I want STORY AND SANDBOX

[Debiru]

well i dissagre whit the OP.

 

I see no where a sandbox mmo can be any good at all.

 

What the point of crating a area where there is nothing, empty space so you can look at shrubberys and take lonver to get from A to B?

 

 

i think what most ppl miss from sandbox MMOs is not the actualy vast unussed and empty areas, its how the game felt at the time, either beeing a first game I.E rose tinted glasses.

 

either way, ppl will complain either way, my self just dont see the logic behind empty open area = good game.

 

 

Not like SWTOR is cramped, as you progress world opens up and feel much much larger, and the zones the mself is bigger than any other MMO i have ENJOYED playing i.e WoW Rift war lotro.

 

And if there is a road to the questing area or there is not, what the heck is the diffrence?

[Yfelsung]

Size has nothing to do whit gravity.

 

Size doesn't...

 

But mass does.

 

The more mass, the higher the gravity.

 

That's why Jupiter only has about 4 times our gravity. It's much larger, but being mostly gaseous it's not as heavy as Earth would be if it were the same size.

[Kabloosh]

You sir need to find a good Minecraft RP server.

[Kabloosh]

Size doesn't...

 

But mass does.

 

The more mass, the higher the gravity.

 

That's why Jupiter only has about 4 times our gravity. It's much larger, but being mostly gaseous it's not as heavy as Earth would be if it were the same size.

 

I googled that and apparently its only actually 2.58 times Earth's because while Jupiter has 318 times the mass of the Earth all that mass is spread out.

[traft]

The benefit of creating sandbox tools is that players can create their own content rather than be totally reliant on the developer to keep throwing new things at them regularly.

 

It is why EVE has done well as a sandbox mmo despite their being dubious content additions over the last few years.

 

The problem is these sandbox mmos have a much more severe player turn-over than your cookie cutter mmo, a lot of people try a game like EVE get butchered in the first week and are gone. While the dream for a great sandbox mmo is there for a lot of people, the power is almost always abused in sandbox mmos and the environment typically becomes more hostile to new players which hurts the developer's ability to retain them as customers.

 

The average lifespan of a player in an MMO is 2 years, I would imagine in a sandbox environment that figure would be significantly lower.

 

I didn't appreciate SWG much when it was released, largely because very few things worked properly, but I think a lot of people appreciate what they tried to do now a lot more than they did at the time. SWG was a mmo well before it's time and they didn't have the resources to pull it off and the technology of the era was more limited.

 

SWTOR really takes the exploration out of the picture, while the areas you quest in are quite vast, they are all quite compact and there is a lot of stuff crammed into the one area, for a game galaxy wide it does feel very cramped.

 

If you merged the best elements of SWTOR with the best concepts of SWG you would come out with a pretty good MMO but that isn't going to happen, EA/Bioware is following the WoW model and unless it is a cosmic failure I don't see them changing from that path.

[SneakyChicken]

I want to feel both the vastness and emptiness of the dune sea on tatooine, I want the long distances to be boring so much I need transport to traverse the planet. I want sandstorms, wildlife and krayt dragons.

 

I want little points of interest in the middle of nowhere waiting to be discovered, I want to explore!

 

I want to join a guild and go to war with another guild, I want to be able to arrange to meet the other guild any time and place and not play a multiplayer side game.

Sounds a lot like ShadowBane. And yes, I miss it.

 

I want a real world economy that isnt perfectly balanced, I want space for players to create their own stories and content.

 

...I want Star Wars The Old Republic and Star Wars Galaxies...

 

...yes I'm that greedy, I want both awesome story telling and sky-high production values, but I also want to feel immersed into a living breathing world of player economies, vast spaces and yes sandbox elements.

 

Don't shoot me for saying what I want

So you want a story..... but you want to not be tied down to a set path. Looked at a dictionary and found this.

Story: A narration of an incident or a series of events or an example of these that is or may be narrated, as an anecdote, joke, etc.

 

You want a game that has awesome story telling, but to not have to be tied down by the story that they are trying to tell. You want a great overarching plot, while at the same time do something that isn't according to that plot.

 

Oh no, I've gone cross-eyed. -Austin Powers

[will-sparrowWill]

Before this game came out nobody gave a **** about story or quest lore when they were in an MMO (only the hardcore fans or people who enjoy the story telling aspect), I'd say 80-90% of people who play mmos never read the quest text or care why they need to kill 10 boars or what ever else the quest calls for.

 

Bioware took a huge step in thinking that an MMO needs a strong story line and interesting quests. Only time will tell if they made the right call, but one thing they didn't make the right call on was the way this game is played. This game should NOT be called an MMO.

 

MMO to me means playing in a huge world with hundreds or thousands of other players at the same time. Not being confined to an INSTANCED area with 200 people tops running around the same planet you are. hamster in a cage is a perfect explanation of what this game feels like. There is no real freedom in this game. Everyone plays along a set path. Sure you can veer off and do something else for awhile, but either way you have to do your main storyline. The same storyline everyone else in the game gets which makes the whole CREATE YOUR OWN STORY! ********. That's why story and questing isn't the main focus of most MMO's. Functionality and things to do are. that is what this game lacks.

 

Nar Shaddaa is a great example of a great delusion this game plays. You have this grand city that would make any starwars fan giddy in the hopes of exploring this amazing moon, but exploration doesn't exist in this game. All those lights and buildings you see are nothing more than a backdrop. You cannot go there or do anything interesting. Hell there are casinos everywhere on Nar Shaddaa, heres a cool simple idea... How about making some of those slot machines and card tables useable? Small simple things help add depth to a world where there is none. Bioware doesn't understand the basics of how to make an MMO world come alive. And that's pretty sad.

 

This game isn't an MMO, its Kotor3 with co-op online play.

[Tinasa]

I agree with the OP. The first game to get this right is going to re-write the history books and make WoW a memory. It's unfortunate the people at BioWare didn't pick up on this and add more open/sandbox type options and areas into the game. The game is incredible, but I'm worried it lacks enough to keep people interested.

 

It's particularly baffling when you watch the BioWare video and listen to how concerned they were to create this as the next step in Role Playing games for computers. Yet, they seem to have spent all the time focused on holding your hand through a terrific story and then leave you with a character and nothing to do with it. This is exactly what you don't want to do with a Role play game. Give us a living breathing world that our characters can live in, even when not in cinematics.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Tinasa

[kottonmouth]

@Shadysketchy

Why are you still here?

[Yfelsung]

I googled that and apparently its only actually 2.58 times Earth's because while Jupiter has 318 times the mass of the Earth all that mass is spread out.

 

I pulled the 4 times number out of my memories of elementary school, but considering I went to Catholic school I should take any science knowledge they imparted with a grain of salt.

[WickedDjinn]

You can't have a plot in a sand box, too different things.

 

But if you want a space sandbox go play Eve.

 

Of course EvE also stands as testament to the fact that the average gamer would run screaming from a true sandbox environment once they realize what that means. Eve chews them up and spits them out.

[kottonmouth]

I agree with the OP. The first game to get this right is going to re-write the history books and make WoW a memory. It's unfortunate the people at BioWare didn't pick up on this and add more open/sandbox type options and areas into the game. The game is incredible, but I'm worried it lacks enough to keep people interested.

 

It's particularly baffling when you watch the BioWare video and listen to how concerned they were to create this as the next step in Role Playing games for computers. Yet, they seem to have spent all the time focused on holding your hand through a terrific story and then leave you with a character and nothing to do with it. This is exactly what you don't want to do with a Role play game. Give us a living breathing world that our characters can live in, even when not in cinematics.

 

Doesn't the game get open world after lvl 40? Im lvl 38 and ive realized since my mid 30's zones have gotten massive. LOTS of bike riding from quest to quest.

[WickedDjinn]

And to the morons who apparently have nothing to do except bash a game you claim is a disappointment... Why aren't you off playing one of those so called real mmos.

[will-sparrowWill]

You can't have a plot in a sand box, too different things.

 

But if you want a space sandbox go play Eve.

 

Of course EvE also stands as testament to the fact that the average gamer would run screaming from a true sandbox environment once they realize what that means. Eve chews them up and spits them out.

 

thats because eve really isn't a true sandbox game. There's only 3 things you can do in eve. Fight, craft/trader, mine. And all of them are boring. They are starting to understand where they are falling short and are slowly implementing a real world feel to the game where you can leave your ship. Point is there isn't much you can do in that game and thats why it isn't a true sandbox game. On paper it is, but once you play it you realize that there really is no real depth to the game.

[Yfelsung]

thats because eve really isn't a true sandbox game. There's only 3 things you can do in eve. Fight, craft/trader, mine. And all of them are boring. They are starting to understand where they are falling short and are slowly implementing a real world feel to the game where you can leave your ship. Point is there isn't much you can do in that game and thats why it isn't a true sandbox game. On paper it is, but once you play it you realize that there really is no real depth to the game.

 

You must be playing EvE wrong, because that is the deepest MMO ever made. I don't even play it myself as I find the combat a little bland, but no other game can you play like EvE.

 

You can play EvE as a trader, or a combat guy, or a pirate, or a loan shark, or almost anything else you can possibly think of.

 

It is the very definition of sandbox. You can do whatever you want.

 

You can even scam players and it's not against the rules because CCP have a very hands off approach. They allow the players to run the universe.

 

Getting out of your ship has nothing to do with the definition of sandbox.

 

A sandbox is just a game with no defined purpose. That describes EvE perfectly.

[Tharrn]

Where EVE shines is interaction and player driven content. All 3rd person MMOs I know about are themepark. Doesn't mean they are bad. It's just that the developers have to constantly listen to the hardcore whiners that they need more content two days after every expansion and even less hardcore players often wonder what the heck they should do in between updates as PvP is usually lackluster.

 

Player driven content keeps people busy longer.

[Xaehl]

The only game coming out that will be a true sandbox is The Secret World.

[Lodestar]

I miss my cantina and my BM/Smuggler. The ability to watch player cities rise and fall.

 

I don't know if we'll ever get another decent sandbox MMO ever again... but in SWG's... defense? They didn't fix things until much much much too late... and even then they left a player base scorned.

 

I've noticed that too many MMOs are trying to attact the WOW crowd instead of trying to create a new market... and the first MMO to make that mistake was SWG with NGE.

 

/sigh

 

This.

 

We already have WoW. Every WoW clone fails because who wants another WoW, when they already have it.

 

Strangely though, I have been folllowing TSW. And it is staggering to see the flipside of this. You would be amazed at how many people, actually want less innovative feratures, and something like WoW. The trick is to strike a balance, between innovation, and "convention".

 

Some people would throw out popular features just because. Some want to force their idea of a good game on others. The reality is your trying to get the largest share you can. And the more "focused" and specific, you get, the less dedicated followers you will have.

 

Edit

 

The only game coming out that will be a true sandbox is The Secret World.

 

SAY WHAT!!?! Where on earth did you get this information? I been flowing TSW since Feb 2008. It is not going to be anything like a true sandbox, this has been known for some time now. Nor is it a PvP centric game either.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Lodestar

[Yfelsung]

The problem is, people ask for a sandbox, then you gank their character and loot all their gear and suddenly they're naked and now they don't want a sandbox game.

 

Or they're playing Darkfall trying to get from one end of the world to the other and in the second hour of that run some well geared guy RUNS YOU DOWN ON A GIANT TIGER AND SLAUGHTERS YOU AND STEALS ALL YOUR STUFF AND SENDS YOU BACK TO THE STARTING AREA WHERE YOU BOUND! *breathes*

 

And, unlike someone like me, they get frustrated.

 

People want a sandbox but then they want all these kind-glove features like no-full loot and stuff.

 

It's like people want to be "hardcore", but hardcore means permadeath and full loot, so they want to change the definition of hardcore to fit their playstyle.

 

People think they want something, but they don't actually want it.

[WickedDjinn]

This.

 

We already have WoW. Every WoW clone fails because who wants another WoW, when they already have it.

 

Strangely though, I have been folllowing TSW. And it is staggering to see the flipside of this. You would be amazed at how many people, actually want less innovative feratures, and something like WoW. The trick is to strike a balance, between innovation, and "convention".

 

Some people would throw out popular features just because. Some want to force their idea of a good game on others. The reality is your trying to get the largest share you can. And the more "focused" and specific, you get, the less dedicated followers you will have.

 

This is faulty reasoning. Nothing ever has to be innovative to be successful and most attempts at innovation crash and burn.

[WickedDjinn]

Where EVE shines is interaction and player driven content. All 3rd person MMOs I know about are themepark. Doesn't mean they are bad. It's just that the developers have to constantly listen to the hardcore whiners that they need more content two days after every expansion and even less hardcore players often wonder what the heck they should do in between updates as PvP is usually lackluster.

 

Player driven content keeps people busy longer.

 

Yes. A Smaller number of people busy longer.

 

Most gamers can't handle a true sandbox. There is a reason why eve is not more popular.

[Lodestar]

This is faulty reasoning. Nothing ever has to be innovative to be successful and most attempts at innovation crash and burn.

 

Make innacurate sweeping statements much?

 

And as for nobody givng a damn about story or Lore. Is that poster serious? Why would you even choose Star Wars if your not interested in that? I know plenty who would be bored witkless of a game that had no story or lore. Me for one.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Lodestar

[WickedDjinn]

Make innacurate sweeping statements much?

 

And as for nobody givng a damn about story or Lore. Is that poster serious? Why would you even choose Star Wars if your not interested in that? I know plenty who would be bored witkless of a game that had no story or lore. Me for one.

 

It was accurate, as demonstrated by the whole of human history. Every once on a blue moon something innovative and successful strikes like a bolt if lighting, but its the exception by far. And the idea that we need to be actively looking for innovation is flat out nonsense.

[Lodestar]

It was accurate, as demonstrated by the whole of human history. Every once on a blue moon something innovative and successful strikes like a bolt if lighting, but its the exception by far. And the idea that we need to be actively looking for innovation is flat out nonsense.

 

Bah sorry. Not getting into a cycnism debate on forums no more. And deal with someone who just wants to be right all the time. Been there too many times before. It gets no where. You can have your beleifs, don;t expect me to follow them.

[JustTed]

I want a pony.