Sentinel PvP

[Riddickcz]

Hey guys,

 

I have JK Sentinel lvl 50 Combat spec for few days already. Have quite some pvp gear, about 14.5k hp, 1.200 str, 22 crit chance and 70% crit multiplier.

 

I didnt have a single problem while leveling to kill an elites or whatever. It was fun I liked it and all..even though I kinda failed in PvP compared to other classes while being lower lvl I thought it will be all fine when I get to 50.

 

So I got to 50, got some proper pvp gear and started warzones. Now I dont know what Im doing wrong there..generally I dont know what im doing wrong in pvp, but I just cant seem to take down almost anyone 1v1. In Ilum I tried BHs, Juggernauts, Sorcs, Agents I always get killed without the other class getting to 50% or so. Im getting hit by 4k etc while my stronest ability hits for what 2k?

 

If I have healer with me in Warzone I get to about 30 kills and like 130k dmg...

 

So I got angry and lvled Commando to 10 lvl and joined Warzone. First warzone I went was Void Star, I ended up first with 47 kills and 2 deaths and 186k dmg...which is kinda sad considering this being with 10 lvl character without half of gear slots filled and about 10 abilities to use.

 

I still havent given up hope for my Sent, but I really feel like melee class (or sent in particular?) is just useless for pvp.

 

Any tips or thoughts?

[Avean]

I don't have any problems with any class with a Sentinel as i truly believe its the best class in melee.

In PvP i normally go for light armored users first like sorcerors and assassins, they do tons of dps but go down 5x faster than we do. So its important people start focusing these classes down.

 

They have a very high burst dps for a reason, theyre like glass. Touch them and they will break. Also if an assassin pop vanish you are probably in ataru form and have movement boost so you can easily break him with aoe attack. Sorcerors will CC you for a long time and slow you, so i usually backpedal so i can force leap onto him. You only need 5-6 seconds and he is dead. But you need to face him fast cause his dps is immense.

 

With imperial agents and bounty hunters they are what i call moving targets. You see they always run around and shoot, so its important you leg slash them and get up close with them all the time. So ehm yeah, thats my pvp tips hehe. Every class has a different approach to it, just understand that every other class except the jedi knight class is built to hold you down, cause you are a beast in melee. If they let you up close they are basicly dead. Learn to deal with cc and slow effects.

[Riddickcz]

Leg Slash is the first ability I use on everyone after I charge in so they are slowed. However I have no idea how do You kill Sorc in PvP in 5 secs. There is no way even after using my all dps CDs to do that. It just doesnt feel like my abilities are hitting for high enough dmg so the target can go down fast. Even though Combat spec should be more of a burst dmg one...It doesnt really feel burst dmg at all.

[Moldrany]

This game in PvP isn't balanced around 1v1, but for groups.

 

In groups, a sentinels is a beast and very useful with all the group buffs he provides and the insane damage (combat sentinels usually top the charts with 300-450k with a healer on their team).

 

Overall, the sentinel is one of the best classes in Warzones. The utility we have is amazing, it requires you to play on a very high level but if you know how to play the class you will do perfectly fine each game.

 

Sorcerors will CC you for a long time and slow you, so i usually backpedal so i can force leap onto him. You only need 5-6 seconds and he is dead.

 

Don't listen to this guy, backpedalling is not really effective, you should strafe away for a leap (besides, against sorc you should save it for their knockback anyways).

 

Just keep playing, you will improve each time and once you truly mastered the class you don't want to play anything else again.

[Riddickcz]

Well so far I am having way much more fun with my trooper. I dont need a healer to kill 1 on 1 anybody in pvp, i even managed to down 46lvl BH as my 18lvl Trooper. With healer on me I always top dmg and kills..cant say the same with sent.

 

I still like sent for PvE though I think its awesome..so I might end up having Sent for PvE and Trooper for PVP.

[MBirkhofer]

This game in PvP isn't balanced around 1v1, but for groups.

 

In groups, a sentinels is a beast and very useful with all the group buffs he provides and the insane damage (combat sentinels usually top the charts with 300-450k with a healer on their team).

 

Overall, the sentinel is one of the best classes in Warzones. The utility we have is amazing, it requires you to play on a very high level but if you know how to play the class you will do perfectly fine each game.

 

 

 

Don't listen to this guy, backpedalling is not really effective, you should strafe away for a leap (besides, against sorc you should save it for their knockback anyways).

 

Just keep playing, you will improve each time and once you truly mastered the class you don't want to play anything else again.

 

Im not calling you a liar. But you probably lieing. Hell, I've only ever seen one person break 400k. It was a 50 battlemaster sorc. in voidstar. And a 4man premade, with all 50s on the entire team. they actaully had 4 sorcs on the team. Which allowed chain ranged dps CC. Get stunned, take 4k dps for 6s. everyone dies.

 

Combat is the WORST pvp spec for sentinals.

 

Group pvp is where sents fall behind. having to melee when everyone else has instant aoe knockbacks. As well as ranged stuns/roots. Sure, get by 1 persons CC. Then get hit with someone elses.

 

Maybe when they fix the input lag, and abilities not firing off. our reliance on def cooldowns, means they need to WORK when we hit them. hitting stasis, or guarded by the force at a key moment, and having it not go off, usually means you just died.

Edited December 31, 2011 by MBirkhofer

[McDaniels]

Im not calling you a liar. But you probably lieing. Hell, I've only ever seen one person break 400k. It was a 50 battlemaster sorc. in voidstar. And a 4man premade, with all 50s on the entire team. they actaully had 4 sorcs on the team. Which allowed chain ranged dps CC. Get stunned, take 4k dps for 6s. everyone dies.

 

Combat is the WORST pvp spec for sentinals.

 

Group pvp is where sents fall behind. having to melee when everyone else has instant aoe knockbacks. As well as ranged stuns/roots. Sure, get by 1 persons CC. Then get hit with someone elses.

 

Maybe when they fix the input lag, and abilities not firing off. our reliance on def cooldowns, means they need to WORK when we hit them. hitting stasis, or guarded by the force at a key moment, and having it not go off, usually means you just died.

 

I've done 500k as watchman and 475k as combat... both are viable and strong...

 

As for group PvP we have our strengths and weaknesses like any class. We aren't meant to be in the heat of things without really strong heals on us. Our job is to be on the fringe of the battle focusing down healers. If you're charging into 8 people and getting burned down in 3 seconds, its not because the class is bad, its because you're doing it wrong.

 

Secondly, you shouldn't be charging as an initiate, particularly in watchman spec. As a watchman charge and leg slash are really your only gap closers, you don't want to burn your best one before the fight even starts. Run up to him normally, let him cc you, then leap and leg slash.

 

Everyone needs to stop *********** on combat when they haven't played it enough to know how to use it effectively...

[Mavick]

 

Everyone needs to stop *********** on combat when they haven't played it enough to know how to use it effectively...

 

 

Amen.

[Alkolyk]

This game in PvP isn't balanced around 1v1, but for groups.

 

In groups, a sentinels is a beast and very useful with all the group buffs he provides and the insane damage (combat sentinels usually top the charts with 300-450k with a healer on their team).

 

Overall, the sentinel is one of the best classes in Warzones. The utility we have is amazing, it requires you to play on a very high level but if you know how to play the class you will do perfectly fine each game.

 

 

 

Don't listen to this guy, backpedalling is not really effective, you should strafe away for a leap (besides, against sorc you should save it for their knockback anyways).

 

Just keep playing, you will improve each time and once you truly mastered the class you don't want to play anything else again.

 

I call bull on theses numbers, the highest ive reached was 290k with a focus spec built for aoe on voidstar and ive got my tier 1 set + had a very good healer with me on voice chat.

 

Sentinels provide ****** dmg in warzones due to class design probably worst in the game, building rage + dump is a very bad mechanic for pvp when there are that many CCs in the game.

 

That said it doesnt mean that the class is useless because just like warriors in wow (rage + dump) we might scale better late game then other classes.

 

In response to the OP, ive done the same exact thing, beat my dmg hardcore on a lvl 14 commando, at first it was depressing but i now realise that the numbers in warzones can't represent what the true job of sentinels is.

 

The role that Ive found works best for me so far is of disruption. We have so many strong CDs along with 2 interupts (remember leap interupts), a healing debuff and grip. In pvp I try to let the others go in and I look for a healer, if there is one ill simply lock him down with silences and grip while putting dmg pressure on him. They usually start running or try to kite you and thats where you should have done a good enough job at keeping him from healing that there should be a low hp target somewhere in the fray.

 

Leap on it + your biggest burst ability + dispatch. Rince and repeat.

 

Guarded by the force + camo are also very abusive in terms of wasting a ton of time to several enemies, i cant count how many times i prevented groups of enemies from capping points leaping in, using guarded by the force and 6s later camo away a little and then leap back in to disrupt again.

 

I would suggest you try watchmen spec instead of combat as it provides more burst through merciless slash to finish targets, has better survivability due to dots crits healing you and key talens in the tree and it allows you to use leap as a second interupt due to the talent that removes min range restriction on leap + reduced leap cd. Leap is actually much better of an interupt most of the time since it generates focus instead of costing you some.

 

Hopefully that will ease your pain.

[romanen]

I completely think Sentinels should be buffed in pvp. I am a marauder and I am horrible at pvp, but I always manage to kill what seems to be a skilled sentinel, I think this is unfair because its the ONLY class I can kill which says something. As I said Sentinels should be buffed a bit at least that is what I think.

[McDaniels]

No offense but you guys just really need to gear up and/or L2P... This class can be very good in pvp if you play it right, otherwise its awful and thats what most of you are probably experiencing.

[Moldrany]

Im not calling you a liar. But you probably lieing. Hell, I've only ever seen one person break 400k. It was a 50 battlemaster sorc. in voidstar. And a 4man premade, with all 50s on the entire team. they actaully had 4 sorcs on the team. Which allowed chain ranged dps CC. Get stunned, take 4k dps for 6s. everyone dies.

 

Combat is the WORST pvp spec for sentinals.

 

Group pvp is where sents fall behind. having to melee when everyone else has instant aoe knockbacks. As well as ranged stuns/roots. Sure, get by 1 persons CC. Then get hit with someone elses.

 

I'm not a fan of posting screenshots or something, but this is the second thread already were people are questioning the damage output some players with sentinels have.

 

I constantly see people breaking 400k and sometimes 500k on my realm, on highest level I'd say sage > commando/sentinel > rest.

 

Of course, you can only compare damage numbers in Void Star, Alderaan is about defending nodes and Hutt Ball about scoring and killing carriers, not about killing the enemy team off as fast as possible.

If you play to win, damage numbers are significantly worse in the other 2 warzones, however if you just wanna do max damage for some reason you are still able to reach 250k+ in other zones.

 

Those screens were made yesterday, didn't get a 500k one but close to it.

 

480k dmg

480k, queued with 1 healing sage and 1 vanguard, enemies were a premade Imp

 

420k dmg

queued solo

 

3 sentinels

queued solo, other sentinels do around same damage (also opened a few doors and access data station)

 

310k no heals

without any healer on your team, it is still possible to be top damage dealer if you know how to survive and escape all near death situations

 

Spec was combat, gear was a half champion pieces. DPS is usually between 410 and 520. I have seen many watchman sentinels, but no one was able to get even close this numbers.

 

All I want to show is that sentinels are fine at level 50 with decent gear and combat spec. Don't talk people into playing watchman when combat is doing very well if you start learning how to play it.

I'm not even close to mastering combat, each game there is 1000 things that I could have done better.

It is a complex game and will take months until we are actually able to play the class on a high level (if you played WoW, just watch lvl 60 videos and current ones).

[MBirkhofer]

that is remarkable.

 

I am not sure how you can put up numbers like that, and not win in 3min though..

highest damage game I had, I did 200k. and had 47 kills.

[Sleeptastic]

Combat is good at killing people. Bad at producing high overall damage though.

[McDaniels]

Combat is good at killing people. Bad at producing high overall damage though.

 

It's fine at producing overall damage, again i've done 475k with it... its a solid all around spec although watchman is currently better by a bit in my opinion. With an ataru buff it should be competitive with watchman... Both are viable, can kill, and can put up big damage numbers.

[Riddickcz]

To Moldrany: You gotta tell me how You do that cause im out of ideas. Tried watchman and it feels good at start after zealous strike, where I put out all the burned effects n stuff, but when i have to start using strike just to get some focus before CD on ZS goes off, the dmg starts to feel so low.

 

I think I will get back to combat cause I leveled with it (didnt have a single problem with this spec while leveling) and played already a lot with this spec and kinda liked it more..and it feels like I have always a lot of focus. However I really have no frikkin idea how You could get 60:2 score or 50:10 score without healer or whatever...not even mentioning the dmg, thats just frikkin insane. And I think we might have similar gear, but I just cant see how these numbers are possible. I must admit too that I called BS until I saw the sreens..

 

So few tips to fellow sentinel would be appreciated

 

Cheers

[McDaniels]

To Moldrany: You gotta tell me how You do that cause im out of ideas. Tried watchman and it feels good at start after zealous strike, where I put out all the burned effects n stuff, but when i have to start using strike just to get some focus before CD on ZS goes off, the dmg starts to feel so low.

 

I think I will get back to combat cause I leveled with it (didnt have a single problem with this spec while leveling) and played already a lot with this spec and kinda liked it more..and it feels like I have always a lot of focus. However I really have no frikkin idea how You could get 60:2 score or 50:10 score without healer or whatever...not even mentioning the dmg, thats just frikkin insane. And I think we might have similar gear, but I just cant see how these numbers are possible. I must admit too that I called BS until I saw the sreens..

 

So few tips to fellow sentinel would be appreciated

 

Cheers

 

Watchman and combat can both put up numbers like that, and both have strengths and weaknesses so I would play whichever is more enjoyable for you and just focus on improving your play with that spec.

 

The first thing that you should know is that gear will help you A LOT... I'm not sure what gear moldran had, but I know that when I started getting most of my champion set together my damage shot up significantly. Thats not to say that its impossible to get 400k+ without pvp gear, but its much more doable with it, so if you don't have PvP gear don't expect huge numbers, at least not regularly.

 

Secondly, having healers increases our damage output by a huge margin. This class is not a very tanky class, yet we're a melee class. We get focused quite often because we're "the obvious dps" in any situation, you can have a gunslinger pounding on a player from 50 feet away and doing way more damage than you, but if you're in there swinging your lightsabers at a guy, chances are hes going to deal with you first regardless of who is doing more damage to him, this means you're likely to take a lot of damage in any warzone so having a healer to keep you up allows you to stay up and do more damage...

 

As for tips for you personally. Yeah, watchman can have focus problems. It's important to get your dots up as early as possible in order to get the 30% chance to proc an extra focus. If I leap in I use this rotation: Leap -> Overload sabers -> zealous strike -> merciless slash -> cauterize. At this point you have no focus and need to start using strike. For me, because im geared, at this point my opponent is probably relatively low and I can potentially use dispatch, if he isnt I can use force stasis to lock him up while building more focus.

 

One key tip is to use valorous call and zen as often as possible. Valorous call isn't a very long CD and should be used immediately after its up in most situation (unless you have a lot of centering already built). Zen is where your big damage comes from in combat or watchman spec. In watchman you should use it as you leap in or before you apply dots.

 

In combat spec zen allows you to spam blade rush super fast and with precision slash up you will annihilate anyone who can't keep you off of them. Note that focused slash from the watchman tree is a must have talent for any spec.

 

Also if you don't have jedi crusader on your watchman spec, its from the combat tree, it could help a bit with some of your focus problems, but generally speaking watchman does seem to lack focus more than combat.

 

Again both are very strong when played well. When ataru is fixed combat will be even better. Right now I think the advantage is slightly in watchman's favor although watchman is significantly harder to play in my opinion.

[Shandrii]

i have been playing combat since 10 and i haven't left it, i am very good at pvp and have said several times that this class will become better after you get to the later levels. I am now a lvl 45 combat sentinel and i really don't see this class being very good at anything, it can do interrupts and has good survivablity but outside of that this class blows, the dps for a warrior type class is sub-par. if any class needs a buff its this one, our dps just isn't what it should be.

[Arharus]

I disagree, sent dps is verygood. I compare it with shadow infiltration. And what i feel is that sent (watchman tree) just tears foes apart, especially soloing elites (lvl 37 atm). While shadow spends hell more time to do the same at lvl 31. Yes, i know, the lvl gap... Concerning pvp... Yes, shadow does crit more, but this is pvp. And usual standards of dps here are not applicable. IMHO

[Riddickcz]

I disagree, sent dps is verygood. I compare it with shadow infiltration. And what i feel is that sent (watchman tree) just tears foes apart, especially soloing elites (lvl 37 atm). While shadow spends hell more time to do the same at lvl 31. Yes, i know, the lvl gap... Concerning pvp... Yes, shadow does crit more, but this is pvp. And usual standards of dps here are not applicable. IMHO

 

Umm I dno what Shadow has to do with all this We are talking about Jedi Knight Sentinel Advanced class..not Consular Shadows..

 

Anyway, for the rotation I do the same. However my target is nowhere near 20% of hp So I guess I will just keep gearing up and hope to get over 200k in dmg some day with 50 lvl char, when I do 250k with 20 lvl char now with no problems. It just doesnt feel right you know.

[SharkSurfr]

Focus ftw! Focus

[Rankith]

I still think watchman is strongest for competittive pvp. The problem it has is in pub stomps you just cant get any damage out cause things die before your 3 stack of overload saber gets up and before cauterize ticks out .

[Riddickcz]

OK guys, I tried to get deeper in watchman and it really seems to do more dmg. In PvE I actually overagroed at some point which never happened with Combat and in PvP I saw finally few hits over 4k..when in Combat I was hitting for 2,5k tops.

 

So I guess I will just stick with Watchman and play it more and more and improve with time.

 

Thanks for all Your help and tips folks.

 

Regards,

Rid

[Bigbazz]

I've not been doing a lot of warzones, but I've done a fair bit of world pvp, combat specced sentinel and it is very effective in pvp. I often get jumped by assasins while I'm fighting mobs, I can escape easily, heal up and go on the hunt, wait for them to attempt to ambush me and then slaughter them.

 

Assasins have made up probably 90% of the world pvp I've experienced so far, a few sorcerers and one or two bounty hunters, not seen an agent yet.

[ShahktE]

Those sentinels doing very poorly in pvp just need some practice and maybe work on skill rotation, at level 20 I was owning *** with a fair bit of consistency with some wins 1v1 with players in the 30s. Scoring usually in the top 5... Gear and using the right skills at the right times