Potential damage output far too high

[meddani]

guys/girls, stop complaining. devs never gonna listen, this game entered maintenance mode for some time now, enjoy the rest of your time with this game before the inevitable shut down is happening in the near future.

[Wulfurkin]

26 minutes ago, AocaVII said:

The DPS output isn't high. That's ridiculous. Most of these players that play right now don't understand how to use defensives and how to use line of sight and everything else to do with survival.

They think it's PVE where you just stand in one spot and let the healer just heal you or I don't know what they're thinking but whatever they're thinking they're dying 5 to 10 times and if you heal it's impossible to keep them alive because they die too fast because they don't know what they're doing.

Oh yeah and another thing they run all over the map so you get uneven fights two versus five the three versus eight four versus eight three versus six and yeah when you make the numbers uneven like that and you're all over the map like running out in the wild it seems like the DPS is high when you're outnumbered but this is the players fault not the system. 

In comparison to many other games that I played ttk is very slow in this game if you know how to play.

I can't count the number of war zones I go into heal and people are just running all over the map and I can't heal them because they're too far away and yet they die and they're going to say oh the DPS is high you should Nerf this and Nerf that but it's not the it's not the other person it's you you're the problem. Stay where the healer is so you don't die.

Range classes shouldn't be taking over 2 or 3 million damage I see range classes taking 8 million damage standing and face tanking the whole other team. It's a players that don't know how to play it's not the classes or how they're balanced. 

The tanks look like they're doing a lot of DPS but they're not because the players can't do any DPS so the tanks out DPS the players because the players are bad. 

Also yeah the damage output is going to be very high when you have someone standing for 15 minutes clicking on something dying 15 times and not attacking anything. It's like a bunch of parse dummies in a war zone so yeah the DPS is going to look high.

 

If the majority of players are bad at the game as you claim logic would dictate that its the game itself that is to blame, or in this case the pvp aspect.

[Wulfurkin]

5 minutes ago, AocaVII said:

That makes total totally no sense at all so you're claiming that a bad game makes bad players how does that make any sense? 

Majority of players are bad because all the good players left because they never came out with any good new content for a PVP

No im saying the very high dps output and fast ttk makes it impossible for new players to get into the game since they will be in spawn most of the time.  This is a repeat of my first post though so wont go into it again.

[Wulfurkin]

1 hour ago, AocaVII said:

There's no point in even talking about this stuff because nothing's ever going to change it's been talked about for 12 years. I post here because the stuff I see here is just not reality so I have to sprinkle some reality into here to show people what the truth is.

Nothing that anyone can do can fix the fact that there are very good players and very bad players except the players themselves. 

It is what it is it's very bad PVP. Either you learn to make fun for yourself in it somehow or just don't play and unsub.

Perhaps if most veteran players were condescending elitists like you it doesnt deserve to be fixed. I like to think thats not the case though so ill keep trying to contribute ideas.

[supertimtaf]

2 hours ago, Wulfurkin said:

No im saying the very high dps output and fast ttk makes it impossible for new players to get into the game since they will be in spawn most of the time.

Big thing here is that the really fast TTK doesn't happen on all classes afaik. AP PT, Madness Sorc, Rage Jugg, burst Mara, Viru Sniper... Yeah those are what I'd call "fast TTK classes" but that's not the case on the rest of the dps classes. So I guess that the issue is not with the dps role as a whole but with only some classes who are being abused over and over by players then.

[Dyne-]

7 hours ago, Wulfurkin said:

Perhaps if most veteran players were condescending elitists like you it doesnt deserve to be fixed. I like to think thats not the case though so ill keep trying to contribute ideas.

Most people you meet who play this game are pretty chill. That said, there does exist a subset of PvPers that are absolutely cancerous. Even some on this forum who are typically helpful become completely unhinged when you start killing them on repeat in game. It's actually kind of funny to see the difference. Super helpful on the forums, but then they go login to their AP PTs / Engineering Snipers, group up with their buddies, and delete new players because their egos can't handle taking an L.

But I digress. You're getting pushback on here because your ideas are bad. Halving the damage dealt would make it impossible to kill guarded targets or put enough pressure on a healer that people on their team start dropping. Not to mention the unintended consequence of destroying the PvE experience completely.

Before anything else, understand that the primary challenge new PvPers face is an inherent lack of individual skill. Once you accept this reality you can look at PvP from a solution-oriented perspective. Aim to do something about your individual performance first. Learn from people here that are more than willing to point you in the right direction. You'll improve not only your own experience, but the experience of everyone else on your team.

The journey from FNG to competent PvPer should look something like this:

1. Max out your gear. You need best in slot gear + (at least 286) augments so you aren't at a disadvantage.
2. Practice dueling with a good player who plays the same class as you. You're competent when you have no fear and no doubt that you can solo 99% of the players that play the same class as you. (This includes ranked players).
3. Move on to dueling unlike classes. Fight each class until you fully understand what they can do and when. You should be able to put enough pressure on anyone that the addition of one more DPS player guarantees that they die. I really can't think of an exception here.
4. Practice fighting outnumbered. You shouldn't win against two elite DPS players, but you should be able to stall them. Try to maximize your uptime in uncomfortable situations. Get good at this and it's likely you'll be able to kill two or more unskilled players in PvP.
5. Learn how to use the environment to your advantage. Every class can do this, even melee. If you aren't doing this, you're wrong.
6. You should be able to do about 10-15k DPS in a warzone WHILE PLAYING THE OBJECTIVES. This is irrespective of your class (Yes, Mercs can do it to). Pure objective players struggle to come to terms with this.

Beyond that you need to fully understand map objectives, gameplay mechanics, team-based tactics, develop situational awareness, and master the supporting skills your class may have for your teammates (taunt, guard, push, pull), etc. There are nuances to PvP that separate the good from the great. Minimize your deficiencies so you can improve your experience. You're competing with people who have spent years putting in this type of work. If you don't improve, we'll continue to destroy you. 

 

 

[Wulfurkin]

6 hours ago, Dyne- said:

Most people you meet who play this game are pretty chill. That said, there does exist a subset of PvPers that are absolutely cancerous. Even some on this forum who are typically helpful become completely unhinged when you start killing them on repeat in game. It's actually kind of funny to see the difference. Super helpful on the forums, but then they go login to their AP PTs / Engineering Snipers, group up with their buddies, and delete new players because their egos can't handle taking an L.

But I digress. You're getting pushback on here because your ideas are bad. Halving the damage dealt would make it impossible to kill guarded targets or put enough pressure on a healer that people on their team start dropping. Not to mention the unintended consequence of destroying the PvE experience completely.

Before anything else, understand that the primary challenge new PvPers face is an inherent lack of individual skill. Once you accept this reality you can look at PvP from a solution-oriented perspective. Aim to do something about your individual performance first. Learn from people here that are more than willing to point you in the right direction. You'll improve not only your own experience, but the experience of everyone else on your team.

The journey from FNG to competent PvPer should look something like this:

1. Max out your gear. You need best in slot gear + (at least 286) augments so you aren't at a disadvantage.
2. Practice dueling with a good player who plays the same class as you. You're competent when you have no fear and no doubt that you can solo 99% of the players that play the same class as you. (This includes ranked players).
3. Move on to dueling unlike classes. Fight each class until you fully understand what they can do and when. You should be able to put enough pressure on anyone that the addition of one more DPS player guarantees that they die. I really can't think of an exception here.
4. Practice fighting outnumbered. You shouldn't win against two elite DPS players, but you should be able to stall them. Try to maximize your uptime in uncomfortable situations. Get good at this and it's likely you'll be able to kill two or more unskilled players in PvP.
5. Learn how to use the environment to your advantage. Every class can do this, even melee. If you aren't doing this, you're wrong.
6. You should be able to do about 10-15k DPS in a warzone WHILE PLAYING THE OBJECTIVES. This is irrespective of your class (Yes, Mercs can do it to). Pure objective players struggle to come to terms with this.

Beyond that you need to fully understand map objectives, gameplay mechanics, team-based tactics, develop situational awareness, and master the supporting skills your class may have for your teammates (taunt, guard, push, pull), etc. There are nuances to PvP that separate the good from the great. Minimize your deficiencies so you can improve your experience. You're competing with people who have spent years putting in this type of work. If you don't improve, we'll continue to destroy you. 

 

 

Mostly im already doing such things, except for the dueling part, cant say that appeals to me anymore. I used to do it a lot but with the high dps its become too stressful. As for being destroyed, i dont feel like that happens to me but it does depend on the match itself because they are often so lopsided. Some matches its just impossible to do anything, this is at least in part due to the high damage. Even if you think reducing damage isnt a good idea something has to be done to make matches more survivable. I know that if i were a new player trying pvp past 7.0 for the first time i wouldnt stick around long. Its fine to sum those things up you mentioned but it doesnt really add to what i was trying to say. The core issue isnt in player skill, thats the attitude im calling elitist.

[septru]

4 hours ago, Wulfurkin said:

The core issue isnt in player skill

Literally every single person in this thread disagrees with you. 

[Zunayson]

7 hours ago, Wulfurkin said:

The core issue isnt in player skill, thats the attitude im calling elitist.

I'm going to comment on most of the things you've said in this thread... even you agree the issue is player skill! The only elitism is perhaps those of us saying, "And that's a good thing." A good half or so of your complaints can be rounded to, "reduce the impact of player skill on performance" which is what that other poster quite humorously referred to as DEI gameplay, lol.

Quote

Most players dont know how to or simply cant generatie these numbers but there is a small elite clade running around that can and they are too decisive to a match because of it.

"elite player skill makes too decisive of a match"

Quote

I do agree that managing defensives helps but with such high damage it quickly loses its effectiveness.

Managing defensives is just as good on all characters, except, of course, that good players will manage defensives better than bad players. If DCD quickly loses its effectiveness and you still haven't won, it just means the combination of the other player's (DCD usage + rotation) is superior to yours. This is the impersonal "you," as you yourself explained, the issue is mainly that your teammates aren't very good.

Quote

I just thought maybe if players simply wouldnt hit so hard such matches wouldnt be such a slaughter.

Sure, if we took away rotations (or reduced rotation effectiveness) then good players wouldn't slaughter bad players quite as hard. Yes, good players would still beat bad players even if your changes were to be implemented, but of course, what you're suggesting is to reduce the impact of player skill on performance -- by approximately 50%, in fact.

Quote

One thing j hate about this is how it reduced the power of healers.  Full trinity arenas are basically won or lost by tank competence because guard is as overtuned as dps.

This is... OK criticism! It's a little weird for you to complain about tank competence (read: the impact of player skill), since the right way to phrase this is, "healing competence doesn't win the match" and that's true! Healers are the least impactful. That's because a massive portion of any players survivability is their own DCD usage and movement. I think this is a good thing. Healers should be the least impactful role. In fact, I have still lost trinity matches because of having a bad healer putting <50% of HPS of the enemy healer. This is all good! My team didn't deserve to win that match.

[sithBracer]

7 hours ago, Wulfurkin said:

Mostly im already doing such things, except for the dueling part, cant say that appeals to me anymore. I used to do it a lot but with the high dps its become too stressful. As for being destroyed, i dont feel like that happens to me but it does depend on the match itself because they are often so lopsided. Some matches its just impossible to do anything, this is at least in part due to the high damage. Even if you think reducing damage isnt a good idea something has to be done to make matches more survivable. I know that if i were a new player trying pvp past 7.0 for the first time i wouldnt stick around long. Its fine to sum those things up you mentioned but it doesnt really add to what i was trying to say. The core issue isnt in player skill, thats the attitude im calling elitist.

 

Dueling is too stressful for you? The thing you do for fun with your friends in a private SH that has no rankings, no scoreboard, no judgement and takes like 30 seconds to do is too stressful for you? omg, how do you live in this real world? Making a decision between which ketchup brand to buy must be heart attack inducing for you. I'm honestly scared to tell you about inflation because it might hospitalize you.

As for what you can do about player skill, there really isn't much honestly. If people want to get better they will get better. The issue started a long time ago when they made leveling up too easy, pretty much requiring you to just stand there and AoE and ignore anything else. It took years and many expansions to get here, so it's not something that will be fixed overnight. At this point, there aren't enough new players coming in to warrant an adjustment.

The best thing that can be done is to make gearing/augmenting as easy as possible to remove as many artificial barriers from pvp as possible, but no one on this board wants that. When augments didn't work at the beginning of 7.0, this entire board was complaining about bringing augments back because they wanted their artificial advantages as much as possible. I was literally the only one on the board begging BW to not bring back augments to PvP even though I was fully augmented. I wanted things to be as fair as possible even if it didn't benefit me. Before that people spent ages complaining on the forums about bolster wanting it removed for even the tiniest and more insignificant reasons. No one here wants actual balance, they just want their preferred class on top and to beat up on pugs.

[supertimtaf]

18 hours ago, AocaVII said:

Yeah the only problem with that is that I solo queue so I have to play strong classes/specs because if I play a class that's not so great and my whole team does 1k DPS each I'm not going to be able to do on a support class that can't kill things.

Eeeeeh
Ngl I don' t like this approach of "I need to play meta class to do anything" because that's not really true and only contributing to the power imbalance at that point. It's like saying "I need to use seismo grenades because the other bad players are using them too". But I digress !

 

2 hours ago, sithBracer said:

The best thing that can be done is to make gearing/augmenting as easy as possible to remove as many artificial barriers from pvp as possible, but no one on this board wants that.

I do want that tbh. It's why 4.0 was great. The barrier of entry was so minimal anyone could join and get full gear in a game or two. Gold augments were absolutely a terrible addition and it scared the devs so much that they didn't even bother updating crafting for 7.0 :') The good thing with the purple augments back then is that they were easy to craft, and so they also were really easy to buy and gear up. We lack that now with all the complicated bits and pieces required for everything. It's even worse now because you have to get legendaries (pain to get and unfun to grind btw), the right tactical as well... Yeaaah you see the issue.

And now we're in a state where the barrier of entry is high, and the difference between a fully kitted player and a beginner is massive, on top of not being solved fast enough for them to learn. They will get rolled for ten, twenty, thirty games and then they'll just quit to never play again, unable to learn because there's already that gear gap between them and the good players *before* even talking about the ludicrous skill gap that the game doesn't even try to adress from the leveling process.

[Wulfurkin]

3 hours ago, Zunayson said:

I'm going to comment on most of the things you've said in this thread... even you agree the issue is player skill! The only elitism is perhaps those of us saying, "And that's a good thing." A good half or so of your complaints can be rounded to, "reduce the impact of player skill on performance" which is what that other poster quite humorously referred to as DEI gameplay, lol.

"elite player skill makes too decisive of a match"

Managing defensives is just as good on all characters, except, of course, that good players will manage defensives better than bad players. If DCD quickly loses its effectiveness and you still haven't won, it just means the combination of the other player's (DCD usage + rotation) is superior to yours. This is the impersonal "you," as you yourself explained, the issue is mainly that your teammates aren't very good.

Sure, if we took away rotations (or reduced rotation effectiveness) then good players wouldn't slaughter bad players quite as hard. Yes, good players would still beat bad players even if your changes were to be implemented, but of course, what you're suggesting is to reduce the impact of player skill on performance -- by approximately 50%, in fact.

This is... OK criticism! It's a little weird for you to complain about tank competence (read: the impact of player skill), since the right way to phrase this is, "healing competence doesn't win the match" and that's true! Healers are the least impactful. That's because a massive portion of any players survivability is their own DCD usage and movement. I think this is a good thing. Healers should be the least impactful role. In fact, I have still lost trinity matches because of having a bad healer putting <50% of HPS of the enemy healer. This is all good! My team didn't deserve to win that match.

Think you and others here might have misunderstood me when i mentioned player skill. I never said it doesnt matter, in fact i agree there are too many bad players. The problem is they arent going to be competent just because we all want them to. When they step in they get pummeled over and over, then never come back. The barrier of entry is too high, this is made worse by the high damage, an argumented i started this thread with. I remember when i started playing pvp a couple of years ago on my old account i was mostly in midbies and underleveled i still felt like i was least keeping up. I remember i also died in solo content plenty of times which forced me to play better. The handful of times i joined a ranked pvp match i was outclassed by a longshot. Players who are now in 2024 starting the game for the first time will never experience such lessons. Id say right now there isnt a learning curve at all, its a brick wall that nobody is going to want to climb. If you dont want to lower the damage some kind of bracket system is needed, something based around the legacy. Not lowbies or midbies, these q's are dead due to the very fast leveling.

[sithBracer]

27 minutes ago, Wulfurkin said:

Think you and others here might have misunderstood me when i mentioned player skill. I never said it doesnt matter, in fact i agree there are too many bad players. The problem is they arent going to be competent just because we all want them to. When they step in they get pummeled over and over, then never come back. The barrier of entry is too high, this is made worse by the high damage, an argumented i started this thread with. I remember when i started playing pvp a couple of years ago on my old account i was mostly in midbies and underleveled i still felt like i was least keeping up. I remember i also died in solo content plenty of times which forced me to play better. The handful of times i joined a ranked pvp match i was outclassed by a longshot. Players who are now in 2024 starting the game for the first time will never experience such lessons. Id say right now there isnt a learning curve at all, its a brick wall that nobody is going to want to climb. If you dont want to lower the damage some kind of bracket system is needed, something based around the legacy. Not lowbies or midbies, these q's are dead due to the very fast leveling.

If you are worrying about new players leaving due to frustration, lowering the damage is the worst thing you can do. What will happen is, they will try PvP out, attack a tank or merc for 2 hours, see they are not doing any damage since it will easily be healed through, get bored and not come back.

New players don't care if they are dying or not. What will keep them in the game is if they see the stuff they are doing is somehow contributing. New players will be fine finishing the match with 2000dps as long as they scored some big hits and contributed to a kill. Even if they didn't actually contribute at all, as long as they feel like they did, they will come back and do it again. The worst thing for a new player is just sitting there hacking at something and feeling like they are not contributing at all and wasting their time. Lowering the damage will lead to this and it will not stop them from dying to a gank squad either.

I started PvP during the smash monkey era, where the TTK was MUCH lower than it is now. 2 smash monkeys could wipe entire teams in 2 GCDs. Did I die? Yes, many times. Did I come back? Yes, because even though I died over and over I felt like the things I did contributed to the overall game. That rush you get when you score your first big hit, when you help get your first kill, when you are healing and seeing your teammate survive while the others die, all of that will disappear with high ttk.

Like I said before, these problems are not issues that just popped up in 7.0. They have been building up over many years and expansions. There is no easy fix for this at this point, no matter how much we want there to be one. Fixing this will take years of effort and a lot of investment, and I seriously doubt broadsword is going to be doing that. Accept the game for what it is, it is not going to get any better. We are in maintenance mode, accept it and move on.

[Dyne-]

15 hours ago, Wulfurkin said:

Mostly im already doing such things, except for the dueling part, cant say that appeals to me anymore. I used to do it a lot but with the high dps its become too stressful. As for being destroyed, i dont feel like that happens to me but it does depend on the match itself because they are often so lopsided. Some matches its just impossible to do anything, this is at least in part due to the high damage. Even if you think reducing damage isnt a good idea something has to be done to make matches more survivable. I know that if i were a new player trying pvp past 7.0 for the first time i wouldnt stick around long. Its fine to sum those things up you mentioned but it doesnt really add to what i was trying to say. The core issue isnt in player skill, thats the attitude im calling elitist.

My intention was to correct you, not agree with you. The core issue is player skill. Voicing this truth is not an attempt on my part to be "elitist". I'm just being real about the situation and providing you with a rudimentary framework that could serve as your way out. What you choose to do with that information is up to you.

Bioware already tried to reduce the cognitive load new players were subjected to by stripping the game of the majority of its complexity. That was 6.X --> 7.X. People were also complaining about TTK being too high back then, and 7.X is the result. Now we have a rotation simulator, and you're suggesting that Biosword move the goal posts yet again in an attempt to cater to the lowest common denominator. 

Nah. Instead, consider that the amount of effort you're willing to invest to become one of the top performers on your class is too low. Removing abilities, making gear more accessible, squishing stats, bolstering, none of it is going to relieve new players of the burden of learning to operate in a dynamic environment. That is the true hurdle of PvP. Maximize your individual contribution first. Then and only then can we have a meaningful conversation about gearing, class balance, premade size, the matchmaking algorithm, hidden elo, etc. 

[Zunayson]

20 hours ago, Wulfurkin said:

Think you and others here might have misunderstood me when i mentioned player skill. I never said it doesnt matter, in fact i agree there are too many bad players. The problem is they arent going to be competent just because we all want them to. When they step in they get pummeled over and over, then never come back. The barrier of entry is too high, this is made worse by the high damage, an argumented i started this thread with. I remember when i started playing pvp a couple of years ago on my old account i was mostly in midbies and underleveled i still felt like i was least keeping up. I remember i also died in solo content plenty of times which forced me to play better. The handful of times i joined a ranked pvp match i was outclassed by a longshot. Players who are now in 2024 starting the game for the first time will never experience such lessons. Id say right now there isnt a learning curve at all, its a brick wall that nobody is going to want to climb. If you dont want to lower the damage some kind of bracket system is needed, something based around the legacy. Not lowbies or midbies, these q's are dead due to the very fast leveling.

You bring up good points here: new players booting up Lv80 pvp in 2024 are gonna have a bad time. You're right! It's because this game caters to ultra-casuals who want to role-play their own star wars story (read: move or tv show). This game does not cater to competitive gamers. Before you accuse me of having an elitist attitude, I will pre-empt it by saying: I am not being elitist; I am being factual. An elitist mindset is saying, "...and that's a bad thing."

At launch, this game merely catered to casuals, not ultra-casuals. The average 2011 endgame player had played far more SWTOR than the average 2024 endgame player has: They have killed more mobs, finished more quests, activated and read more tooltips about their class kits. In 2024, the average level 80 player is close to a lowbie. It has been a slow build up to this point over the years: 

• SWTOR focusing on solo story content instead of traditional MMO group play mechanics
• Disney Star Wars spreading as a cultural product instead of being a niche IP
• Rebalancing gameplay stats including companions and EXP stat gains
• Most content and marketing build around cash shop aesthetics instead of gameplay mechanics

All of these result in this game being a kind of interactive media experience, something very much unlike the MMOs of the past, and certainly unlike games of today like Overwatch.

To get back on topic: the game simply doesn't have the population (of veteran players) to keep pvp healthy, owing to the decisions over the game's life: postponing ranked warzone season 1, removing ranked warzones, removing ranked arenas, etc. If pvp seasons isn't enough to bribe new players to endure being repeatedly demolished, then warzones will simply be removed from the game (along with this forum's sub-section with the most threads and posts!)

[Ajalkaar]

On 6/14/2024 at 12:38 AM, Wulfurkin said:

Perhaps an uncommon view, but i feel like since version 7 the possible dps and total damage that can be done during a match is excessive. Most players dont know how to or simply cant generatie these numbers but there is a small elite clade running around that can and they are too decisive to a match because of it. I feel like at least halving the damage done by perfect rotations would make matches less lopsided. Thoughts?

So if I understand this right, you are complaining about players being good ?

I'll give you a secret...farming dmg is actually the easiest part of PvP you don't need to be a PvP god for that.

More seriously the problem is more on the other side the majority of the community doesn't even know how to do dmg.

I've stopped parsing my matches becauses it only make me mad when I see that I have 2 or  3 times the APM of my teammates.

How many times I've seen ppl struggling to kill one player in 3v1.

Edited June 26 by Ajalkaar

[Ajalkaar]

On 6/14/2024 at 1:06 AM, Wulfurkin said:

Small to the point where most warzones ive seen there will be two or three players who had basically double the numbers everyone else did. Even if they arent playing objectives this kind of difference decides the match. I do agree that managing defensives helps but with such high damage it quickly loses its effectiveness.

But what you are missing is that experienced players are playing with the same tools as other players. There's no secret build or hidden special gear for exeprienced players we're all playing the same game.

It's just about experience (skill) and to be honest you should aim for the same dmg output as these players instead of trying to complain about it. Try to learn and improve.

I can give you my discord if you need any advices in PvP and on how to effectively deal dmg

koppacabana

[Wulfurkin]

26 minutes ago, Ajalkaar said:

But what you are missing is that experienced players are playing with the same tools as other players. There's no secret build or hidden special gear for exeprienced players we're all playing the same game.

It's just about experience (skill) and to be honest you should aim for the same dmg output as these players instead of trying to complain about it. Try to learn and improve.

I can give you my discord if you need any advices in PvP and on how to effectively deal dmg

koppacabana

This isnt about me, im comfortable where i am with my competence in pvp. Im just tossing up ideas on how matches can be less lopsided.

Edited June 26 by Wulfurkin

[Ajalkaar]

Just now, Wulfurkin said:

This isnt about me, im comfortable where i am with my conpetence in pvp. Im just tossing up ideas on how matches can be less lopsided.

Then there's just one solution. Educating the PvP community and the new players so they can play better and do more dmg.

This is just the consequence of Biosword making the game more casual and removing all the competitive sides

[Ajalkaar]

On 6/16/2024 at 2:51 AM, Beyrahl said:

Anyway, everyone can get the idea but balancing is made a plague because there are too many nuances with tactical input, talents, and gear scaling. Sure they can adjust things but it'd just be swapping what class is fotm, which honestly I am fine with. But I think they just see it as why bother when it's functionally not possible to balance it. 

One solution would be to create exclusive tactics for each mode, PvP and PvE. Alternatively, separate systems could be implemented, similar to how it's done in WoW, where some abilities deal different amounts of damage in PvP, and certain effects are modified only for PvP.

However, these kinds of solutions aren't feasible with the current development resources Broadsword has.

[Ajalkaar]

23 minutes ago, AocaVII said:

The players can fix this. You have players that are fixated on DPS and HPS but you can do that plus win war zones. And in order for these newer players to learn you have to force them to lose every game so either of two things happens they stop playing or they learn.

All that's going on is that you are trading your high DPS to give them a free win so then what does the high DPS mean. It means absolutely nothing; it's pointless because you traded your DPS for their free win so it's not real DPS because you're not fighting people that are fighting you you're just fighting people that are standing there not attacking you.

It just seems to me people are set in their ways bad players just stay bad and players just fixated with numbers continue to be fixated with numbers and don't want to think outside the box and try to be constructive and fix what's wrong.

Like literally you can win the war zone and do the objectives you would lose 10% of your DPS or less but they're not willing to sacrifice that because they want to show off how good they are or how good they think they are. 

So by not changing we will continue to have horrendous war zones that are boring and just bizarre because people don't want to change. 

We could have good war zones where we have good fights but people just are too rigid they think only about the moment they don't think about the big picture and that's just the way that it is

I've talk about this mutiple times.

It's not that much about dmg farming but more about getting into fights. I've fun in PvP because I'm fighting other players not because I can afk to defend a pylone for 10min straight. Objective doesn't encourage fighting other players. That's the first point.

Second point is I've played this game for 10years now and I've done objectives thousands of times it just get boring at some point.

Third point, ppl are to bad to make me play objectives. Most of the time if I'm playing objectives it's very frustrating because I'm doing 2 times more work done compare to my teammates who can't even handle a single duel with a meta class.

Final point, there's no interseting reward to force me into doing the objectives and focusing on winrate. If it was ranked I would definitly play objectives but it's not so I'll just have my fun like douzens of other who think exactly like me.

At least when I'm focusingon the "PvP" part of PvP I try not to throw the objectives for my team most of the time

 

Edited June 26 by Ajalkaar

[Ajalkaar]

6 hours ago, AocaVII said:

The reward is better war zones

That's highly subjective. What you fail to understand is that for players like me who farmed PvP for years objectives are very unfun especially against and with unexpeirenced players wich is the case of 100% of matches nowadays.

Also this situation is not new, ppl were frag farming since PvP has been invented and has for swtor it hasn't been as much as an issue since 7.0. The reason is : too much player have left the game and the skill gap between players has drascticaly increased.

 

 

6 hours ago, AocaVII said:

There are people who are willing to stand at nodes and don't want to really PVP. It doesn't have to be you. Maybe sacrifice one out of every five war zones and guard a node. Is that really asking too much?

Of course they are, that's all they do nowadays this and picking up orbs. Because 90% are new or bad players are here only to complete the PvP season so they will try to avoid fighting the enemy team as much as possible. All matches are about 5 ppl in defense and nobody in offense unless they are forced to it. 

Sorry but if players were good at this game fraging would actually be helpful most of the time. And most of the time ppl lose their matches and have a bad time because players didn't know how to use a dcd's, they didn't do any dmg so they could kill the enemy when needed and they got absolutely farmed by randoms.

But it's easier to say that it's the experienced players ruining PvP because they do too much damage when 80% of the time we're more useful to the objectives than the average teamates that can't kill a single player to defend is point.

Edited June 27 by Ajalkaar

[Ajalkaar]

8 hours ago, AocaVII said:

they're not willing to sacrifice that because they want to show off how good they are or how good they think they are.

As I said it's not about ego, it's about fun.

[Wulfurkin]

12 hours ago, Ajalkaar said:

Then there's just one solution. Educating the PvP community and the new players so they can play better and do more dmg.

This is just the consequence of Biosword making the game more casual and removing all the competitive sides

I really dont see where the incentive is though. I mean i know i could still improve a lot, especially when i see the dmg some are able to do. There is just no reason to put in the effort required to join the elite. Something can be said for teaching new players the basics but thats where it ends. Very few are going to be able to be as decisive as some of these ex ranked players are. I dont see myself doing that and ive been at it in regs for years.

[Ajalkaar]

2 hours ago, Wulfurkin said:

I really dont see where the incentive is though. I mean i know i could still improve a lot, especially when i see the dmg some are able to do. There is just no reason to put in the effort required to join the elite. Something can be said for teaching new players the basics but thats where it ends. Very few are going to be able to be as decisive as some of these ex ranked players are. I dont see myself doing that and ive been at it in regs for years.

That's where you're wrong the players you are talking about aren't the "elite" of swtor most of them were just the average player back in the days. But since most good players left the game and a lot of new and unexperienced player join PvP thoses "average" players now seems good but they're not.

Being able to do dmg and survive a minimum in regs isn't hard and is far from what the real swtor elite can actually do in PvP

Most of them haven't set foot in ranked either

Same problem happens in PvE have you seen how many ppl can't get past 20k dps on nefra or dash NiM with 340+ gear.

The skill level is pretty low and it don't take that much effort to get better. Read guides, try to understand, read your abilities offensive and defensives, understand the basics of gearing; it's already enough to be better than 80% of the swtor community nowadays.

 

When you want to play chess or any other board game you want to learn the rules of the game and how each pieces work; the same goes for swtor or every mmo.

But if you don't want to make the initial effort, you can't ask the players, who have worked much harder than you to improve, to adapt and help you do what you can't do because you didn't put in the effort to get better.

So when I say 'you,' it's just to illustrate my point. Don't take it personally.

Because in the end, that's the problem: the 'bad' players focus on the objectives because they're not good at fragging, but since they still fail due to their inexperience in PvP, they end up blaming the more experienced players who went to frag. However, most of the time, the defeat is due to the incompetence of the inexperienced players.

Edited June 27 by Ajalkaar