When people ask for "target of target" to be implemented, is this what they mean?

[Systam]

i enjoy ToT when people are swapping fast for CC and damage and such as a healer its easy(more of a focus target window if anything is what i love) tot also is nice for knowing cast time. Lots of bosses have subtle animations for Spells and unless the boss is just tank and spank if im healing and i need to cc i can do so with much less hassle switching back and forth.

 

Of course EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING in WoW is easy and Swtor is supposed to be the hardcore mmo!(no grind on anything yeah hardcore rofl) so this mmo won't go anywhere when the community doesn't want anything added that could in any possible way be something that was in wow.Its sad but if its what they want let them do it. Just don't forget EA has a history for killing mmos even when they're doing OK still because its not doing AMAZING.

[Herdsnerfs]

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. Its a tiny addition. Calm down. Move on.

 

No, I'm not. This is exactly how it happened with WoW. Small additions. Each one dumbed the game down further. In 5 years, I don't want this game to be another snoozefest, boring, ezmode title. Each time a new feature is asked for, the "want this to be ezmode" crowd asks for another. And another. Targetting. Then ease of tanking. Then AOE. Then healing. And a dozen other "helpful" changes, that causes the game to play itself.

[Thrage]

Target of target needs to be a thing.

[aznthecapn]

No, I'm not. This is exactly how it happened with WoW. Small additions. Each one dumbed the game down further. In 5 years, I don't want this game to be another snoozefest, boring, ezmode title. Each time a new feature is asked for, the "want this to be ezmode" crowd asks for another. And another. Targetting. Then ease of tanking. Then AOE. Then healing. And a dozen other "helpful" changes, that causes the game to play itself.

 

Yes, you are. ToT doesn't do any of these things.

 

Don't assume everything is a slippery slope. I'm perfectly fine without addons or macros or boss mods. I just want something that tells me who my target is targeting. Toss in UI adjustments that don't require third party software and I'm good to go. Most people would be. Pick your battles buddy. If you see someone asking for what you're implying, go get 'em. This isn't one of those things.

[kalibri]

What people need to understand is that missing basic features like ToT and threat displays will ultimately lead to encounters based off simple mechanics, easy to defeat, in one word BORING.

 

Yes, its true, they can't make the encounters fun and challenging if they don't implement these BASIC features in the game.

 

More than that, no competitive PVP will ever arise without them, at the moment there is no way (other than vent/teamspeak/mumble/focus frame) to keep an eye on what an enemy is doing to your partners (as a healer mostly).

 

So, best to rethink your stance versus these, again, BASIC features.

[Nanfoodle]

DPS and Tank classes need a graphical Target of Target. Healers need Dual Targeting for CC rotation and to be able to have fun in PvP and do their job at the same time. Its really sad BW has not added this. This was asked for by beta players with a passion in every build we got. Was totally ignored.

[Forkrul]

No, I'm not. This is exactly how it happened with WoW. Small additions. Each one dumbed the game down further. In 5 years, I don't want this game to be another snoozefest, boring, ezmode title. Each time a new feature is asked for, the "want this to be ezmode" crowd asks for another. And another. Targetting. Then ease of tanking. Then AOE. Then healing. And a dozen other "helpful" changes, that causes the game to play itself.

Riiiight, because having ToT makes the game play itself, right? I guess having TWO different targets (one friendly and one enemy with ToT for when you did not have a friendly target) in WAR made that game play itself, then?

 

ToT is a good addition not just to PvE but PvP as well and there is no reason why it should not be added except for some whiners who feel that it cheapens their experience. And they can always choose to not use it if they feel that they are more "skilled" if they don't.

[Sacriversum]

I would like to point out just one thing: SWTOR, while largely a PvE game, does also offer PvP. And what having "target of target" in PvP does, is it makes DPS/focus fire trains a tactic so easy to pull off, it nullifies any skill involved in actually playing tactically. Ergo, Warhammer Online, a PvP-focused game, didn't have it, but LOTRO, for example, did. Can't remember if DAoC had it, but I bet it did not.

 

And, of course, there is a whole "lack of ToT makes for a more interesting gameplay" argument, which I wholeheartedly buy. The game's easy enough, so spare us junk features like that. And please, no macros.

 

P.S. Edit for a point above I missed: DPS trains in PvP are not "fun." For a victim dying in 2 seconds flat isn't fun. And for an attacker, a member of a premade employing said tactic, it usually involves mashing several dps buttons to focus fire the target. No positioning, no cc necessary. Of course, if you do find that fun, suit yourself. I hope that most don't and Bioware goes with the majority.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Sacriversum

[Audix]

Target of Target should not make you a better tank, i dont see how it will help you anyway.

 

im Shadow Jedi and i have no issues tanking multiple or single mobs, ToT has no effect on someones tanking abilities...

[Wazooty]

It shouldn't. Its a stupid common feature.

 

All you're telling us is that you've NEVER played seriously at max level content in an MMO before, PVE or PVP.

 

Bug off.

[Forkrul]

I would like to point out just one thing: SWTOR, while largely a PvE game, does also offer PvP. And what having "target of target" in PvP does, is it makes DPS/focus fire trains a tactic so easy to pull off, it nullifies any skill involved in actually playing tactically. Ergo, Warhammer Online, a PvP-focused game, didn't have it, but LOTRO, for example, did. Can't remember if DAoC had it, but I bet it did not.

 

And, of course, there is a whole "lack of ToT makes for a more interesting gameplay" argument, which I wholeheartedly buy. The game's easy enough, so spare us junk features like that. And please, no macros.

 

P.S. Edit for a point above I missed: DPS trains in PvP are not "fun." For a victim dying in 2 seconds flat isn't fun. And for an attacker, a member of a premade employing said tactic, it usually involves mashing several dps buttons to focus fire the target. No positioning, no cc necessary. Of course, if you do find that fun, suit yourself. I hope that most don't and Bioware goes with the majority.

Sure WAR had it, and they had it even easier by being able to designate Main Assist and have addons that would autoswap your target to whoever that addon had marked if you couldn't be bothered to press 1 button to swap target to the new assist target. It just wasn't that used in ORvR because bombing was king.

[Wazooty]

Target of Target should not make you a better tank, i dont see how it will help you anyway.

 

im Shadow Jedi and i have no issues tanking multiple or single mobs, ToT has no effect on someones tanking abilities...

 

There's the proof. If this one guys has no problems tanking his low level groups, then it must not be needed.

 

Please go try to raid or pvp seriously in high end raids/content for a couple months and say it wound't be awesome to have target of target.

[aznthecapn]

I would like to point out just one thing: SWTOR, while largely a PvE game, does also offer PvP. And what having "target of target" in PvP does, is it makes DPS/focus fire trains a tactic so easy to pull off, it nullifies any skill involved in actually playing tactically. Ergo, Warhammer Online, a PvP-focused game, didn't have it, but LOTRO, for example, did. Can't remember if DAoC had it, but I bet it did not.

 

Why are so many people basing their counter argument to this topic on wholly inaccurate staement? Having ToT does not play ANYTHING for you. PvP, PvE - none of it. If you could somehow DPS or heal your ToT then yes, I can see that being an issue. But merely displaying this information does not do that! You're still required to change targets or follow someone else's assist. Yes, this makes THAT easier but that's not a display of being a better player! Tactical PvP is about knowing what skills to use in a given situation.

 

If you're going to complain about tactical PvP play, complain about the lack of diminishing returns and that Resolve does not acknowledge different forms of CC. A stun is equal to an incapacitate is equal to a slow. Yes, the add on in different quantities but the DR system in WoW is FAR superior and allows for vastly increase tactical decision making.

 

Speaking of WoW, and in no way does this statement imply that game is better in all possible ways, it is however globally acknowledged as a very strong game in PvP and it uses a ToT window.

 

And, of course, there is a whole "lack of ToT makes for a more interesting gameplay" argument, which I wholeheartedly buy. The game's easy enough, so spare us junk features like that. And please, no macros.

 

It doesn't make gameplay more interesting, it makes it more tedious for people like healers and tanks. Tell you what, let's let it be an option in the preferences menu and you can turn it off.

Edited January 1, 2012 by aznthecapn

[Sacriversum]

What people need to understand is that missing basic features like ToT and threat displays will ultimately lead to encounters based off simple mechanics, easy to defeat, in one word BORING.

 

Yes, its true, they can't make the encounters fun and challenging if they don't implement these BASIC features in the game.

 

More than that, no competitive PVP will ever arise without them, at the moment there is no way (other than vent/teamspeak/mumble/focus frame) to keep an eye on what an enemy is doing to your partners (as a healer mostly).

 

So, best to rethink your stance versus these, again, BASIC features.

 

A PvP premade without Vent or Teamspeak? Interesting concept. Please more premades like that!

[Audix]

There's the proof. If this one guys has no problems tanking his low level groups, then it must not be needed.

 

Please go try to raid or pvp seriously in high end raids/content for a couple months and say it wound't be awesome to have target of target.

 

ToT will not and will Never improve your Tanking abilities, yes i have PvP/Raid in other games, ToT have not improved my skills on tanking, if your Tanking in SWTOR you should be using the most Agro /Threat skills all the time, if your doing it right you shouldnt have any issues hold threat and tanking

[Sacriversum]

Why are so many people basing their counter argument to this topic on wholly inaccurate staement? Having ToT does not play ANYTHING for you. PvP, PvE - none of it. If you could somehow DPS or heal your ToT then yes, I can see that being an issue. But merely displaying this information does not do that! You're still required to change targets or follow someone else's assist. Yes, this makes THAT easier but that's not a display of being a better player! Tactical PvP is about knowing what skills to use in a given situation.

 

If you're going to complain about tactical PvP play, complain about the lack of diminishing returns and that Resolve does not acknowledge different forms of CC. A stun is equal to an incapacitate is equal to a slow. Yes, the add on in different quantities but the DR system in WoW is FAR superior and allows for vastly increase tactical decision making.

 

Speaking of WoW, and in no way does this statement imply that game is better in all possible ways, it is however globally acknowledged as a very strong game in PvP and it uses a ToT window.

 

 

 

It doesn't make gameplay more interesting, it makes it more tedious for people like healers and tanks. Tell you what, let's let it be an option in the preferences menu and you can turn it off.

 

Your tactical PvP skills will be nullified by ToT - not because it does anything specific: it merely makes DPS trains the easiest and the most viable tactic out there. And people go with easy and viable. Human nature really. In short: if you are a skilled PvP player - and you do sound like you know a bit about it - you will still die easily, skill or no skill, when such an easy tactic is employed against you. To each his own I guess. Been a mmo player for a long time and I certainly do not miss it.

[aznthecapn]

ToT will not and will Never improve your Tanking abilities, yes i have PvP/Raid in other games, ToT have not improved my skills on tanking, if your Tanking in SWTOR you should be using the most Agro /Threat skills all the time, if your doing it right you shouldnt have any issues hold threat and tanking

 

I don't believe anyone supporting ToT is implying it improves their tanking. Its a common display feature in many games like this and it does improve your information during the fight. The fact is, there are going to be mechanics that require you to know who is being attacked and react somehow. There are going to be times during this when it can be difficult to find out who that person is. ToT improves your ability to discern this information.

 

Just because you haven't experienced a situation where its needed or helpful doesn't mean one does not exist.

[Sacriversum]

Sure WAR had it, and they had it even easier by being able to designate Main Assist and have addons that would autoswap your target to whoever that addon had marked if you couldn't be bothered to press 1 button to swap target to the new assist target. It just wasn't that used in ORvR because bombing was king.

 

Yes, hope no addons of that sort will be available in SWTOR. Vanilla WAR did not have it.

[aznthecapn]

Your tactical PvP skills will be nullified by ToT - not because it does anything specific: it merely makes DPS trains the easiest and the most viable tactic out there. And people go with easy and viable. Human nature really. In short: if you are a skilled PvP player - and you do sound like you know a bit about it - you will still die easily, skill or no skill, when such an easy tactic is employed against you. To each his own I guess. Been a mmo player for a long time and I certainly do not miss it.

 

It generally depends on the PvP. In arena in WoW, I've rarely found games where there are enough DPS on their side and not enough healers on my side that I go down that quickly. It does happen in larger games like RBGs on occasion, but PUG PvP is rarely coordinated enough to execute a blitz train. If they do, they got lucky and all targeted the same person!

 

I can see the desire to not use it but, having played these games for a while myself, I'm noticing more and more cases where I do miss having it. I fully support it being an option you can toggle.

[Audix]

I don't believe anyone supporting ToT is implying it improves their tanking. Its a common display feature in many games like this and it does improve your information during the fight. The fact is, there are going to be mechanics that require you to know who is being attacked and react somehow. There are going to be times during this when it can be difficult to find out who that person is. ToT improves your ability to discern this information.

 

Just because you haven't experienced a situation where its needed or helpful doesn't mean one does not exist.

 

Or you could just look at your Riad UI and see who is taking dmg.... its that simple

[aznthecapn]

Or you could just look at your Riad UI and see who is taking dmg.... its that simple

 

And if the ability doesn't involve taking damage? Or if everyone is taking damage from an AoE effect and you can't see who is taking the damage from the boss? Or if a melee pulled aggro and used some immunity/damage reduction skill and you can't tell?

 

Like I said, there are many reasons (more than I listed) why this is a useful option and I'm all for having be an option that can be turned off for those people, like you, who prefer not to use it.

[Forkrul]

Or you could just look at your Riad UI and see who is taking dmg.... its that simple

 

Yeah that is going to work against a channeled ability that ticks every second for 30%-50% of your health or you need to shield a person to avoid a oneshot (random examples from other games)

[Wazooty]

ToT will not and will Never improve your Tanking abilities, yes i have PvP/Raid in other games, ToT have not improved my skills on tanking, if your Tanking in SWTOR you should be using the most Agro /Threat skills all the time, if your doing it right you shouldnt have any issues hold threat and tanking

 

Tanks aren't the only people in the game.

 

But clearly we should deny everyone something like that because tanks dont really need it.

[Audix]

And if the ability doesn't involve taking damage? Or if everyone is taking damage from an AoE effect and you can't see who is taking the damage from the boss? Or if a melee pulled aggro and used some immunity/damage reduction skill and you can't tell?

 

Like I said, there are many reasons (more than I listed) why this is a useful option and I'm all for having be an option that can be turned off for those people, like you, who prefer not to use it.

 

and ToT will help you if the boss is doing AoE... doubtful, or even if the Boss does a skill that has 2-3 second dealy on someone, ToT wont help

[Wazooty]

Or you could just look at your Riad UI and see who is taking dmg.... its that simple

 

Here's proof you've never done anything "high end".

 

Half the time in high end PVE, there is no "taking dmg", there is alive or dead because the mobs 1 shot anyone who isn't a tank.

 

Also, sometimes you need to target a very specific person that the mob is targeting BEFORE the mob reaches them. When 5 casters are standing near each other, it's impossible to see which one it's targeting.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Wazooty