Why does everyone hate the prequals????

[LordMerrick]

You are missing the bigger picture by belaboring minor points, ....... Of course the plot can be figured out by anyone with half a brain- that's not the point. The point is in *how* the story is being told.

 

 

The minor points youre talking about, every last one of them, were direct responses to questions you asked me....questions you posed in the form of arguments which you thought would win your point. Upon reading my rebuttal your argument completely fell apart, and youre now trying to save face by changing the subject and switching gears. I'm not fooled.

 

More importantly, you just contradicted yourself and your earlier arguments. For example in earlier posts you said there were no answers to your plot questions and you specifically said they don’t make any sense....and now that I've provided the answers youre NOW saying "of course anyone can figure out the plot......" No....actually not everyone because you clearly could not - i had to explain it to you. Don't try to steal my argument and then claim it as your own. It has been MY argument all along that the so called plot holes yourself and redletter claim have no answers…..are actually quite easy for anyone to figure out. If its easy for anyone to figure out…..THEN IT ISNT A PLOT HOLE.

 

Here is a sampling of one such post by you:

Here are some questions which the plotline for Episode II don't even begin to answer:

 

- Why would a Jedi (Sifo-Dyas) place an order for an army, even if it was at the behest of a man who turned to the Dark Side?

- Why was the army order placed 10 years before the events of the film?

 

Go to my post in the thread about how the PT films expanded the lore greatly to see even more questions that the films fail to answer.

 

The answers to your questions are what youre now calling belabored details that don’t matter….and stuff which anyone with a brain can figure out. If anyone can figure them out then why did you need to ask the question? And if they dont matter then why did you bring them up?

 

When you want the audience to get immersed into the film, you have to fill in the gaps

This is the same kind of thing people like you complain about. When they actually do fill in the gaps, its Anakin telling you he will do a neat trick before he does the neat trick. It’s easy to figure out: it doesn’t need to be said. Next you will counter that it isn’t easy to figure out. But too late…you’ve already said that anyone with a brain can figure it out. See why I’m getting more and more convinced youre an idiot?

 

 

Case in point: in Fellowship of the Ring,

Maybe you haven’t heard: Fellowship of the Ring was torn to shreds in exactly the same manner that star wars PT was. Stupid points like “ If the birds could fly in and rescue Frodo at the end, then why didn’t Frodo just ride on their back all the way to the volcano and drop the ring in? Those idiots could have skipped the whole trip”

 

I don't need to point anything out.

 

Oh youre a very slippery worm attempting to take things out of context. Here is the whole line:

 

 

 

To call someone "obtuse" because they're pointing out holes in a film……

 

My response:

 

Despite your claim, you have not pointed out any holes in the film

 

Your slimy response:

 

I don't need to point anything out. The burden of proof is on you.

 

Since you like obvious plot points to be pointed out for you, I'll happily comply. YOU said you pointed out plot holes. I said no you didnt. You responded that you dont have to point anything out. I never said you had to point anything out - you claimed that you had pointed out plot holes and I denied it.

 

 

You’re done. You cannot win your argument on merit so you’ve begun to rely on dishonest and slimey tactics.

 

You’ve revealed yourself as: dishonest, dumb, and having lost your argument youre not big enough to own up to it. I will not continue to debate with you and allow you to fool yourself into thinking you’re still in the game when you don’t even have any pieces on the board. You'll get no further acknowledgement from me. Nor any respect. And I'm pretty certain you erased stuff from your previous posts to help support your latest one.

Edited January 7, 2012 by LordMerrick

[RagnarokJC]

The minor points youre talking about, every last one of them, were direct responses to questions you asked me....questions you posed in the form of arguments which you thought would win your point. Upon reading my rebuttal your argument completely fell apart, and youre now trying to save face by changing the subject and switching gears. I'm not fooled.

It's all part of the same point I made earlier. Keep nitpicking away and typing huge walls of text, but it's not going to make your case any stronger.

 

More importantly, you just contradicted yourself and your earlier arguments. For example in earlier posts you said there were no answers to your plot questions and you specifically said they don’t make any sense....and now that I've provided the answers youre NOW saying "of course anyone can figure out the plot......" No....actually not everyone because you clearly could not - i had to explain it to you. Don't try to steal my argument and then claim it as your own. It has been MY argument all along that the so called plot holes yourself and redletter claim have no answers…..are actually quite easy for anyone to figure out. If its easy for anyone to figure out…..THEN IT ISNT A PLOT HOLE.

Originally, I wanted you to provide a full list of these plot holes that you said the RLM review made a mistake on. Again, you're going to the "I'll crit my opponent with a huge wall of text." tactic to cover for the fact that you're unwilling or unable to back your position up. Since you're willing to type so much, why won't you pull out the list of plot holes?

 

Here is a sampling of one such post by you:

 

The answers to your questions are what youre now calling belabored details that don’t matter….and stuff which anyone with a brain can figure out. If anyone can figure them out then why did you need to ask the question? And if they dont matter then why did you bring them up?

I said "anyone with half a brain" could figure them out, since the plot isn't particularly complex. Again, you've missed the point entirely: it's not about the "what" but about the "how" in films like the PT. I know what's going to happen in the PT films in part because they are *prequels*. Seriously, feel free to use those critical thinking faculties at any time.

 

This is the same kind of thing people like you complain about. When they actually do fill in the gaps, its Anakin telling you he will do a neat trick before he does the neat trick. It’s easy to figure out: it doesn’t need to be said. Next you will counter that it isn’t easy to figure out. But too late…you’ve already said that anyone with a brain can figure it out. See why I’m getting more and more convinced youre an idiot?

The fact that you've resorted to insults now is proof that your position is weak. See why I'm getting more and more convinced that you're a person who can't see the world for tripping over his own feet?

 

Maybe you haven’t heard: Fellowship of the Ring was torn to shreds in exactly the same manner that star wars PT was. Stupid points like “ If the birds could fly in and rescue Frodo at the end, then why didn’t Frodo just ride on their back all the way to the volcano and drop the ring in? Those idiots could have skipped the whole trip"

I brought up one example from that film, and you're now using a strawman argument. I don't give a damn how much criticism there was of the LOTR films, since it has nothing to do with the example I used to illustrate my point.

 

Oh youre a very slippery worm. Trying to take things out of context. Here is the whole line:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by RagnarokJC

 

To call someone "obtuse" because they're pointing out holes in a film……

 

My response:

 

Despite your claim, you have not pointed out any holes in the film

Your slimy response:

 

 

This means You’re done. You’re now sc****** the bottom of the barrel: You cannot win your argument on merit so you’ve begun to rely on dishonest and slimey tactics.

You’ve revealed yourself as: dishonest, dumb, and, having lost your argument youre not big enough to own up to it. I will not continue to debate with you and allow you to fool yourself into thinking you’re still in the game when you don’t even have any pieces on the board. You'll get no further acknowledgement from me. Nor any respect

And now you're resorting to claiming "victory". Dude, you can say whatever you like and believe whatever you like, but that just doesn't make it true automatically. Get some more education and experience, and I'm sure you'll understand that someday.

[bfishback]

If you haven't read this yet, it is well worth it.

 

http://www.the-editing-room.com/revengeofthesith.html

 

Oh god.. hilarious.

 

HAYDEN CHRISTENSEN

 

Samuel, I rented the original Star Wars trilogy from Blockbuster. I'm pretty sure Ian McDiarmid is a Sith Lord.

 

-----

 

KI-ADI-MUNDI

 

Oh no, I'm being shot by fewer weapons than at the end of Attack of the Clones! Somehow, this overpowers me!

 

(dies)

 

-------

 

EWAN MCGREGOR

 

It's over, Hayden. I've got the high ground, just like Darth Maul did in Episode 1 right before I killed him successfully. Ignoring that, if you jump over to me, I will cut your **** off.

 

HAYDEN CHRISTENSEN

 

You underestimate my power to decide not to jump to the low ground in front of you where I will be able to safely continue duelling, but to instead try to jump all the way over you and get my **** cut off!

 

------

 

Some really funny lines that made me laugh really hard.

[Ghrog]

Oh, and to all the people that defend Episode III:

 

She lost the will to live.

 

You obviously don't work in the health care field. That kind of stuff actually happens. (Dying from a lost will to live after a traumatic injury, not the vader force choke/ birthing force sensative twins thing)

[PeepsMcJuggs]

You obviously don't work in the health care field. That kind of stuff actually happens. (Dying from a lost will to live after a traumatic injury, not the vader force choke/ birthing force sensative twins thing)

 

You obviously have trouble separating entertainment from reality.

[Ghrog]

You obviously have trouble separating entertainment from reality.

 

Not at all, but nice dismissal, I work in the healthcare industry, my fience is a registered nurse. Make all the jokes you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you obviously have zero clue what you are talking about.

 

Grief can kill as fast as a clogged artery. Ask any competant physician and they will tell you the same.

[Geeluc]

Not only the pathetic NOOOOOO, from Vader, which I would have been crying with laugh if the rest of the movie hadn't sucked so much and put me in a downer.

 

But now GL has changed the end of ROTJ with another NOOOOO from Vader as he kills the Emperor on BR.

 

The problem with the prequels is GL wrote them and coz he's so all powerful and rich now, he's surrounded by 'yes men'. I particularly point the finger at Rick McCallum who was the producer. He kept going on about how awesome the movies were and visually deep, but no one said to Lucas 'You know what, this script sucks!'

 

That's why most movies have re-write after re-write of a script before production. A good director tells a story, if that story sucks, the best director in the world isn't going to make a good film.

 

If people stood up to GL and told him he needed other writers, like he did on ESB, Lawrence Kasdan, the films would have been great. It's been mentioned before, but Red Letter Media : http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/

 

Once you have seen that, and seen how it's the story that's at fault, since he doesn't mention Jar Jar, you will see why any one who grew up with the OT, cannot like the prequels. Be warned, his language is a little colourful.

[PeepsMcJuggs]

Not at all, but nice dismissal, I work in the healthcare industry, my fience is a registered nurse. Make all the jokes you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you obviously have zero clue what you are talking about.

 

Grief can kill as fast as a clogged artery. Ask any competant physician and they will tell you the same.

 

I dismissed your comment outright because I'm resisting the urge to call you infractable names related to your intelligence.

 

Nobody cares what you do for a living. Everybody knows that grief can affect your health and it can kill you. You don't have to work in the "healthcare industry" (read: not a doctor, not a nurse...probably makes the coffee) to know this. Nobody cares that it's medically valid.

 

What people care about is it shows a fundamental lack of imagination on George Lucas' part, and makes Padme look selfishly pathetic in the end. She lost the will to live when she just had twins, because she's too self-absorbed in her own problems to care that she's about to orphan her kids. Great sendoff, George.

[tmblake]

Liked all the movies, including the first three, and I thought Jar Jar was cute. People just are never happy with what is done unless they are the ones to dictate exactly how it's done. Get over it and move on, you can't change it and it's how it was obviously meant to be, otherwise it wouldn't have been done the way it was.

[KenyanStarkiller]

The prequel trilogy has: "bad" lead role and "bad" acting from him; Jar-Jar; Midichlorians; green screen "over-usage"

 

These can all be discredited except Jar-Jar (he was awful). Christensen did exactly what he needed to for the character. Lucas told him exactly how to act, and he delivered. He was not a whiny actor, he played a whiny character.

 

Midichlorians were an attempt at reaching a new, less impressionable audience. I was young when these movies came out. I totally would have liked them without the explanation of everything, but Lucas was worried my generation might not fall for the whole mystical thing.

 

Green screen only made these movies look how they were supposed to, not like action figures floating in front of a camera and then adding lasers coming from them in the actual production.

 

The original trilogy has: Ewoks (***), Jawas (***), a wookie who played the same role as Jar-Jar just done better, an awful sappy love story between a certain smuggler and princess, awful effects that blew people away a long time ago, awful light saber combat, little Jedi action, a whiny protagonist who thinks he knows everything as soon as he gets a lightsaber, and a story that could have been written by a 4 year old.

 

All of you are too nostalgic for your own good. You were given MORE by Lucas! You should have appreciated what you got; the second coming of your beloved space opera, yet you can't just enjoy the movies like my generation did. I love every Star Wars movie with a passion. I love Anakin Skywalker's story and his portrayal in Revenge of the Sith. Episode III is my favorite movie. Everyone stop whining.

[flosofl]

You obviously don't work in the health care field. That kind of stuff actually happens. (Dying from a lost will to live after a traumatic injury, not the vader force choke/ birthing force sensative twins thing)

 

I refer you to the end of this Robot Chicken sketch, Dr. Ball MD.

 

http://video.adultswim.com/robot-chicken/dr-ball-md.html

[PeepsMcJuggs]

The prequel trilogy has: "bad" lead role and "bad" acting from him; Jar-Jar; Midichlorians; green screen "over-usage"

 

These can all be discredited except Jar-Jar (he was awful). Christensen did exactly what he needed to for the character. Lucas told him exactly how to act, and he delivered. He was not a whiny actor, he played a whiny character.

 

Midichlorians were an attempt at reaching a new, less impressionable audience. I was young when these movies came out. I totally would have liked them without the explanation of everything, but Lucas was worried my generation might not fall for the whole mystical thing.

 

Green screen only made these movies look how they were supposed to, not like action figures floating in front of a camera and then adding lasers coming from them in the actual production.

 

The original trilogy has: Ewoks (***), Jawas (***), a wookie who played the same role as Jar-Jar just done better, an awful sappy love story between a certain smuggler and princess, awful effects that blew people away a long time ago, awful light saber combat, little Jedi action, a whiny protagonist who thinks he knows everything as soon as he gets a lightsaber, and a story that could have been written by a 4 year old.

 

All of you are too nostalgic for your own good. You were given MORE by Lucas! You should have appreciated what you got; the second coming of your beloved space opera, yet you can't just enjoy the movies like my generation did. I love every Star Wars movie with a passion. I love Anakin Skywalker's story and his portrayal in Revenge of the Sith. Episode III is my favorite movie. Everyone stop whining.

 

What "your generation" fails to understand, Kenyan, is if Lucas had simply gone on to make prequels, and they sucked, that would've been okay. But what he did was take the trilogy "our" generation grew up on, threw in a bunch of crap that none of us wanted, then promised us we'd never get to see the original version ever again (unless you bought the bootleg-quality bonus DVDs that were 1:1 rips of the Laserdisc). Then, after pissing all over our childhood, he made prequels that didn't simply suck, they completely contradicted everything we grew up on, and ignored every single story element he'd been hinting at for two decades.

 

"Your generation" accuses us of whining. We're not whining, we're angry. Because Star Wars isn't Lucas' story alone. Among other things, messing with Empire Strikes Back without the approval of (among others) Irvin Kershner because of "his" vision is insulting to both the production team and the fans. And with the prequels, he formed a team of yes-men to ensure he wouldn't have to deal with the "stress" he had during the first films: that stress being people telling him when he was talking out his arse. So what we got was garbage, written, directed and starring a man too lazy to get his fat arse out of his director's chair.

 

Edit: Oh yeah, and just to make sure we really hated the Prequels, Lucas took it one step further and inserted Hayden Christiansen into Return of the Jedi. Because that's what the movie so desperately needed. A cameo of the "ideal" Anakin. When he was such an upstanding Jedi. I'm sure the Tusken Raiders appreciated that. **** you, Lucas.

Edited January 7, 2012 by PeepsMcJuggs

[ExiledRevan]

I wonder how many people hate the prequels just to jump on the bandwagon. Sure they aren't perfect but they are enjoyable enough and really the original trilogy isn't that much different from the prequels in terms of quality.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I wonder how many people hate the prequels just to jump on the bandwagon. Sure they aren't perfect but they are enjoyable enough and really the original trilogy isn't that much different from the prequels in terms of quality.

 

Whats funny is that....for them being hated on, people still watch them anyway and they made a ton of money when they were released. Infact TPM alone made more money then ANH, ESB and ROTJ.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[RagnarokJC]

Whats funny is that....for them being hated on, people still watch them anyway and they made a ton of money when they were released. Infact TPM alone made more money then ANH, ESB and ROTJ.

When are you going to stop bringing up this tired argument? Every single person on the planet could believe that the sky is red, but that doesn't make it true. The same applies to trying to use box office totals as an indicator of a film's quality.

[Wolfninjajedi]

When are you going to stop bringing up this tired argument? Every single person on the planet could believe that the sky is red, but that doesn't make it true. The same applies to trying to use box office totals as an indicator of a film's quality.

 

That wasn't my point, my point being is that people still went and watched them.

[RagnarokJC]

That wasn't my point, my point being is that people still went and watched them.

You mentioned people watching those films *despite hating them*. Aside from the obvious question of where your proof is for this, I'd like know why you brought this up to begin with?

[DarylMusashi]

I wonder how many people hate the prequels just to jump on the bandwagon. Sure they aren't perfect but they are enjoyable enough and really the original trilogy isn't that much different from the prequels in terms of quality.

 

I genuinely hate Phantom Menace. Its the worst movie with the biggest budget I have ever seen. It tops even independence Day in that regard. Its one of the worst movies I have ever seen ever, period.

 

I can watch the other two prequels for certain scenes, and they don't generally disgust me the way Phantom Menace does.

[DarylMusashi]

Whats funny is that....for them being hated on, people still watch them anyway and they made a ton of money when they were released. Infact TPM alone made more money then ANH, ESB and ROTJ.

 

There are a lot more people on the planet than there was in the late 70s early 80s.

 

Money is inflated by a quite a bit over that time as well. It takes spending considerably more dollars now to equal what less dollars would buy you back then.

 

Apples and oranges.

[Shottp]

 

Watch all of those. They will make you hate George Lucas, for GOOOOOD reason.

 

Those videos are absolutely brilliant! I always wondered WHY I thought the movies were crap, other than the gaping inconsistencies, the bad acting, the COMPLETE reliance on CG.... There was actually NO STORY ARC! Okay the story arc is this... there's a little boy who has powers, grows up, gets mad and becomes a bad guy. But there is absolutely NO DEPTH to the "story" just a bunch of dialogue and explosions... oh and fancy lightsabers EVERY-F-ING-WHERE!! At least in the original trilogy being a Jedi MEANT something. In the prequels, everybody and their f-ing grandma was a Jedi, unless they were a Sith or JarJar Binks! ***!?!?

 

Sorry, if you think the prequels were good movies, you are going to have a hard time surviving in the adult world... That is, unless, you believe that the gub-ment should hand you everything you need and want...

 

Empire Strikes Back was the BORINGEST? Oh boy you really do have jello for brains!!

[Jeffers]

meh I really love all of the films, prequels included. I mean without the prequels we wouldn't have awesome characters like maul or qui-gon.

[Saigo]

My problems with the prequels:

 

Anakin, the 'kid' version was too annoying, 'teen' Anakin was also.

Attack of the Clones - The CGI had some really ropey moments that took me out of the film, prime example the Trooper running over the sand after checking on Padme.

Also the scene in the Droid factory with 3pO. I mean, come on that was terrible.

"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" (The force tantrum was enough without the scream.

 

Apart from those I'm fine with the prequels, Qui Gon, Maul and to a lesser extent Doku and Grevious were all fine characters and I enjoyed all 3 but especially 1 and 3. They all have bits I absolutely love and bits I find irritating.

[Pebby]

I don't hate the prequels. I do prefer the original movies, but I also enjoy Episodes I-III. However, it's kind of silly that the episodes that take place before the original movies look more futuristic! The acting can be sort of cheesy, but I was entertained nonetheless.

[ExiledRevan]

Sorry, if you think the prequels were good movies, you are going to have a hard time surviving in the adult world... That is, unless, you believe that the gub-ment should hand you everything you need and want...

 

 

Lame and judgmental attack on anyone that has a different opinion than yours. Especialy since the opinion is about some friggin movies. Sounds like someone here needs to grow up. Talk about living in the adult world.

[Ageizm]

I love the prequeals, it's because of them I got to see Yoda wield a light saber, worth all 15 minutes.