Broadsword - Why do you have such disdain for stealth?????????

[Diamaht]

1 hour ago, Traceguy said:

Me personally, I'm not speaking on behalf of flashpoints. Those are generally done in groups, and the chance of getting a full stealth team, and landing in a FP that is anti-stealth is rather too rare to be bothered by. I'm more addressing playing through the story (such as the one from 7.5) and heroics (such as Biological Warfare on Correlia).

 

 

1 hour ago, KyraMalakai said:

What loot? I am talking about story where most mobs don't even drop anything to begin with, besides we are not requesting this grand new feature that will let us bypass the enemies giving us an advantage over the favourite combat styles of the hour that cannot do it, we are simply wanting to use an actual class ability to the extend it is supposed to work otherwise what is the point of having stealth at all.

If you want story instances skippable the point still stands.

What reason would a game developer want their content skippable?  The argument is silly.

The entire point of a video game is to overcome something through gameplay.  If all you want to do is skip to the cutscene then they should just implement a cut scene library.

If the story instances are dull the solution is to find ways to make them fun and challenging.  Not let you walk past them.

[DarthNillard]

Been playing this game since Beta, and ^^^ above is the first person I put on ignore.  Its actually impressive how badly you seem to be missing the point here, repeatedly, no matter how many people keep explaining things to you.  I guess if you're going to be wrong, be loud wrong 😹

[KaoRocket]

@Diamaht So by your logic, we are suppose to kill every single killable thing in every story instance, flashpoint, etc., because skipping is bad. Poor mobs standing in the far corners of the map, minding their own business.

[Diamaht]

5 hours ago, KaoRocket said:

@Diamaht So by your logic, we are suppose to kill every single killable thing in every story instance, flashpoint, etc., because skipping is bad. Poor mobs standing in the far corners of the map, minding their own business.

@KaoRocket So by your logic all mobs ever created in the game should be skipable, because mobs are bad. 

Do you see how distorting an argument beyond reason to change the goal post of a discussion is a bit silly?

The point is, you can't argue on the one hand that you get no meaningful content, and on the other hand insist that you should be able to skip past nearly everything, thereby rendering it meaningless.  The two complaints directly oppose each other.

You should be required to actually do something to get to the end of any encounter.  It doesn't matter that you are on your 100th character or your 1st character.  It's their job to provide a solid game-play experience, and allowing a scenario where you can just skip past everything is just ridiculous.  Any new player experiencing that would simply laugh, wonder "what the hell is this", and move on to something else.

Edited July 31 by Diamaht

[DeannaVoyager]

9 hours ago, DarthNillard said:

Been playing this game since Beta, and ^^^ above is the first person I put on ignore.  Its actually impressive how badly you seem to be missing the point here, repeatedly, no matter how many people keep explaining things to you.  I guess if you're going to be wrong, be loud wrong 😹

Yeah, he keeps asking for arguments to support our point of view, but then ignores everything we say. Probably thinking our points don't exist if he doesn't acknowledge them. Kinda pointless to continue when someone is arguing on that level.

[KaoRocket]

49 minutes ago, Diamaht said:

@KaoRocket So by your logic all mobs ever created in the game should be skipable, because mobs are bad. 

Do you see how distorting an argument beyond reason to change the goal post of a discussion is a bit silly?

The point is, you can't argue on the one hand that you get no meaningful content, and on the other hand insist that you should be able to skip past nearly everything, thereby rendering it meaningless.  The two complaints directly oppose each other.

You should be required to actually do something to get to the end of any encounter.  It doesn't matter that you are on your 100th character or your 1st character.  It's their job to provide a solid game-play experience, and allowing a scenario where you can just skip past everything is just ridiculous.  Any new player experiencing that would simply laugh, wonder "what the hell is this", and move on to something else.

Look, I get what you mean but I think you are actually missing the point. No one here is arguing about the lack of content. It's about the design of content.

MOST mobs in the game should be skippable FOR THE 4 COMBAT STYLES DESIGNED FOR THIS. They were designed to move undetected. I don't mind some special mob here and there that pulls you out of stealth, there must be some kind of challenge, but when EVERY mob in a flashpoint is able to do that it's ridiculous. It's the design of the class (4 out of 16) vs the design of the environment.

Also "skippable content" is probably not the correct term. If you are right level and jump straight to Ossus without doing KOTFE/KOTET, that's when you skip the content. Avoiding getting detected by the mobs is not skipping the content, it's just playing through the content without engaging in fights you don't want to fight. It's about you deciding how you want to play.

I'm mostly solo/story player, for me, apart from the cutscenes, the most important thing is the atmosphere and immersion of the game. It means the mobs are a very good and important thing, they are part of the world. Here comes the choice of how I want to explore that world. My juggernaut is an unstoppable force destroying everything in his path. I play him being aware I can't avoid fighting and I'm fine with it because that's how this class works and it works well. My assassin is supposed to be a master of shadows sneaking around unaware enemies. I play him with the idea that I can choose whether I want to fight or not, explore or simply mock mobs for fun by staying in place to see how long it will take them to finally see me. Stealth makes the gameplay unique. If I'm being forced out of stealth all the time it breaks the immersion and makes my character's signature ability completely useless, not to mention that all the fun and freedom of playing this class just disappears. It's the opposite of "a solid gameplay experience".

"You should be required to actually do something to get to the end of any encounter." I was given the choice to be invisible and I took advantage of it. I still have to fight bosses, move through the entire map and complete the final objective. If I want to fight the mobs, I can, like any other class. But if I don't want to, I can too, and that's a privilege of only 4 classes in the game, one that shouldn't be taken away.

[Diamaht]

5 hours ago, KaoRocket said:

Look, I get what you mean but I think you are actually missing the point. No one here is arguing about the lack of content. It's about the design of content.

MOST mobs in the game should be skippable FOR THE 4 COMBAT STYLES DESIGNED FOR THIS. They were designed to move undetected. I don't mind some special mob here and there that pulls you out of stealth, there must be some kind of challenge, but when EVERY mob in a flashpoint is able to do that it's ridiculous. It's the design of the class (4 out of 16) vs the design of the environment.

Also "skippable content" is probably not the correct term. If you are right level and jump straight to Ossus without doing KOTFE/KOTET, that's when you skip the content. Avoiding getting detected by the mobs is not skipping the content, it's just playing through the content without engaging in fights you don't want to fight. It's about you deciding how you want to play.

I'm mostly solo/story player, for me, apart from the cutscenes, the most important thing is the atmosphere and immersion of the game. It means the mobs are a very good and important thing, they are part of the world. Here comes the choice of how I want to explore that world. My juggernaut is an unstoppable force destroying everything in his path. I play him being aware I can't avoid fighting and I'm fine with it because that's how this class works and it works well. My assassin is supposed to be a master of shadows sneaking around unaware enemies. I play him with the idea that I can choose whether I want to fight or not, explore or simply mock mobs for fun by staying in place to see how long it will take them to finally see me. Stealth makes the gameplay unique. If I'm being forced out of stealth all the time it breaks the immersion and makes my character's signature ability completely useless, not to mention that all the fun and freedom of playing this class just disappears. It's the opposite of "a solid gameplay experience".

"You should be required to actually do something to get to the end of any encounter." I was given the choice to be invisible and I took advantage of it. I still have to fight bosses, move through the entire map and complete the final objective. If I want to fight the mobs, I can, like any other class. But if I don't want to, I can too, and that's a privilege of only 4 classes in the game, one that shouldn't be taken away.

And that is where the disagreement comes in.  You are saying you should have the option to skip content, I'm saying no you should not be able to.

Having any class that can simply not do content invalidates all content and scews class selection towards the overpowered classes.

The arguments in this thread never get into what would make encounters more enjoyable, they focus exclusively on being able to not do them.  That's the issue.

[DarthNillard]

6 hours ago, KaoRocket said:

Look, I get what you mean but I think you are actually missing the point. No one here is arguing about the lack of content. It's about the design of content.

MOST mobs in the game should be skippable FOR THE 4 COMBAT STYLES DESIGNED FOR THIS. They were designed to move undetected. I don't mind some special mob here and there that pulls you out of stealth, there must be some kind of challenge, but when EVERY mob in a flashpoint is able to do that it's ridiculous. It's the design of the class (4 out of 16) vs the design of the environment.

Also "skippable content" is probably not the correct term. If you are right level and jump straight to Ossus without doing KOTFE/KOTET, that's when you skip the content. Avoiding getting detected by the mobs is not skipping the content, it's just playing through the content without engaging in fights you don't want to fight. It's about you deciding how you want to play.

I'm mostly solo/story player, for me, apart from the cutscenes, the most important thing is the atmosphere and immersion of the game. It means the mobs are a very good and important thing, they are part of the world. Here comes the choice of how I want to explore that world. My juggernaut is an unstoppable force destroying everything in his path. I play him being aware I can't avoid fighting and I'm fine with it because that's how this class works and it works well. My assassin is supposed to be a master of shadows sneaking around unaware enemies. I play him with the idea that I can choose whether I want to fight or not, explore or simply mock mobs for fun by staying in place to see how long it will take them to finally see me. Stealth makes the gameplay unique. If I'm being forced out of stealth all the time it breaks the immersion and makes my character's signature ability completely useless, not to mention that all the fun and freedom of playing this class just disappears. It's the opposite of "a solid gameplay experience".

"You should be required to actually do something to get to the end of any encounter." I was given the choice to be invisible and I took advantage of it. I still have to fight bosses, move through the entire map and complete the final objective. If I want to fight the mobs, I can, like any other class. But if I don't want to, I can too, and that's a privilege of only 4 classes in the game, one that shouldn't be taken away.

This is all perfectly said and expressed, but you are wasting your time. I've decided that other person is either a Biosword burner account or a bot (maybe both) 😭

[KaoRocket]

On 7/31/2024 at 5:52 PM, Diamaht said:

And that is where the disagreement comes in.  You are saying you should have the option to skip content, I'm saying no you should not be able to.

Having any class that can simply not do content invalidates all content and scews class selection towards the overpowered classes.

The arguments in this thread never get into what would make encounters more enjoyable, they focus exclusively on being able to not do them.  That's the issue.

I see that further discussion is pointless, so I will not continue it.

 

On 7/31/2024 at 6:11 PM, DarthNillard said:

This is all perfectly said and expressed, but you are wasting your time. I've decided that other person is either a Biosword burner account or a bot (maybe both) 😭

You could be right...