters We had to take these out to make room for... what exactly? Armor Standard set of choices for a scout. Capacitor Standard choices. So the Tier 3 Scout is a support fighter that will have a very hard time actually lending any support because it'll just be a flying bullseye. No thrusters for faster power regeneration or more endurance for getting out of trouble. No booster recharge to save you when you get hit by the Ion Rail Guns... no barrel roll to actually get out of the Gunship's line of fire in any sort of timely manner. So what's this thing suppose to be good for? Raising the enemy team's kill count? I don't see this thing being deadly even in the hands of the top elite of pilots. It's certainly not for the beginners, or intermediates, or... seriously, who's this thing for?

The devs don't communicate at all regarding GSF. Or much about anything else at all, but GSF players certainly get the least amount of communication. Now, to the matter at hand, here's my two cents on the Barrel Roll nerf. It's the dumbest idea I've ever heard. Closing the distance to a Gunship is already tricky business. Sure they can Barrel Roll away, but if you do it right, your BR will be up before you start attacking and get noticed. Also, as a Scout, you have tissue paper for armor and the least amount of HP. If you can't go fast, and keep going fast, and have a reliable "GET ME OUT OF HERE" button, you're doomed. Barrel Roll works fine as it is. Why fix something that isn't broken? If anything, they should rethink the idiotic Power Dive and Koiogran Turn. Retro Thrusters and Barrel Roll work fine, Retro's are unbelievably amazing in the hands of the top elite of Pilots, Barrel Roll is fine for everyone. It's the other ones that are crap. The only thing this nerf will accomplish is make Gunships and Bombers more popular. Every Scout pilot I've spoken too except for the MOST die-hard plan to switch to another ship and infact, are already working on upgrading either their bombers or Gunships. So yeah... this isn't going to be pleasant for GSF. As was stated before, the learning curve is already ENORMOUS, and playing a ship without any upgrades is already VERY painful. taking away a few things that makes it all so much fun, isn't a wise move at all. And Barrel Roll... IS FUN! A LOT OF FUN! Going fast in a scout, barrel rolling through tight spaces, leading pursuers through tight obstacles at top speed... when you're in a lopsided match that's already not a lot of fun... taking away things that give you some enjoyment... Yeah.. I'll probably be done with GSF after this goes live. And since GSF is the only thing keeping me paying for this game and playing it... yeah... see you all in WildStar. No, you can't have my stuff, I'll dump it all into my guild bank for other people who still enjoy other aspects of this game.

Star Trek Online is one of the best examples of a Pay to Win game currently on the market. Comparing it to SWOR made me laugh my head off. That being said, SWTOR does cruise on a very thin line with how close they came to being pay to win in GSF. It almost feels like they wanted it to be fully pay to win but somewhere along the line, the right people won the argument and we got the "questionable but acceptable" system we have now. Having to pay Cartel Coins to convert Ship Requisition to Fleet Requisition instead of having it convert at a ratio like Warzone Commendations to Ranked Commendations. The only reason people didn't turn the forums into a massive rage storm is because of how easy it is to gain requisition. However, I fear that many people have availed themselves of the "almost pay to win" system that's in GSF and it sends BioWare/EA the wrong message about what it's alright to charge us for. So in the future, I'm sure we can expect many more "Pay to get things quicker" features with the game.

Someone I've asked this question to gave me the suggestion of loading up Thermite Torpedo on a Blackbolt and using it to spook the Gunship into using it's defenses up, and then they would chase them down and kill them with blasters. Most of the time they would barrel roll closer to the attacking scout to evade the missile lock thus giving them a bigger engine power advantage. I'm not sure I could make this work if I tried. But the theory is sound. Besides, the next bomber I come across will make me miss my rocket pods.

Some of these responses are just the height of callousness. The tactic described in the OP is only effective against uncoordinated pick up groups. Teams I've seen using this tactic tend to quit when they face other proper teams. Which is all fine and dandy in my book, it just shows how pathetic and worthless they really are at the game. But it still makes playing solo for fun a rather frightening prospect because you never know when you'll end up facing these people. On the flip side, watching them quit when they find that your side has a premade team who've all set up to hard counter them, is very entertaining. It's even better when they actually try to put up a fight and make their stupid little "tactic" work. In short, People just want easy wins. They seldom have the stones to actually go and earn their wins.

That way... it won't be a painful chore to play GSF from your alts. Trying to play on anything but my main is just horrible and painful. It's just not fun at all. If the power difference between a fully upgraded ship and a new ship wasn't that big, the system would be fine, but as it stands, it is enormous.

I have tried them, I just don't like them. They just feel... I don't know how to say this without it sounding stupid, but I just don't like how they feel. It's sort of difficult to explain. I just don't "feel" them doing their damage, they just fire and some numbers appear on the screen, most of the time you don't even see the blaster bolts.

Try both, see what works for YOU. The thing is, stats on paper don't mean much of anything. The ideal build for a Sting includes the following: Burst Laser Cannons, Damage Overcharge, shield piercing co-pilot, double volley cluster missiles. In theory, they'll give you the best possible damage output. But in practice, that doesn't mean squat unless you can make it work. Personally, I run my sting with Quad Laser Cannons and I use the DoT upgrade on my clusters and when I play my best, I can keep up with others Stings/Flashfires using the FOTM Builds. Oh, and I run with the repair co-pilot ability. Contributing top kills in Death match is worthless if you're also contributing top deaths.

I agree. What's the point of a front line support craft that doesn't have the tools needed to participate or even survive in that environment? This obvious needs to be tested very thoroughly on the PTR, and then very thoroughly dismissed when it's proven to be the cannon fodder that I predict it will become.

Thanks for that! I added as an after thought to my above post that I think it needs more combat oriented options to be in line with the other scouts, having the option for all the support tools is all fine and dandy, but as others have said, I feel this thing will be useless for solo play unless you can build it to be able to fight like the other scouts and keep up with them.

This new scout variant is just going to be canon fodder for all enemies because it has a total lack of mobility necessary for a Scout to survive. Without Thrusters, or barrel roll, I don't get how this thing is suppose to survive against all the missile packing enemies. To say nothing of what Gunships will do to it. Let me break down the options and my reasoning behind this, and then maybe someone can explain to me what I'm doing wrong or thinking wrong. Primary Weapons: Light Laser Cannon Rapid Fire Laser Cannon Laser Canon These are all fine choices really. But Laser Cannons seems to be the 'mandatory' choice because of their longer range and decent damage output. I would have liked to have seen Burst as an option here, but, I'll take these. Light Laser cannons are my usual choice just because most of my battles happen at close range. Secondary Weapons: Ion Missles EMP Missles Thermite Torpedos Is this even a choice really? EMP is going to be the mandatory choice here to shut out enemy engine abilities so you or your scouts can swoop in for the kill. Not to mention what this will do to bombers, the bane of everyone's existence. Ion isn't necessary because reliable Gunship pilots already do this, and do it very well. Engines: Power Dive - Does anyone actually use this now? Not something you want at all if you're always going to be hugging asteroids or cliffs to evade missile locks. Interdiction Drive - Bombers don't even use this. I can see how it'll be useful for a scout, but, over a choice that breaks missile locks? How is this even going to be given consideration? Snap Turn - This is probably excellent for Dog Fighting, so, I'll probably end up with this. Koiogran Turn - See power dive. Systems: Combat Command - Nice! Tensor Field - Very nice! Sensor Beacon - With all the Anti-bomber weapons that are out now, I don't thin this'll be my personal pick. Targeting Telemetry - I don't get this. Why would you pick something that improves your personal firepower over something that the fighter was designed to do? Honestly, out of these choices, I'd say drop TT, and replace it with Booster Recharge to give you more "get out of trouble" options. Shield Projector: Shield Projector - Alright, but... Distortion Field - This is mandatory for scouts already. Without the evasion and missile break, how long can you really last? Repair Drone - Would if I could, but without DF, this thing is just cannon fodder. This is pointless to put on a scout, reliable support bombers already do this. Sensors: No comments. I really don't know enough about each choice to really decide. I just know that dampening is good for sneaking up on Gunships. Reactor: Really? I'm really iffy on having this over Thrusters. Armor: Standard choices here. Pick whatever makes you happy. Capacitor: Same as Armor. Overall, this is a scout variant that doesn't have the speed, mobility, or engine endurance of a scout. There will be no escape once your engine power runs out, and once someone is on you, all you're going to be doing is begging your team mates for help since you won't have the option to make a quick and clean escape to reassess your situation and reengage. Maybe the point of this thing isn't combat at all, that's fine, there's room in this game for a dedicated support craft, but, this thing isn't it. To me, the Bloodmark just screams "CANNON FODDER" for Gunships, strike fighters, and other scouts. This craft will probably be relegated to flying close to Gunships and Bombers for protection. I just can't see how it'll be useful or how a dedicated pilot won't rip their hair out in frustration at the lack of speed. If you're going to be flying a ship that's going to be stuck to hugging asteroids, cliffs, and satellites, wouldn't it be better to just fly a bomber? After thoughts: I think it would be better to just forget about putting the emphasis on the support role here and just have it focus on versatility. It can already do things the Blackbolt and Sting can't do with the option to mount the EMP Missles, that alone gives this thing a dedicated role in anti-bomber combat. Give us the option to build it for combat, or for support. Throw in Barrel Roll over Power Dive, and give us thrusters. The Sting already has thrusters and a reactor.

About the Progenitor... I don't think anyone really knows what it was like for the Empire before that bunch of Imperials got together and started playing. They turned it around for us and really really improved moral. They're also a really nice bunch who give all of us "newbies" encouragement and suggestions on how to improve our game. The Republic still dominates most matches, so I can understand why someone would be irritated to see one of the small handful of good/competent Imperials players switching sides constantly. While I find the angry posts excessive, and totally uncalled for, I understand where they're coming from. It gets very frustrating constantly playing on the losing side all the time. The player in question, while a very good player, tends to play whichever side is winning more on a given day or whichever side is fielding most of it's aces. He doesn't deserve all the publicity he's getting here. I'm starting to regret even naming him as an ace. But what's done is done. Whatever anyone thinks about him, he's a one of the best Bomber Pilots. Also, before anyone says "GET GOOD" or whatever other worthless dribble, let me explain a little more about our server/faction's player base here: Most of the players on the Imperial teams, contribute nothing. Maybe about 4k damage, 0 kills, 0 assists, and 10 deaths. In most games during prime time, it's always a one sided slaughter in favor of the Republic. Sometimes we have a couple good Imperial Pilots who fight their hardest to try and even up the score, but in the end, they can't do anything if the rest of the team isn't supporting them. In my guild, I can't even get anyone interested in trying to play and get better at GSF, they just quickly lose a couple games for the daily on their alts for the free XP, if anything at all. It's so bad I'm looking to go to another server where, hopefully, the games are more even and exciting.

My last few games I've been up against a particularly annoying pilot who always manages to get a Sabotage probe up on me and blow me away with impunity. As a scout, how can I survive after being hit by a sabotage probe? Just power to shields and pray? Any suggestions would be welcome.

On the Progenitor (EU) Moganas is -THE- Republic Ace. This guy single handely wins games for the Republic and is the bane of all Imperials. I'm talking about 30-40 kills in a Flashfire, 80-100k damage done on average. He's an unstoppable monster. All those other names mentioned look like total beginners next to him. No other Republic name stands out like his. I've never won a game against him, or lost a game flying with him. Also for the list of our Imperial Aces. Leong He can top the score for damage and kills in ANY fighter. He's THE Imperial Ace. Others include: Akordia, Anded, Razorwire, Miriya, Mitra, Lindemann, Hettir, Miriell. Not sure what they all fly though. But for the Prog's top GSF players. Moganas and Leong. hands down. I also play on TOFN, but I haven't played enough games there to really see who the best of the best are. I'll add that soon.

I love my Blackbolt! I just wish the wings were set in the up position to make it look proper, but I guess you can't have nice things with BioWare.

I'm wondering this as well. Unlike BioWare I can feature my fighter in cool cut scenes whenever I want.

There's PvP, and then there's being singled out for constant ganking by a group of idiots. I notice this on my server, if someone in one of the bigger PvP guilds says "Keep killing this guy, he's a..." whatever colorful metaphor you like. They'll all jump on the band wagon and keep an eye out and gank them. Sadly, the phrase "Monkey see, monkey do" applies to many of SWTOR's players. Don't even get me started on all the Homophobic slurs I've been seeing in general chat, or all the trolling going on all over the place. I don't think the Customer Service department does enough to punish this type of behavior, I report the worst ones I see and they're still in game weeks later and talking trash. By allowing these sorts of people to continue playing, you set a precedent that this type behavior is acceptable. There's no acceptable defense for any sort of leniency towards these sorts of people, that's why WoW is in the dumps today, and why SWTOR could suffer when new games start to come out.