Shayddow Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 If I had to choose between an AI voice and the KOTOR-style unvoiced, and bebopbebopy alien gibberish, I'd choose first - 1. AI 2. Kotor-style - I can live with it. 3. gibberish. - uck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skytake Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 AI could solve a lot, but in order to use AI they probably still need to buy the actors something to use their voices. I think that was partly where last years strike was about. I also don’t know what the mindset of the voice actors is. Imagine just recording a few lines for a game once every few years. You might not really be connected to the role anymore, maybe you’re not really interested anymore in doing the part. Then again maybe they love doing it and are waiting by the phone for the next expansion, who knows. I’m not a fan of using the kotor style. I love this game because of the dialogue, but I can understand that paying 16 actors, plus any relevant companions, plus any NPC actor for every story expansion is a lot of money. So I hope that the funds for the actors is still there and the game doesn’t fully lose one of its most attractive traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 NO AI! That will kill the game. It's the root cause the Strike that got us into the Voss Kessian mess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzsi Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, JakRoanin said: NO AI! That will kill the game. It's the root cause the Strike that got us into the Voss Kessian mess! Depends on how its done. If they ask the actors and pay them, that's fine. Especially if availability is the issue with some. If they just do it without permission, those actors are never coming back again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Well, I wish it wasn't more complicated but it is. According to the information I've researched many powerful members of SAG are furious that there was ANY AI allowed at all in the new deal and in the next quarter are going to push back hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrontLineFodder Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I've had some thoughts on using AI for voice acting in the past. I agree with the Voice actors being paid though. I have no knowledge of how VA contracts are handled yesterday/today or tomorrow, but: My thoughts along the lines of using AI were The Voice Actor is paid for each character they are performing They are paid for lines to train the AI to speak for that character They are paid a royalty for each line / word that AI says as the character There is a death clause allowing that character to live on, performed by the AI There is a retainment clause, the voice actor must make themselves available for retraining / rerecording lines. I assume this sort of thing is in place allowing the original VA's to continue (e.g. Kira/Laura) If there is no flexibility then AI will just dominate and VA will die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Like I said before it's extremely complex. I am not a person who thinks AI is automatically bad. However, it is dangerous to numerous industries. The entertainment industry isn't just about actors. It's about the people who make the equipment, Camera's Microphones, Lights, Speakers. It's about the Costumers, and the Craft Services (Catering who spend their entire businesses providing food to entire productions) its the electricians and the people that keep the equipment running. Take the Actors out and the dominoes fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzsi Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 43 minutes ago, JakRoanin said: Like I said before it's extremely complex. I am not a person who thinks AI is automatically bad. However, it is dangerous to numerous industries. The entertainment industry isn't just about actors. It's about the people who make the equipment, Camera's Microphones, Lights, Speakers. It's about the Costumers, and the Craft Services (Catering who spend their entire businesses providing food to entire productions) its the electricians and the people that keep the equipment running. Take the Actors out and the dominoes fall. Other than equipment a lot of that isn't used as widly anymore since covid. Most VAs setup their own home studios to record from and don't even need/use studios anymore. A few places demand it again but many don't and it's gotta be easier than travelling all over just to record a few lines. Not to mention cheaper given the cost of recording studios vrs at home studios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) <sigh> That's not the point the Actors who are members of SAG need to abide by union rules. If IF the union says "We will not accept any projects with AI," That's IT! The whole issue with AI isn't just about this game. It's about what Actors who are SAG members, (remember it's an international union) and the VA's of SWTOR are members they have to abide by SGA rules! When SAG went on strike, BROADWAY shut down, VA's sat out. Some members stopped doing interviews with NEWS organizations. They did it in large part because of AI. Edited February 20 by JakRoanin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzsi Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Thats a big if though. If the rules aren't in place *yet* one would assume for the moment, its each actors individual choice until they are. Maybe some don't wanna go near it just incase, and that's understandable, maybe some do. Only way to know is to ask, right? Hopefully when rules are properly established they'll be setup in a way that benifits everyone though, VAs, AI developers and game developers all. That's all we can hope 🤞. That they can find that happy spot that works for all. Such as exceptions for lack of availability on longer term projects and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I'm just pointing out that the reason the last two updates had unusual breaks in VA are because of a very complex situation that has nothing to do with BroadSword or the Dev Team. I also hope to get across that if this game ever decides to use AI VA it won't save the day. And I've read a lot of Trade Articles to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzsi Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, JakRoanin said: I'm just pointing out that the reason the last two updates had unusual breaks in VA are because of a very complex situation that has nothing to do with BroadSword or the Dev Team. I also hope to get across that if this game ever decides to use AI VA it won't save the day. And I've read a lot of Trade Articles to know. I was just thinking if some of the bigger names are costing too much, would it be worthwhile recasting some? For me I'd rather voiced over not voiced and as much as I love some of the actors and would hate them having to be changed, I'd still rather that than no story or unvoiced story if it came to that. 11 years is a long time. In TV shows actors often come and go during that time. Realistically it's a long time to expect one actor to stick around for, especially with the drop in popularity. I'd still rather the game go on and to be able to hear my characters emotions etc even if it has to be a different voice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I dont care for the KOTOR style dialoge either; but that is a silly reason to quit the game if you love it the way you said you do. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrico Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 13 minutes ago, kirorx said: I dont care for the KOTOR style dialoge either; but that is a silly reason to quit the game if you love it the way you said you do. is it? if story going forward is mute (or kotor style) that is a pretty big pill to swallow. Voice acting/story was 90% of this game. We already get less content etc. This would be the end for me as well. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traceguy Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 9 hours ago, FrontLineFodder said: There is a death clause allowing that character to live on, performed by the AI There is a retainment clause, the voice actor must make themselves available for retraining / rerecording lines Seeing as the voice actor for the male bounty hunter is 73 years old, they're going to need some kind of contingency plan, if they plan on keeping his character voiced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Another thing to consider is that VA's even the best of the best ie Kevin Conroy, aren't paid as much as most people think. In fact, the majority of actors, even on popular TV, Theater, and movie productions aren't paid as much as people think. Not all actors are multi-millionaires with mansions, 100000$ cars, and private planes. VERY FEW actors have that comparitively speaking, and certainly not VA's. No, Mark Hamil isn't applicable to this case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traceguy Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 39 minutes ago, JakRoanin said: Another thing to consider is that VA's even the best of the best ie Kevin Conroy, aren't paid as much as most people think. In fact, the majority of actors, even on popular TV, Theater, and movie productions aren't paid as much as people think. Not all actors are multi-millionaires with mansions, 100000$ cars, and private planes. VERY FEW actors have that comparitively speaking, and certainly not VA's. No, Mark Hamil isn't applicable to this case. I'd assume even Mark Hamill is affordable due to some of his appearances in cartoons. I think I counted 77 different characters in Regular Show https://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/Mark-Hamill/ When the devs release an expansion these days, it's like 50% voiced and 50% unvoiced. Strikes aside--My guess is they haven't even finished the content before getting the actors in recording booths. When it comes to paying pay Voice Actors, I'd say it's most likely not the reason why BW/BS is struggling. Since the VA's aren't even full time BW/BS/EA employees, they are the least to be concerned with as far as payroll goes. The game's software engineers are likely being paid more per week. Edited February 20 by Traceguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I referred to Mr. Hamil's average prestige and the prices he would be able to command in comparison to Troy Baker or Jennifer Hale. My point is exactly yours the price of paying VA's in every available language is the LEAST expensive part of this game. Changing VA's, or AI will do nothing but more harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzsi Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 4 hours ago, Traceguy said: I'd assume even Mark Hamill is affordable due to some of his appearances in cartoons. I think I counted 77 different characters in Regular Show https://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/Mark-Hamill/ When the devs release an expansion these days, it's like 50% voiced and 50% unvoiced. Strikes aside--My guess is they haven't even finished the content before getting the actors in recording booths. When it comes to paying pay Voice Actors, I'd say it's most likely not the reason why BW/BS is struggling. Since the VA's aren't even full time BW/BS/EA employees, they are the least to be concerned with as far as payroll goes. The game's software engineers are likely being paid more per week. Recording studios and moving actors around is what costs the big $$ usually. If they aren't already doing it, they should be getting them to record from home since most set that up during covid. Recording studios can be crazy expensive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 <sigh> I'm sorry that's just not true. The R4 OP @KeithKanneg (PLEASE FIX STORY MODE) is much more expensive than the VA's. Your assertion that they should just work at home is not the answer. Building home recording studios cuts into their personal income. Also, why should they be responsible for the construction of soundproofing and equipment upkeep. Also don't they have a right to keep work and home separate? Not all VA's have the resources or desire to work from home! People have to stop blaming the VA as a financial drain on the game it is notQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzsi Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, JakRoanin said: <sigh> I'm sorry that's just not true. The R4 OP @KeithKanneg (PLEASE FIX STORY MODE) is much more expensive than the VA's. Your assertion that they should just work at home is not the answer. Building home recording studios cuts into their personal income. Also, why should they be responsible for the construction of soundproofing and equipment upkeep. Also don't they have a right to keep work and home separate? Not all VA's have the resources or desire to work from home! People have to stop blaming the VA as a financial drain on the game it is notQ If you add in flight costs, accommodation and the recording studio it adds up fast, especially if its only for an hour or two of work (sometimes even less). Either the game company or the VAs have to foot that bill. Many VAs have the setups already 1) from covid 2) because they stream or create other online content. There's no reason not to utilise that for those who do. Many would even prefer that to a couple of days away from their families for a little bit of work, or because it lets them do even more work if they don't have travel taking up time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) Yes some do but not all! Remember the LiveStream where Rass Ordo's VA said it was extremely expensive to soundproof his little space. Did BioWare pay for it? NO! You're counting on a cost cut that isn't there. To make that money back VA's need higher paychecks or more work. Edited February 20 by JakRoanin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzsi Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 3 minutes ago, JakRoanin said: Yes some do but not all! Remember the LiveStream where Rass Ordo's VA said it was extremely expensive to soundproof his little space. Did BioWare pay for it? NO! You're counting on a cost cut that isn't there. To make that money back VA's need higher paychecks or more work. Maybe I should have bolded the part that says for those who do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 For those who do it might be a feasible option. However, even the best home studio won't top a professional one, and to have a professional recording studio at home you have to be mega rich like, Martina McBride or P. Diddy rich. Your expectations are just too high. The VA's working from home won't save as much as you think because VA is the least expensive part of the production! What would actually cut costs is what they're already doing. Reusing planets and updating graphics. Like in Kessian's landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzsi Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 If VAs arent such a big deal, why are they tossing us unvoiced lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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