Do you think story is really what MMO players want?

[Mannic]

dude you know so little about making money, really just think this - EvE online is a profitable highly developing project with no sub model and not much over 150k? or how much do they have now.

 

if fact, server + personnel costs are nothing compared to development/marketing costs or revenue when its millions of sold copies/subs. Also i am rather positive that if Lucas gets a really big percent from sales like you are pretending he does (which is *** pulled numbers, i think) he actually is an investor - noone gets 30 percent by only owning copyrights, i mean, noone will ever be that stupid to work for someone "for free" like that. Business doesnt work like that.

 

I do believe that with millions copies sold already, EA are very close to be near payback level, just because its budget cant be as big as a typical Hollywood weekender blockbuster, and its already 50-60 millions of dollars of sales, probably around 25-30 of pure revenue. that is a lot of money.

 

To OP - i wouldnt play an mmo without a proper story, only pure PvP oriented ones. i watch almost all cutscenes and wholeheartly enjoy this. WoW lost all appealing to me when i realized that the story i valued so much in the series ended for me with Arthas death.

 

*sigh*

 

1. Eve had a sub model for a long time. They generated $50 million per year with this sub model for years and years before they went to their current model.

 

2. Eve didn't cost anywhere near as much money to create as TOR did. Its initial development cost was likely in the area of 10% to 15% that of TOR.

 

3. Eve operates on ONE server for all its gamers. It does not have assets in two different regions in the U.S. and one in Europe.

 

4. Eve had already paid for its cost of development many times over before it went to its current pay model.

 

5. Eve is not paying 35% of its gross to the holder of an IP named George Lucas.

 

6. Eve has a fraction of the staff that TOR has.

 

7. Eve can be updated / expanded fairly cheaply because CCP doesn't have to pay voice-actors and script new cut-scenes any time they add new content.

 

8. The expectations for Eve were nowhere near the expectations for TOR. Most people didn't even know Eve existed when it was released.

 

9. Eve is one of exactly two subscriber-based MMO's that actually GREW subscribers after its initial year post-launch.

 

10. CCP is not part of a much larger publisher seeking to provide a solid return to investors who have nothing to do with the game itself, and concerned more about stock prices than game quality. Rather, CCP is majority owned by its own staff.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Mannic

[Gunryu]

12 flashpoints, 2 ops, dailies, whole planet pvp, class quests, ya that's not much in end game content in the least for a game that just launched. Just more than any other MMO in history that launched.

 

 

Yep, and buggy as hell like I said, heck I saw a thread in here talking about how just as you are zoning into one of the raids you get 1 shot by the boss!

[Yowfatto]

Well based off what I have seen of GW2 and the fact that it is F2P with purchasable novelty items? Probably a lot better than this game, as for D3.....it's a single player game with co-op capabilities that doesn't charge a subscription fee and has story with it, so again my guess? Probably better than this game as well.

 

F2p with purchasable novelty items, not really f2p is it? f2p MMO's, usually have a crap amount of subs because you have to pay out the wazoo to compete with others to have good stuff. All you do is whine about the game, don't like it don't play it.

[Gunryu]

F2p with purchasable novelty items, not really f2p is it? f2p MMO's, usually have a crap amount of subs because you have to pay out the wazoo to compete with others to have good stuff. All you do is whine about the game, don't like it don't play it.

 

 

It's free to play, I don't NEED to buy extra costumes if I don't wish to, and who says I don't like the game? Heck I like WoW and I sit and complain about things in that too, people who defend the game full force saying there is nothing wrong with it and it doesn't need to improve are what kills MMOs.

 

Oh forgot to mention several of those F2P games actually have more subs than WoW does.......ooops.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Gunryu

[SnoopyDoo]

12 flashpoints, 2 ops, dailies, whole planet pvp, class quests, ya that's not much in end game content in the least for a game that just launched. Just more than any other MMO in history that launched.

 

I would point out other MMOs have had about as much as this but it having 'most' doesn't justify saying it as 'lots'

 

World PvP doesn't exist right now if you havn't noticed and class quests/ dailies don't really count as 'end game.

 

That leaves 2 operation and a few high level flashpoints?

 

Ye lodes...

[GalacticKegger]

There is a distinct difference between explaining why something is not to one's liking, and stooping to flaming members of the community because of issues that have noting to do with the game. Perhaps some remediation in the forum's code of conduct "Introduction to the STAR WARS: The Old Republic Community" is in order. Or is asking for common sense to prevail pushing the wrong button? Edited January 2, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Yowfatto]

I would point out other MMOs have had about as much as this but it having 'most' doesn't justify saying it as 'lots'

 

World PvP doesn't exist right now if you havn't noticed and class quests/ dailies don't really count as 'end game.

 

That leaves 2 operation and a few high level flashpoints?

 

Ye lodes...

 

Doesn't exist right now. The game just launched, the vast majority of players are getting to 50, they don't have all day to play to get to 50. You don't seem to understand that. A lot of my friends are still on tatooine, taris, balmorra, nar shadda etc., they dont' have endless hours every day to get to 50.

[bloodmoon]

I for one love story !

[Yowfatto]

And this is how you know you are in the tiny minority of players for whom "once upon a time" instantly mesmerizes you.

 

And this is why the game will fail. Because it's written for you and not for MMO players.

 

Guess you didn't follow the game for years before it came out. Story being the biggest part of this game something you just now figured out?

[Mannic]

if fact, server + personnel costs are nothing compared to development/marketing costs or revenue when its millions of sold copies/subs.

 

And you say I know nothing about making money? Over the course of 5 years, the maintenance costs of the game will greatly exceed the initial development cost. WoW cost about $60 million to make, and 6 years after release Blizzard reported they had spent about $200 million maintaining the game. So are you sure you want to accuse me of not understanding business?

 

Also i am rather positive that if Lucas gets a really big percent from sales like you are pretending he does (which is *** pulled numbers, i think) he actually is an investor - noone gets 30 percent by only owning copyrights, i mean, noone will ever be that stupid to work for someone "for free" like that. Business doesnt work like that.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-30-lucasarts-to-take-around-35-percent-of-old-republic-revenue-report

 

Please stop forming opinions before you have ANY facts to back them up.

 

Oh, and an interesting little tidbit from that article: "Most MMOs require around 250,000 subscribers to cover the direct operating expense of the server farms. "

 

I do believe that with millions copies sold already, EA are very close to be near payback level, just because its budget cant be as big as a typical Hollywood weekender blockbuster, and its already 50-60 millions of dollars of sales, probably around 25-30 of pure revenue. that is a lot of money.

 

In order to have "millions of copies sold already" Bioware would have had to sell at least "2 million" units. But they have not. As of a week ago they were still bragging about "over 1 million players." That's not "millions of copies sold."

 

Please don't accuse other people of failing to understand something and then responding with an opinion that is totally backed up by NO facts.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Mannic

[Gunryu]

Doesn't exist right now. The game just launched, the vast majority of players are getting to 50, they don't have all day to play to get to 50. You don't seem to understand that. A lot of my friends are still on tatooine, taris, balmorra, nar shadda etc., they dont' have endless hours every day to get to 50.

 

Just think, it took longer to get to 60 in WoW than 50 in this game, so with one side of your face you are talking about aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall this wonderful end game then with the other side you are saying how "SWTOR just came out the vast majority of players don't have all day to play yadda yadda" so how is having "more end game" so great when there is nobody to see it yet "less end game" is so bad when it took even longer to get to max level?

[Mannic]

Guess you didn't follow the game for years before it came out. Story being the biggest part of this game something you just now figured out?

 

Story-based was always well known.

 

Story being the only thing that makes the game in any way unique was not something that was known until a few months before release, when people started suspecting that this was just a SPRPG with co-op. It has turned out to be even worse than feared, though.

[Cormey]

I can't speak for other gamers but story is very important to me. I played plenty of games in the 80's that lacked story and am ever so thankful that I have the choice to avoid them like the plague nowadays.

[Arodin]

The story is the only reason I'm here. If Bioware did not take that route with the game design, I simply would not have been interested. Too many MMORPGs already exist that offer the same old repetitive, soulless gameplay. To me SWTOR is something very different from other MMOs. If you don't really care about story, then I can see how the inclusion of dialogue and cutscenes may seem like a trivial change to you, but for someone who cares about story it makes a huge difference. I can't even compare SWTOR to Rift or WoW, it's like apples and oranges to me. And there is no going back. Any future MMO that wants my subscription will have to try to follow Bioware's example.

 

It's true that when I hit 50 and there is no more story for my character, I will be wanting more. Fortunately, Bioware anticipated this and gave each class a unique story. Yes, there will be repetition of content when I play a new character, but it's repetition that I can live with, and not NEARLY as much repetition as there is in other MMOs.

 

Personally, I see the typical "endgame" trappings in SWTOR as like a tacked-on side-game. I may dabble in it. I may get very involved in it eventually. I don't know. But I don't think "endgame" is the core of SWTOR. I think the core gameplay is the character stories. That's a new concept for MMOs, and I'm really happy to finally see something new in MMOs.

[cesmode]

I love the stories. I love the different gameplay that each class has to offer, vs the mundane "melee or caster" archetype.

 

I like the choices we must make, although I would rather just make choices for my class story and possibly some of the other more indepth stories, rather than every single quest.

 

Other than that, yes, the story is fantastic and I am glad they spent a lot of time on it.

[GalacticKegger]

Story-based was always well known.

 

Story being the only thing that makes the game in any way unique was not something that was known until a few months before release, when people started suspecting that this was just a SPRPG with co-op. It has turned out to be even worse than feared, though.

Worse than you feared perhaps. For many of us the game was as good as advertised. Funny thing about advertisements... some read and get the message while others read and only see what they want to see. The game is rich in story and won't get old unless it turns into WoW. WoW's success has come from conditioning, not creativity. I got unbrainwashed from the WoW way 2 years ago and am loving this game as a result. As an MMO player, this game is what I want. If that's ok with you... Edited January 2, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Cedia]

Well, to each his/her own, but I know I've been waiting for a story-based MMO since I started playing them, way back in '95 with The Realm.

 

So, this being BioWare and Star Wars, well... it's a dream come true.

 

Seriously, my only complaint is that twi'leks can't be all classes.

[BaronVonSteel]

I think quality story is important for the RPG aspect of MMORPG's. Therefore, I say yes. I have found myself more immersed in this games environment then any other MMO's that I've played, and I'm not even on an RPG server. If I wanted no story, no substance, simply grinding lvls in hours so I could stand around the main social hub waiting to que for the next round of purple pixels I'd play that other MMO.

[Shortwave]

tl;dr but to answer your title, no

 

What he wrote wasn't long or complex, and barring some abnormal psychological issues it can be read and absorbed in 5 minutes or less. You act as if the post was some long winded and eloquent James Joyce or John C. Calhoun writing.

 

Also, why bother to tell people you didn't read the post? Is it due to some Bart Simpson "underachiever and proud of it" mentality? Are you trying to act "cool," is "tl;dr" some sly insult, or are you really such a simpleton that 5 minutes worth of reading short-circuits your attention span?

 

In reality tl'dr should, especially in your case, be modified to ts;dr, too stupid; didn't read.

 

Please don't breed or vote... ever.

[Letsplayrift]

I couldn't stand leveling an alt

 

The story was cool but it wasn't worth the miles of hallway and all the side quests that I didn't care about

 

 

Can't they just sell email subscriptions where they email you a chapter every week, that way they can set the pacing without making me run down a hallway

[Ki_Draken_Magus]

I don't remember any Bioware Dev interview where they stated the goal of SWTOR was to "beat" WoW.

 

It is written, "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within."

[montanabrand]

story is very important to me. As an example, I hate doing quests on old mmo's because it was simply text from some npc telling me to go to the other end of the map and click my heels 3 times then come back. Boring and mundane.

 

With this voice-over questing I actually care about the story and get into the quest and certainly my character. Everyone in my guild knows from past mmo's that I simply despise the old way of questing. For me to like questing now is amazing, and kudo's to Bioware.

 

On another note, for the love of God if you don't like this game then LEAVE! This game will be around for years to come and will be successful, get used to it.

[Mannic]

story is very important to me. As an example, I hate doing quests on old mmo's because it was simply text from some npc telling me to go to the other end of the map and click my heels 3 times then come back. Boring and mundane.

 

With this voice-over questing I actually care about the story and get into the quest and certainly my character. Everyone in my guild knows from past mmo's that I simply despise the old way of questing. For me to like questing now is amazing, and kudo's to Bioware.

 

On another note, for the love of God if you don't like this game then LEAVE! This game will be around for years to come and will be successful, get used to it.

 

You do understand that a lot of people are going to leave, right?

 

And when you see it happen, you're not going to be quite as happy about it as you think. This game may be around for years, but it will be much better supported if people other than the tiny minority of story-whores stick around to play it.

 

In the end, you guys are going to end up like the currect SWG faithful who, years later, insist their game was successful despite being in a niche of players who stuck around long enough to learn to love it, while the rest of the games community laughs at their delusions.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Mannic

[TimboFisher]

Atmosphere, story, and challenge are the only things that make a game good without story you are just pressing keys in an arranged order.

[Myrmedus]

Yes, it's very important to me...I simply didn't realise how important it was until an MMO was released that actually had story in it.

 

WoW now feels completely barren by comparison...it's so soulless and feels like nothing but number crunching. in TOR my character feels like a character, as do the NPCs I interact with, whereas in WoW my character simply feels like a walking paper doll hitting targets shaped like humans or dragons. I think story has added a whole new dimension to the MMO genre which elevates it, actually, because my main complaint of MMOs was that their immersion was hugely lacking.

 

Also, the person or people claiming this is a sub-par WoW clone with story make me laugh. People are comparing this game, a mere fortnight after its launch, to WoW after 6+ years of refinement and development: yeah, that sounds like a fair comparison! Compare like for like: this game compared to WoW a fortnight after its launch is immense. Obviously, the game will be refined, issues will be addressed etc. and I get the feeling alot of players whining on these forums have never played an MMO on its initial release: let me tell you, WoW was no different, people were one/two-shotting each other all over the place and there wasn't even a semblance of balance in the game with bugs everywhere. The issues were so big that many skills were entirely REMOVED from classes (like Crusader Strike for Paladins which didn't reappear until TBC).

 

Honestly, that ridiculous comment is like saying WoW was a sub-par EQ2 clone when it was released and look what happens there. The sheer fact that TOR at initial release has many things over on WoW 6+ years after its release is a ringing endorsement IMO.

 

Idiots.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Myrmedus