Hamchuck Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 just going to bounce a few things off of you. Some of what you said definitely jives with my experience, other stuff I disagree with a bit and I'll throw in my 2c. Shield tech right now is pretty op. People are really underestimating the IGC. It is a great way to do additional damage. I have no problem burning down heavily geared Juggs or Assassins in tank spec while they are lvl 50 in warzones. Shieldtech is doing much better in PvP than the other specs mostly cause of the mobility. ION is currently broken actually and not adding nearly as much damage as the tooltip says. Only ~40% actually. It is still extra damage, but the real benefit of ION is guard and a bit more toughness. Oh, and being in the tree that gives you Jetcharge. Your spec is pretty solid ST spec. I did that for a while and had fun with it, but the damage output really bummed me out, I didn't like getting into these long fights with healers where they slowly ground me down because I didnt have any proper burst to finish them off. I'm having a lot more fun with a hybrid spec that has a bit more oomph. A spec with heavy ST for Jetcharge is definitely the best way to PvP right now imo. A strong Pyro is my second choice due the ability to do decent damage at range. Reason I want to try out the pyrotech build is I feel that once I get the extra gear my survivability will scale a lot and I feel like I can sacrifice the 10% shield chance for more dps + burst ability while at the same time increasing my endurance by 3%. I pretty much completely agree here. You wont miss that shield chance at all. Hell, I've taken to trying pvp at least deep enough in ST for Jet Charge and DPS gear. Still very sturdy, still bring the utility of guard, still an awesome huttball carrier, but you get a bit more oomph to contribute to focus fire scenarios or 1v1s. Don't feel like you need thermal detonator as you already have railshot that gives you 90% armor penetration/6% damage increase/9% damage increase to burning targets. Not to mention the 45% chance on the cooldown reset is pretty amazing with flame burst because I spam that skill like crazy. This is where you lose me... First off the 45% chance is on RP, not FB, that's 30%, but I'm splitting hairs. What I really want to do is talk about Thermal Detonator. TD does a LOT more damage than the online talent tree calcs say it does. I'm not sure why they're all messed up, but Thermal Detonator hits like a truck in game. You can check for yourself by mousing over the TD tooltip in your own ingame talent tree, itll have accurate damage numbers for your gear. Add in more damage from Pyro talents on crit and you'll see where I'm coming from here. Furthermore, TD is the best burst in the game. Not just our best burst, THE best burst. Period. Snipers/Gunslingers can come close, but they don't beat TD. Damage doesn't kill anyone significant in PvP. Focus fire and BURST damage does. Throw a Thermal Detonator, launch an incin missile, Rail Shot. Depending on latency and travel time of the TD, you might have to wait a tick or two. Point is, you can time that Rail Shot and Thermal Detonator to go off at approximately the same time. This is such a ridiculous amount of damage in the same global cooldown that it takes people from "Oh he doesn't need a heal, he's fine!" to "Holy **** what happened to that guy?" Stacking damage like this with TD is not to be underestimated. I do think I will end up coming back to my Shield Tech build though as I love the survivability and I can literally tank 5-6 people while having one healer focus heal me. ^.^ JUST MY TWO CENTS FROM A PVP PERSPECTIVE! If you've got good heals (especially Mercs reactive heal shield or bubble/heal sorcs) then you can practically do that as a DPS spec running ION. I'd strongly recomend you at least fiddle around with either a hybrid Jetcharge/something-else-with-damage spec or go full ST in a mix of tank and dps gear for a bit more oomph. It's worked much better for me in PvP. Both in group situations and in 1v1. Anyway, that's my experience to bounce off yours. I mostly wanted to step in here and rant about how awesome TD is once you've figured out the timing on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaurV Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Can we go back to Heat Blast and how awesome it is not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkwun Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 just going to bounce a few things off of you. Some of what you said definitely jives with my experience, other stuff I disagree with a bit and I'll throw in my 2c. Shieldtech is doing much better in PvP than the other specs mostly cause of the mobility. ION is currently broken actually and not adding nearly as much damage as the tooltip says. Only ~40% actually. It is still extra damage, but the real benefit of ION is guard and a bit more toughness. Oh, and being in the tree that gives you Jetcharge. Your spec is pretty solid ST spec. I did that for a while and had fun with it, but the damage output really bummed me out, I didn't like getting into these long fights with healers where they slowly ground me down because I didnt have any proper burst to finish them off. I'm having a lot more fun with a hybrid spec that has a bit more oomph. A spec with heavy ST for Jetcharge is definitely the best way to PvP right now imo. A strong Pyro is my second choice due the ability to do decent damage at range. I pretty much completely agree here. You wont miss that shield chance at all. Hell, I've taken to trying pvp at least deep enough in ST for Jet Charge and DPS gear. Still very sturdy, still bring the utility of guard, still an awesome huttball carrier, but you get a bit more oomph to contribute to focus fire scenarios or 1v1s. This is where you lose me... First off the 45% chance is on RP, not FB, that's 30%, but I'm splitting hairs. What I really want to do is talk about Thermal Detonator. TD does a LOT more damage than the online talent tree calcs say it does. I'm not sure why they're all messed up, but Thermal Detonator hits like a truck in game. You can check for yourself by mousing over the TD tooltip in your own ingame talent tree, itll have accurate damage numbers for your gear. Add in more damage from Pyro talents on crit and you'll see where I'm coming from here. Furthermore, TD is the best burst in the game. Not just our best burst, THE best burst. Period. Snipers/Gunslingers can come close, but they don't beat TD. Damage doesn't kill anyone significant in PvP. Focus fire and BURST damage does. Throw a Thermal Detonator, launch an incin missile, Rail Shot. Depending on latency and travel time of the TD, you might have to wait a tick or two. Point is, you can time that Rail Shot and Thermal Detonator to go off at approximately the same time. This is such a ridiculous amount of damage in the same global cooldown that it takes people from "Oh he doesn't need a heal, he's fine!" to "Holy **** what happened to that guy?" Stacking damage like this with TD is not to be underestimated. If you've got good heals (especially Mercs reactive heal shield or bubble/heal sorcs) then you can practically do that as a DPS spec running ION. I'd strongly recomend you at least fiddle around with either a hybrid Jetcharge/something-else-with-damage spec or go full ST in a mix of tank and dps gear for a bit more oomph. It's worked much better for me in PvP. Both in group situations and in 1v1. Anyway, that's my experience to bounce off yours. I mostly wanted to step in here and rant about how awesome TD is once you've figured out the timing on it. My plan is to get the DPS battle master set so I can have that extra oomph But I agree with mostly everything you have said! I dont get the hype behind retractable blade tho. 0.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStarburst Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) I don't know if this has been mentioned yet since I haven't read this whole thread, but compare heat blast to the 31 point talent for Sith Juggs/Jedi Guards. Huge difference. Their ability hits like a truck and has a better effect (applies armor reduction). Same cooldown time. There is definitely a balance problem here. Edited January 3, 2012 by JackStarburst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chainsawsamurai Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I don't know if this has been mentioned yet since I haven't read this whole thread, but compare heat blast to the 31 point talent for Sith Juggs/Jedi Guards. Huge difference. Their ability hits like a truck and has a better effect (applies armor reduction). Same cooldown time. There is definitely a balance problem here. Yes definitely. Juggs are huge crybabies though so don't bring it up to them. They'll be whining about all our AoE or some such nonsense while trying to sweep their awesome talent tree under the carpet. Jugg cooldowns are also pretty insane compared to ours. It doesn't just look like different development teams worked on them, it looks like they belong in entirely different games. It is pretty drastic. The whole Shieldtech tree needs some work. I'd be pretty happy if they started with Heat Blast but that really isn't going to cut it. Current PvE isn't really pushing the tank or healing envelopes, but if it did I can guarantee you a ST's place would be just as an off-tank for Juggs (Oil Slick doesn't apply crap to the PT using it, just a debuff to baddies, so that would add one more cooldown to the tanking Jugg's arsenal). Again, everything is fine now. This isn't an absolutely immediate concern. We definitely need to come together as a community and have it looked into before we get tougher content added though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStarburst Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Also, how is this for a full shield spec without heat blast? I also sacrificed prototype cylinders and put the extra 2 points into Rail Loaders. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GMGrdorogZMcbZb.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dardack Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I've seen some hybrid. I really hate respecing all the time. Just curious about this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301RMrrbzroZ0MZbIbbdh.1 Right now i'm ST/Advanced, for the blade. Just wish I could find that extra point for the 100% grapple stun, oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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