Lethality
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Posts posted by Lethality
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So the thing you're missing is, they only pay for the time they play.
Do you play WoW 8 hours per day every single day?
I'm guessing (even though I have my doubts that you even have an active sub to WoW) that you average 2-3 hours per night and you don't log in every night.
You will pay $15 per month, in China your time carries over. You only pay for what time you have played.
So say I play 3 nights per week, 3 hours per night which is more realistic than 8 hours per day everyday like you suggested. That's 9 hours per week. The card gives 66ish hours for almost $5. That's roughly 7 weeks of play time. I would have paid almost $30 for my subscription and they paid only $5.
Make sense?
In China, even if you only logged in for 20 minutes ever, your account would still be counted because you have remaining time on your card.
Here, you stop paying at the end of your month so you cannot be counted.
And every other MMO that can/does measure internationally in the far east would do/is doing the same thing! So the numbers are all correct and relative to industry reporting. i.e. Blizzard dominance.
Also, the average HHI in China, in 2010 at first glance appears to be about $10,000US. In the US, the average HHI was about $84,000US.
So their salaries are about 8 times less than ours, and their game payments are about 6 times less than hours. Seems to all line up.
And yes, I play WoW and have had an active subscription since day 1 on November 23, 2004.
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That is a very funny way to look at it.
The simply fact is unless you are playing 200-250 hours per month, it is cheaper to pay by the hour given the Chinese rate than maintain a US or Euro sub.
There aren't even 700 hours in a month, just FYI.
The average rate for paying is indeed cheaper... but some people have this impression of only "pennies" per month for Chinese players who have no subs, when in reality they're paying much close to US subscription rates even though they aren't subscribers.
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Lets talk statistics
WoW around 1 mil subs in US and 1 mil subs in Europe
around 7 mil subs in china and korea. But... there is a but.....
KOREA and CHINA subs aren't pay per month
They are pay by hour... this means that an account with 20min in it, but inactive for a year is considered active and looks good for statistics
Its a marketing trick.
You have no clue, those aren't the numbers, and that's not how it works at all.
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In china, a one-time use card which gives you 4000 minutes of playing time costs 30 RMB (4.66 USD), or about 0.45 RMB (7 cents US) per hour.
Do the math reguarding your play time.
In china, a one-time use card which gives you 4000 minutes of playing time costs 30 RMB (4.66 USD), or about 0.45 RMB (7 cents US) per hour.Do the math reguarding your play time.
Thank you.
Whereas a subscriber works out to just 2 cents US per hour.
While most players, even in China, don't play 24 hours a day... you could make the assumption of an 8 hour play day. If you add that up... (8*.07) * 30 = $16.80 cents US per month.
So, yeah.
Everyone else read this?
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WoW is a great financial success much like McDonald's. It doesn't mean their end product is the best or great.
No, it usually doesn't. But in WoW's case it definitely does. Consumers got that one right.
An example of failure would be Windows. There couldn't be a larger piece of rubbish OS out there, but the majority of consumers use it. They got that one wrong.
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You seem to be the only one debating, m8.
The point of bringing up China is because the account for well over half of WoW's population but only account for a fraction of a fraction of WoW's total income.
I guess we're debating because you're consistently wrong.
You realize that if Chinese players play as much as a monthly subscription would allow (when obviously they play much less, as we all do) they actually pay MORE per month than subscribers? You didin't realize that, did you?
And the argument is not about how much money is made... don't move the goal posts. It's squarely about how many PLAYERS there are... the fact is those are numbers TOR will never see.
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A common error I see is people claiming large number of users/customers/fans equals "great".
McDonalds - billions served - I'd hardly call their food great.
Bieber - millions of fans - I'd hardly call his music great.
WoW - millions of players - I'd hardly call the game great.
Except in WoW's case, the game is great. Game developers around the world - including those at BioWare - will tell you so. It's artistically sound, masterfully crafted, has mechanics that are second to none and a level of polish that is envied across the industry.
For players, it's all subjective. There is someone out there, maybe even reading this very thread, who is playing WoW while cranking Justin Beiber and chomping on a McDonald's cheeseburger. And to them - there couldn't be anything better.
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I didn't say free, I said they don't pay a monthly subscription.
They PAY TO PLAY THE GAME. Just like everyone else.
If you understand this, what are we debating?
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I'm not fabricating anything.
Chinese players do NOT pay a monthly subscription fee.
That is FACT and common knowledge.
No it's not a fact, and it's not common knowledge. Chinese players DO IN FACT PAY TO PLAY.
I suggest you provide a link - from Blizzard no less - that details how Chinese players play WoW for free.
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And a majority of those 'subs' are from China where they do not pay a sub.
But to your next point, I guess kids do love pandas and pokemon.
Oh, you mean "fun and variety".
And of course Chinese users pay to play... stop fabricating things.
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Actualy there are around 10.3 mil total. Trials of which under 20 is never ending, scrolls and accounts with subscriptions upon them. The number of those accounts that belong to multiple people are unknown as multiboxing is big on world of warcraft. There is also 1 million or so people who bought the annual pass of which we know not how many are still actually playing the game, obviously we would expect all but we cannot presume to know this.
Wow is also used in china as a prison gang activity which is an unknown number actually do this but this also impacts upon the numbers of active gamers playing wow.
Smacks of desperation.
The FACT is, there are still over 10 million PAYING customers. It could lose 8 million more and still be larger than TOR (not to mention every other MMO) in terms of subscribers.
You would do well for yourself to not try and diminish WoW with falsifications. It's a great game and you in fact have it to thank that TOR even exists.
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I think the ventrillo conversation was more entertaining then the actual game play to watch. Why do people play wow again?
Because it's better and more fun.
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This is the most anticipated MoP Panda Monk starting zone
as always, like pretty much everyone, the guy does not read quest nor delve in story.
and yes, the quest chain is indeed very linaer though the world is not instanced so i feels like there are more people around.
But, if this video was not commented, it will be very silent. I am not sure i could stomach it anymore.
The voice acting for every quest in TOR was very much over-done. For the "class quests" it makes sense, but it makes for significant tedium when that's only 20% of what you're doing, the rest is killing 10 rats or clicking 10 things, and you need a 4 minute conversation to find out what you have to do - with no other story attached to it.
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I must say that even though Wow dosnt have these class stories. They do HAVE MUCH BETTER NPC interacting and voiceacting.
Let me explain what I mean by that.
When you raid or do dungeons, there is this npcs voices and music that makes it much more interesting comparing to swtor raiding and dungeons. I mean it dosnt have to be more complex than Wow does it. I like wow cuz you can make YOUR OWN STORY AND IMAGINIATION. IN swtor you dont the game thinks for you and tells you what path you should go. Its bad and get very dull.
I would tend to agree. Blizzard demonstrates the story by action, using voice acting and very rarely true cut scenes. And as you said, the way the stories are told in TOR, it leaves little to the imagination. (Then again, I feel this way about all stories in video games that are literally "told" to me.)
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This is why I don't PvP in RPGs. I enjoy PvP online, but only in MMOs like WWII Online where skill is 80% of the win.
But you're comparing different styles of gameplay entirely.
Some people prefer the calculated, strategic approach to building their character and maximizing their output to give them the best chance. Twitch gamers usually can't hack it.
And vice versa... I suck at FPS PvP.
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I for one hope it never comes.
My reson is because people look at your toon and then decide if what you said has any merit rather then deciding if what they said had any.
As far as one place when we could look up any item in the game, boss drops etc.... I'm all for it.
It's a social structure... you have to deal with social pressures and judgements just as in any other.
That's the beauty of social games...
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Yup, China loves them some WoW.
With the way WoW servers are now, China must be the only people left playing.
Most of WoW's servers are dead. ZERO people in any of the leveling zones and only around 50 in Org/SW/IF at peak.
Do you play WoW? If not, how do you know the population of EVERY single server?
If so, well you seem to be quite hypocritical. Why would you still be playing WoW when TOR is perfect?
I have news for you (and this won't surprise you, because you were just using a defensive posture of fabrication) - WoW's server are far from dead. I play on a backwater server that was never in any of the progression races, it's not a PvP server.... it's literally bustling with people in all of the major Alliance cities. People are still doing dailies, and still running dungeons and raids.
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Neiche SOE games. lol minimal subs. lacking quality. No competition compared to a polished game.
Its your opinion that you feel there is no quality games out now which would hold up to wow if it got launched now.
I feel thats alittle deluded, but its your opinion!
I just look at modern warfare titles from the same production company. Shocking game. rehashed each year. but it still sells. Kids love it and will shout from the high hills its the best game ever. Technically. no. And neither is wow. But back then WoW it was which ment alot.
That is a silly, silly statement. They aren't niche or unpolished any more that TOR is today. The ratio of subscribers is the same because the MARKET IS BIGGER.
Ok, let's take your tact for a minute... WoW came out with a polished game and trounced the competition because "they weren't polished."
Are you saying TOR did the same thing to WoW? This is the whole point about "Blizzard gets it". Despite watching WoW evolve for 7 years, new games including TOR STILL DO NOT come out anywhere as closed to polished as WoW.
That, my friend, is perplexing, and why you see all the complaining.
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But yeh it certainly does look interesting. Will it be a TOR killer. I doubt it. TOR has a massive IP which will keep them afloat no matter what hits. I just feel the hype around GW2 will be the same as the hype around TOR. Vaild for a set amount of time. Then when launch day hits. People will realise marketitng hype is a ****
GW2 has marked, distinct differences - that they're willing to talk about, unlike BioWare was - that will either make the game crash and burn or have wild success.
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You are missing the point. Yes WoW was polished and had a great foundation. But there was no other that had this, everyone flocked to wow. the word got out and here we are. While in todays market we have many MMOs which are successful due to such things. We all have our own opinions and what we like. Each to there own. But back when WoW hit, nothing competed. Hence, its massive hold on the market. While in todays world. Competition would stop WoW doing this!
I've been following your argument the last page or so, and I have to say it's ridiculous.
There were concurrently running successful MMOs before WoW launched (EQ, AC, EvE, SWG, DAoC) and more... all with at least 100k+ subscribers). And since WoW, several MMOs that have come out have crashed and burned (Tabula Rasa, AoC, Vanguard, Warhammer) and there have been some that have had moderate success like the earlier games - LoTRO, DDO, DC, and more...)
The bottom line is the playing field is has it's ALWAYS been. The big difference is that WoW was such a masterfully crafted game it defined the genre as most people know (hence, the "standards" everyone talks about) and more importantly WoW actually EXPANDED the genre and brought more people into the idea of playing and subscribing to an MMO.
So the market is larger now... but the ratio of "successful" games? THe same as it always was.
Due to the quality of WoW, in every way, it would stomp out current competition if it came out today - because no one would be tired of it, it would be fresh and be mechanically better in every single way.
Not to mention, all of these other games have copied WoW in one way or another and couldn't even use that to their advantage after they had the benefit of watching WoW for years.
The only games that will compete with WoW for the "next-gen" are ones that break the mold and up the quality... one is a risk most aren't willing to take and the other most can't deliver. As has been proven by LoTRO, and now TOR, having a big name IP doesn't mean squat when it comes to retaining subscribers. The game has to be good.
GW2 has the next best shot.
And of course Titan will be breaking the mold completely... but success isn't guaranteed. But at least they're trying.
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It's not directly about the features, but more about the fundamental design choices.
For instance, why Fixed factions? My character is a BH, and has even pointedly told a Darth that she doesn't give a tinker's damn about the Empire, only her pay. It seems illogical then that the Republic would keep on sending soldiers to a messy death against Bounty Hunter Extreme rather than just buy her off.
It also rather smears in the face of Lore, like the developers have never heard of a Jedi falling to the dark side and joining up with a Galactic Empire. Hell, the first contemporary Sith Warriors were all Fallen Jedi.
Also, why the Raid or Die model? Even one of the devs said that a bunch of people whacking away at a single monster is nor heroic, and yet that's what we got.
Finally, on a deeper psychological level, why bandy to this notion of being the super-hero of the universe? I'm sure it works for some people, but I find it a bit...two-dimensional. It lacks any sort of real depth when you remove any form of adversity or struggle.
Now I'm not saying these are either good or bad. They just leave me scratching my head and asking why.
I agree, especially on the story part... I don't require being the hero of the galaxy to have fun.
It's so spoon-fed in this game and especially BW's single player games, it really panders to the lowest-common-denomenator.
The raid or die thing, it really feels to me like that wasn't the original intent for end game... but we'll never know.
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I feel much like you. A living fossil of the MMO industry. I would like TOR to work more to differentiate itself from WoW, not become more like it, but all indications of greed in the upper echelons don't have my hopes up.
People rag on me because I preferred SWG. Simple reason, it wasn't WoW, but that's a discussion for a different board.
Point is, though, I would be happy if TOR was not SWG2, as long as it also wasn't WoW2. I'd like to see this game evolve to the point it actually makes people use their grey matter in more than just story and quit trying to make mechanics so blatantly obvious. A small example would be color coding of gear names. I can see it in TOR being useful for orange gear, but that's it. The rest should be all the same so as to force players to actually read itemization and stats instead of gushing over the color of a piece of text.
There seems to be a miscomprehension here... it's not that we want TOR to become like WoW. But there are features TOR is missing which WoW standardized, and are now no-brainers to include in a AAA MMO. That's what, at least I mean, when I say "more like WoW"
For example... GW2 is nothing like WoW. But it has all of the "features" you expect to make online gameplay with friends more fun and manageable... even encouraged.
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Lol, go have fun with google for a bit. Come back and respond again.
Lol, I have some experience in the area...
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I have some concerns about the forthcoming Player Rankings. If by "player ranking" they mean posting the names of people with, say, the most kills or the most damage, this would dramatically increase the number of people using cheats so that they could be among the top. I've seen this happen in other games. In addition, it would tend to invite people to ignore objectives and instead get involved in useless side fights.
If, on the other hand, these rankings list something like who has played the most Warzones or who has been on the most winning teams, I would support something like that. But to emphasize individual stats (outside of team play) is an invitation to disaster.
"Cheats" cannot be used in MMORPGs like they can in other online games like FPS, at least without the developers noticing very quickly... no need to worry.
SWTOR Vs WoW: Blizzard gets it
in General Discussion
Posted
But that is completely subjective. "Better" isn't something you can quantify. And it also doesn't automatically mean that the business or services with fewer customers is "better" - as a matter of fact as is often the case, it is not.
For WoW, I think the consumers got it right this time. The best product does indeed have the most customers.
Few would debate that WoW is mechanically superior in gameplay, systems and otherwise...