What does it take to get Broadsword to remember that GSF exists?

[DakhathKilrathi]

Not that I mind watching the same people have the same conversations for months on end over in the GSF category, but it's been clear for quite a while now that the minigame needs at least a little dev attention, and we're not asking for a lot: either do something about people intentionally self destructing or leeching all day every day, or fix the vote kick system so we can take care of it ourselves. 

This has been brought up over in the GSF section frequently for uh... months now? Months now. So I can say with some certainty that either no one checks there, or we're not important enough to respond to. I also know that people have been reporting the players responsible, at least for the self destructing/throwing games. The same people are at it, so presumably the reports are not acted on.  I get that dev time is limited; we really are only asking for things to be playable. 

Every time we bring it up anywhere though the thread gets moved, so uh.... whoever moves this thread, can you at least pass the question along? Thanks. 

Edit: and to be ultra extra clear here: the only change needed to vote kick is for self destructs and/or respawning not to reset the "not contributing" timer. Dying shouldn't reset that timer anyway; that's silly. Dying doesn't contribute. 

Edit 2: This is a problem that has been ongoing for literal years, btw. Sometimes it's worse than others but I personally have video dating back to 2016 of this behavior in play. There actually isn't any excuse for it to still be a problem we're dealing with in 2024. 

Edited February 21 by DakhathKilrathi

[Nee-Elder]

3 hours ago, DakhathKilrathi said:

This has been brought up over in the GSF section frequently for uh... months now? Months now.

uhh months?!   Try YEARS.   Literally since ohh i dunno 2020 or so, every post i ever AT to  @KeithKanneg &  @EricMusco  i've  critically but cordially  asked them about GSF.

And every single time they've ignored me. ( and others )

With one notable exception here:  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/929314-pts-gsf-added-to-pvp-season-3-track/    ....which was of course then predictably  REVERSED days later faster than a strafing Gunboat hiding LOS within space wreckage --> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/929314-pts-gsf-added-to-pvp-season-3-track/?do=findComment&comment=9757696  because of,  you guessed it,  them realizing how much GSF needs attention!  ( irony or _____ ? )

The 1st word of   'Star Wars'  has been severly lacking from this game since like 2017.

Why would you think anything will change now?

If EA actually cared about us pilots, they would've made  'SW:Squadrons'  a legit SPACE expansion  for SWTOR, with Player Crafting & Cartel Market  combo'd for shipbuilding & cosmetic$ .

3 hours ago, DakhathKilrathi said:

Every time we bring it up anywhere though the thread gets moved, so uh.... whoever moves this thread, can you at least pass the question along?

FYI ,  forum Moderators  have  ZERO impact on game development.

Their job, and input, is confined to the forums only.

[Toraak]

Well said OP. I know I'm sick and tired of people sabotaging matches. It's making me queu far less, and enjoy swtor a lot less then I used. to.

Edited February 13 by Toraak

[Darkestmonty]

I've been known to self destruct in a few cases.

I'm a great pilot but have horrible aim. There have been times I am running around a death match slowly repairing, avoiding dying but not able to actually hit a target. When the notice of not participating shows up I self destruct to cancel it.

Same thing on satellites. If I am attacking a satellite I can pretty easily keep that satellite contested unless a few of the better pilots shows up. I'll take damage but not actually be able to land any hits especially if I am not a mid/long range hit and run build. There have been plenty of times I am the only one keeping a satellite contested but when the notice of not participating shows up I again self destruct to cancel it.

There have been games where I am doing great, it's a hard death match. I get 5 kills before I am finally killed. I look up and notice the score is 5 to 20. I have gotten 5 kills while my team has gotten 0 but in that time they have died 20 times. One sided games like this are very common and there is absolutely no way I can make up for a team that can not even get a single kill in 20 deaths.

I'll end the game by self destructing continuously because there is no chance at winning and there is no reward for dragging the game out.

If GSF games were more balanced then maybe self destructing wouldn't be an issue. If GSF dailies and weeklies were about earning medals and not win/loss, maybe people would try to actually play instead of going AFK on a satellite for the whole game or self destructing to end an already lost game.

But, like normal PvP, GSF is set for dailies and weeklies to only count win/loss. There is no reward or benefit for people to get better with that system or to try when the game is a guaranteed loss. The devs want that system of win/loss the players will exploit that system to the fullest.

If you want to kick people for self destructing, I understand. But that won't fix the core issue of why people are self destructing and instead of self destructing people will start flying in the middle of the enemy and letting themselves get killed. Then what? Start banning players who are killed by the enemy too many times?

The core issue is daily and weekly missions encourage people to self destruct instead of participating.

Edited February 13 by Darkestmonty

[DakhathKilrathi]

5 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

I'll end the game by self destructing continuously because there is no chance at winning and there is no reward for dragging the game out.

 

I have personally overcome a fifteen point deficit on several occasions. I can't do that if someone on my team is throwing on purpose. Please don't. 

[Darkestmonty]

5 minutes ago, DakhathKilrathi said:

I have personally overcome a fifteen point deficit on several occasions. I can't do that if someone on my team is throwing on purpose. Please don't. 

where do you think those 20 deaths came from? They usually come from new pilots getting dogged by vets and others noticing the game is over and self destructing. I'm not dragging out a game that is already over. Same goes for normal PvP but at least there I can just AFK and let them play DEATH MATCH!! while they ignoring every objective in the warzone.

As long as GSF and PvP are win/loss only, people will continue to ignore objectives and end games as quickly as possible especially if that game is already lost.

Edited February 13 by Darkestmonty

[Toraak]

3 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

where do you think those 20 deaths came from? They usually come from new pilots getting dogged by vets and others noticing the game is over and self destructing. I'm not dragging out a game that is already over. Same goes for normal PvP but at least there I can just AFK and let them play DEATH MATCH!! while they ignoring every objective in the warzone.

As long as GSF and PvP are win/loss only, people will continue to ignore objectives and end games as quickly as possible especially if that game is already lost.

I've overcome 15 point deficits as well. Where there were 0 Self Destructor's on either side. So Please stop. Nothing is over until the scoreboard appears.

 

Also seen match where teams are down 400 points in a Domination match (and 3 capped) and come back to win. So just assuming the match is over is a poor choice.

Edited February 13 by Toraak

[Darkestmonty]

29 minutes ago, Toraak said:

I've overcome 15 point deficits as well. Where there were 0 Self Destructor's on either side. So Please stop. Nothing is over until the scoreboard appears.

 

Also seen match where teams are down 400 points in a Domination match (and 3 capped) and come back to win. So just assuming the match is over is a poor choice.

There are no rewards for earning multiple medals, playing the objectives, or being smart. Players only advance the weekly based on a win or loss, it doesn't matter how well or how poorly you played. It's more efficient time wise to end a game quickly than drag the game out so it lasts 50% to 100% longer on the slim chance you will carry your team who can't get a single kill to victory.

You want to suggest ways of punishing players into playing the way you want, which may work for a small portion of the players but it won't fix the actual issue. What you should be doing is figuring out a way to encourage players so they want to play instead of giving up.

Maybe... win/loss means less than earning medals and playing well when it comes to completing dailies and weeklies... like Galactic Season where the conquest objectives are to earn medals and not to win/lose games.

Edited February 13 by Darkestmonty

[DakhathKilrathi]

That someone in this thread is seriously defending their decision to lose on purpose is why we need a developer solution, here. Clearly there is no convincing players who do it, so the game needs to actively discourage it by letting us kick the people who do it. 

Edited February 14 by DakhathKilrathi

[Darkestmonty]

1 hour ago, DakhathKilrathi said:

That someone in this thread is seriously defending their decision to lose on purpose is why we need a developer solution, here. Clearly there is no convincing players who do it, so the game needs to actively discourage it by letting us kick the people who do it. 

not while the daily and weeklies only care if there is a win or a loss.

I'm not unique in my viewpoint, but instead of trying to fix the issue, poor game design, you want to punish players and force them into playing like you want or make fun of them.

lets play this out as if the devs take your suggestion.

Self destructing no longer resets the kick timer.

That can work, sure a few legitimate players who have a hard time landing shots but are good at avoiding being killed will be kicked, but you fixed the self destructing problem right?

Wrong, now players wanting to end the game will fly straight at enemies and let themselves be destroyed. They don't even have to fire a shot and can stop flying once the enemy gets close for an quicker death.

New rule: those who die too many times without hitting enemies will be kicked.

That can work, sure a lot of new players will be kicked constantly in GSF as they have a hard time hitting enemies and avoiding death, but you fixed the problem of players allowing themselves to die?

Wrong, now players will use a scout ship with an AOE attack like EMP Field to hit enemies once before they get shot down.

New rule: EMP Field no longer counts as an attack to reset the kick timer.

That can work, I'm sure nothing bad will happen when you start eliminating certain attacks from resetting the kick timer...

 

The problem is not self destructing or the kick timer. The problem is that the current reason why a lot of people play GSF and PvP is to earn tech frags and conquest points and the fastest way to complete these dailies and weeklies is to rotate games as quickly as possible. Win or lose does not matter because the majority of players can not single handedly win GSF or PvP on their own.

Change the parameters for completing dailies and weeklies to a participation based system like earning medals instead of win or loss and people who self destruct won't earn any points for completing dailies and weeklies. They have to participate and will be rewarded for participation if they want to complete missions.

I'm all for eliminating the need to self destruct games you are guaranteed to lose, but I and many others will only change once there is a system to reward players for participation instead of simply existing and ending games as quickly as possible.

Edited February 13 by Darkestmonty

[Toraak]

1 hour ago, Darkestmonty said:

not while the daily and weeklies only care if there is a win or a loss.

I'm not unique in my viewpoint, but instead of trying to fix the issue, poor game design, you want to punish players and force them into playing like you want or make fun of them.

lets play this out as if the devs take your suggestion.

Self destructing no longer resets the kick timer.

That can work, sure a few legitimate players who have a hard time landing shots but are good at avoiding being killed will be kicked, but you fixed the self destructing problem right?

Wrong, now players wanting to end the game will fly straight at enemies and let themselves be destroyed. They don't even have to fire a shot and can stop flying once the enemy gets close for an quicker death.

New rule: those who die too many times without hitting enemies will be kicked.

That can work, sure a lot of new players will be kicked constantly in GSF as they have a hard time hitting enemies and avoiding death, but you fixed the problem of players allowing themselves to die?

Wrong, now players will use a scout ship with an AOE attack like EMP Field to hit enemies once before they get shot down.

New rule: EMP Field no longer counts as an attack to reset the kick timer.

That can work, I'm sure nothing bad will happen when you start eliminating certain attacks from resetting the kick timer...

 

The problem is not self destructing or the kick timer. The problem is that the current reason why a lot of people play GSF and PvP is to earn tech frags and conquest points and the fastest way to complete these dailies and weeklies is to rotate games as quickly as possible. Win or lose does not matter because the majority of players can not single handedly win GSF or PvP on their own.

Change the parameters for completing dailies and weeklies to a participation based system like earning medals instead of win or loss and people who self destruct won't earn any points for completing dailies and weeklies. They have to participate and will be rewarded for participation if they want to complete missions.

I'm all for eliminating the need to self destruct games you are guaranteed to lose, but I and many others will only change once there is a system to reward players for participation instead of simply existing and ending games as quickly as possible.

I'm sorry, but your making a terrible excuse for poor behavior. 

 

If your playing the game, then actually PLAY it. Your choosing to sabotage matches isn't actually playing the game, but ruining it for others. Such behavior should be punished. If you don't want to actually play the game mode, then don't. Playing something your not having enjoyment at, whether it's a bad matchmaker for you or a map you dislike you have options. Leave the match. Hit the escape key, and exit battle, don't ruin it for others who may want to actually play the game to win.

 

well While I would like to avoid this solution I did ask in a post on the GSF forums. If the problem truly is tech frags, then remove them from the daily/weekly. People will still queu for conquest, or because they like GSF, but that way we'll get rid of the toxic players sabotaging matches.

Edited February 13 by Toraak

[DakhathKilrathi]

1 hour ago, Darkestmonty said:

Self destructing no longer resets the kick timer.

That can work, sure a few legitimate players who have a hard time landing shots but are good at avoiding being killed will be kicked, but you fixed the self destructing problem right?

Wrong, now players wanting to end the game will fly straight at enemies and let themselves be destroyed.

easy: 

 

8 hours ago, DakhathKilrathi said:

Dying shouldn't reset that timer anyway; that's silly. Dying doesn't contribute. 

make it so deaths don't reset it, problem solved, participation rewarded. maybe fix it so being in capture range of any satellite counts as "contributing" so people who can't aim but are trying won't get kicked 

[Darkestmonty]

1 hour ago, Toraak said:

I'm sorry, but your making a terrible excuse for poor behavior. 

 

If your playing the game, then actually PLAY it. Your choosing to sabotage matches isn't actually playing the game, but ruining it for others. Such behavior should be punished. If you don't want to actually play the game mode, then don't. Playing something your not having enjoyment at, whether it's a bad matchmaker for you or a map you dislike you have options. Leave the match. Hit the escape key, and exit battle, don't ruin it for others who may want to actually play the game to win.

 

well While I would like to avoid this solution I did ask in a post on the GSF forums. If the problem truly is tech frags, then remove them from the daily/weekly. People will still queu for conquest, or because they like GSF, but that way we'll get rid of the toxic players sabotaging matches.

AFKing and self destructing is not against the TOS and the devs don't seem to care about eliminating non participation in PvP.

You can either make suggestions to punish players who don't play the way you want and call them names while trying to shame them (won't work on me) or understand why players are AFKing and self destructing and figure out a way to encourage them to actually participate to accomplish their goals (finishing dailies and weeklies).

  

56 minutes ago, DakhathKilrathi said:

easy: 

 

make it so deaths don't reset it, problem solved, participation rewarded. maybe fix it so being in capture range of any satellite counts as "contributing" so people who can't aim but are trying won't get kicked 

which is fine but a lot of new players will be continuously kicked out of every game until they are locked out and stop bothering to queue at all. This is already happening to newish players who can't aim well but are able to avoiding dying. Your rule makes it worse for any new player that has a hard time landing hits but also dies a lot.

Easy fix? Easy way to stop new players from bothering with GSF at all.

 

Get rid of the Win/Loss requirement for dailies and weeklies and start counting medals like Galactic Season. You won't have to enforce kick timers because people who do not participate will not progress dailies and weeklies. New players will have a harder time finishing dailies and weeklies at the start but at least they won't be kicked for being bad at the game. Once players understand what they are doing they can actually finish their dailies and weeklies faster (hopefully unless the devs make earning medals unbearable) than the current system which only counts wins and losses.

No matter what the game play loop is, the majority of players will take the easiest and quickest route to their goal. Herd players into participating, scaring or punishing them into participation does not work.

Edited February 13 by Darkestmonty

[Toraak]

1 hour ago, Darkestmonty said:

AFKing and self destructing is not against the TOS and the devs don't seem to care about eliminating non participation in PvP.

You can either make suggestions to punish players who don't play the way you want and call them names while trying to shame them (won't work on me) or understand why players are AFKing and self destructing and figure out a way to encourage them to actually participate to accomplish their goals (finishing dailies and weeklies).

  

which is fine but a lot of new players will be continuously kicked out of every game until they are locked out and stop bothering to queue at all. This is already happening to newish players who can't aim well but are able to avoiding dying. Your rule makes it worse for any new player that has a hard time landing hits but also dies a lot.

Easy fix? Easy way to stop new players from bothering with GSF at all.

 

Get rid of the Win/Loss requirement for dailies and weeklies and start counting medals like Galactic Season. You won't have to enforce kick timers because people who do not participate will not progress dailies and weeklies. New players will have a harder time finishing dailies and weeklies at the start but at least they won't be kicked for being bad at the game. Once players understand what they are doing they can actually finish their dailies and weeklies faster (hopefully unless the devs make earning medals unbearable) than the current system which only counts wins and losses.

No matter what the game play loop is, the majority of players will take the easiest and quickest route to their goal. Herd players into participating, scaring or punishing them into participation does not work.

Medal counts don't work either. As proven during Galactic Season's. Get a Domination match. 7 people all go to the same node, and afk for defender medals. That's not participation either.

[DakhathKilrathi]

19 minutes ago, Toraak said:

Medal counts don't work either. As proven during Galactic Season's. Get a Domination match. 7 people all go to the same node, and afk for defender medals. That's not participation either.

They also intentionally SD to end TDM since they're not able to AFK medals in TDM, leaving us with the problem we already have and want to solve. 

[Darkestmonty]

32 minutes ago, Toraak said:

Medal counts don't work either. As proven during Galactic Season's. Get a Domination match. 7 people all go to the same node, and afk for defender medals. That's not participation either.

what's better, a bunch of defenders on one satellite or a bunch of self destructors in every match.

Medals in GSF need to be reworked anyway. There needs to be medals for resupplying team mates, healing team mates, landing hits on enemies, etc. Current medal acquisition is out of date.

It's just like in PvP, would you rather people AFKing on a node you control and acting as bait for the enemies or would you rather a bunch of AFKers hiding in every corner of the map avoiding all combat?

Medals aren't a perfect fix for every issue with participation but it is an improvement. Moving to participation/earning medals as a way to complete dailies and weeklies is an improvement over the current situation which rewards people for ending matches as quickly as possible win or loss.

 

12 minutes ago, DakhathKilrathi said:

They also intentionally SD to end TDM since they're not able to AFK medals in TDM, leaving us with the problem we already have and want to solve. 

right, but if earning medals were the way to complete dailies and weeklies self destructing is less beneficial than actually participating in the game since they would receive zero advancement self destructing the whole match.

Edited February 14 by Darkestmonty

[Ramalina]

39 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

what's better, a bunch of defenders on one satellite or a bunch of self destructors in every match.

Medals in GSF need to be reworked anyway. There needs to be medals for resupplying team mates, healing team mates, landing hits on enemies, etc. Current medal acquisition is out of date.

Those medals already exist and are properly awarded.  The scoreboard doesn't show medals, and the legacy achievements don't do a great job of explaining medals, but the medals system works fine and registers almost all easily measurable aspects of good GSF play.

 

I'll also point out that there is no factor that influences match outcomes more than skilled play.   Throwing games just guarantees that you will likely have to play 1.5 to 2 times as many games to finish the daily and weekly, and SDs don't accelerate game outcomes enough to overcome that penalty in most cases, even in TDMs.   From an optimization standpoint you're better off just finding a quiet asteroid to chill out near, and either dropping a healing beacon, or taking the occasional potshot at strays with a gunship.   When the non-participation timer chimes in, charge into the fray and lob a torpedo, if it hits, run back to you spot, if not just plink at things until you hit or get shot down.   Minimum effort, no real skill required, you don't piss other players off, and there's a reasonable chance that the rest of your team might be able to carry you to victory.  It's win-win.

[Darkestmonty]

33 minutes ago, Ramalina said:

Those medals already exist and are properly awarded.  The scoreboard doesn't show medals, and the legacy achievements don't do a great job of explaining medals, but the medals system works fine and registers almost all easily measurable aspects of good GSF play.

 

I'll also point out that there is no factor that influences match outcomes more than skilled play.   Throwing games just guarantees that you will likely have to play 1.5 to 2 times as many games to finish the daily and weekly, and SDs don't accelerate game outcomes enough to overcome that penalty in most cases, even in TDMs.   From an optimization standpoint you're better off just finding a quiet asteroid to chill out near, and either dropping a healing beacon, or taking the occasional potshot at strays with a gunship.   When the non-participation timer chimes in, charge into the fray and lob a torpedo, if it hits, run back to you spot, if not just plink at things until you hit or get shot down.   Minimum effort, no real skill required, you don't piss other players off, and there's a reasonable chance that the rest of your team might be able to carry you to victory.  It's win-win.

currently, when you notice your team is losing by 3 to 4 times the points, the fastest way to finish dailies and weeklies is self destructing. Part of this comes from seeing your team mates self destructing at the start of the match or being on a team full of new players that don't even know how to change their power settings.

I never go into a match with the goal of self destructing. I go into a match trying to win until I notice there is no chance at winning or such a low chance it is not worth dragging the game out twice as long.

The current system of only counting wins and losses in GSF/PvP promotes ending matches as quickly as possible when you are on a losing team. This is the core problem with daily and weekly PvP missions and why people self destruct, go AFK, and intentionally lose games as quickly as possible... because they are rewarded for it and not rewarded for participating in a match that is already lost.

Edited February 14 by Darkestmonty

[Ramalina]

18 hours ago, DakhathKilrathi said:

That someone in this thread is seriously defending their decision to lose on purpose is why we need a developer solution, here. Clearly there is no convincing players who do it, so the game needs to actively discourage it by letting us kick the people who do it. 

A more aggressive kick isn't the only way to do it.   A stacking respawn time increase would do it.   You die, and it increments a died_recently flag by +1 from a default value of 0.  Every three minutes died_recently is decremented by -1 until it reaches 0 again.   For each respawn you look at died recently, and evaluate died_recently - 1,  then multiply that by a time delay say one minute, that then gets added to your respawn timer.   So two freebee deaths, and then a ramping respawn delay that abates if you stay alive for a few minutes.   Set the delay value as you please to rate limit self destructs without being too harsh on new players dying through sheer inexperience.

 

Given how hard it is get people to focus on vote kicking a bad actor during a match, an automated rate limit may be a more viable approach.   I think that's what ultimately drove the decision to have auto-kick for non-participation be implemented.

[Darkestmonty]

26 minutes ago, Ramalina said:

A more aggressive kick isn't the only way to do it.   A stacking respawn time increase would do it.   You die, and it increments a died_recently flag by +1 from a default value of 0.  Every three minutes died_recently is decremented by -1 until it reaches 0 again.   For each respawn you look at died recently, and evaluate died_recently - 1,  then multiply that by a time delay say one minute, that then gets added to your respawn timer.   So two freebee deaths, and then a ramping respawn delay that abates if you stay alive for a few minutes.   Set the delay value as you please to rate limit self destructs without being too harsh on new players dying through sheer inexperience.

 

Given how hard it is get people to focus on vote kicking a bad actor during a match, an automated rate limit may be a more viable approach.   I think that's what ultimately drove the decision to have auto-kick for non-participation be implemented.

there is no actual vote kick in GSF, it's automated.

You are trying to create way of punishing people into playing the way you want versus trying to find a way to encourage people to want to play the game.

Stacking Respawn

This will eventually lead all the new players who are being spawn camped by the premade GSF team to be auto kicked from the game on the third death because they are technically not participating while they are waiting 3 minutes to respawn.

good job, you just created a way to discourage new players from ever joining GSF after they are spawned camped.

[Toraak]

6 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

there is no actual vote kick in GSF, it's automated.

You are trying to create way of punishing people into playing the way you want versus trying to find a way to encourage people to want to play the game.

Stacking Respawn

This will eventually lead all the new players who are being spawn camped by the premade GSF team to be auto kicked from the game on the third death because they are technically not participating while they are waiting 3 minutes to respawn.

good job, you just created a way to discourage new players from ever joining GSF after they are spawned camped.

1st your only partially right. There is an autokick. However if someone has the Noncontributing symbol, they can also be vote kicked before the autokick gets triggered. The thing is most people never bother to look for that flag, and never even attempt to vote kick someone not contributing.

 

As for your spawn camping comment. There are 3 spawn points in TDM's, and most Dom matches have multiple spawn points. If one point is being camped. Spawn someplace else. 

Edited February 14 by Toraak

[DakhathKilrathi]

1 hour ago, Ramalina said:

A more aggressive kick isn't the only way to do it.   A stacking respawn time increase would do it.   You die, and it increments a died_recently flag by +1 from a default value of 0.  Every three minutes died_recently is decremented by -1 until it reaches 0 again.   For each respawn you look at died recently, and evaluate died_recently - 1,  then multiply that by a time delay say one minute, that then gets added to your respawn timer.   So two freebee deaths, and then a ramping respawn delay that abates if you stay alive for a few minutes.   Set the delay value as you please to rate limit self destructs without being too harsh on new players dying through sheer inexperience.

 

Given how hard it is get people to focus on vote kicking a bad actor during a match, an automated rate limit may be a more viable approach.   I think that's what ultimately drove the decision to have auto-kick for non-participation be implemented.

This is a good idea. I was assuming the most we'll get out of them is a tweak to what already exists. My only issue is that I'm not sure what values would avoid punishing aggressive play while still limiting SDers. Maybe two different timers? One for TDM, one for domination. I can't speak for everyone but I am more likely to die in domination because I can afford riskier and more aggressive play. TDM on the other hand every point matters. 

[Toraak]

1 minute ago, DakhathKilrathi said:

This is a good idea. I was assuming the most we'll get out of them is a tweak to what already exists. My only issue is that I'm not sure what values would avoid punishing aggressive play while still limiting SDers. Maybe two different timers? One for TDM, one for domination. I can't speak for everyone but I am more likely to die in domination because I can afford riskier and more aggressive play. TDM on the other hand every point matters. 

I definitely die more in Dom matches. Deaths mean less in that game mode, and if your team is losing it may be necessary to be far more aggressive, causing more deaths.

[Darkestmonty]

14 minutes ago, Toraak said:

I definitely die more in Dom matches. Deaths mean less in that game mode, and if your team is losing it may be necessary to be far more aggressive, causing more deaths.

or if you are being spawn camped locked out of respawning for 3 minutes and being auto-kicked from the game with a shiny 15 minute lock out as a reward!!

You need to think of ways to make GSF worth playing even when your team is going to lose and stop focusing on ways to punish people into playing how you think they should. Because no matter what rule you come up with, people are going to find a way around it.

I have seen so many bad players get killed repeatedly by the pilots camping their spawn. I'm honestly shocked I don't see more rage quitting than self destructing but if this rule goes into place I won't even see that because every player new to GSF won't last half the game before the system auto-kicks them for dying too much and not being able to respawn.

But even if they aren't auto-kicked immediately I'm sure the new player will enjoy sitting there for 3 minutes doing absolutely nothing, finally get to respawn, die and get another 3 minute lock out.

Edited February 14 by Darkestmonty

[DakhathKilrathi]

29 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

a bunch of stuff not really on topic

if you'd like to learn how to play the game do feel free to DM me; i'm happy to offer tips and even review gameplay with a second-by-second breakdown. 

i am not going to go into how you're wrong because that's derailing the thread. 

Anyway this was a good idea with some tweaks: 

 

1 hour ago, Ramalina said:

A more aggressive kick isn't the only way to do it.   A stacking respawn time increase would do it.   You die, and it increments a died_recently flag by +1 from a default value of 0.  Every three minutes died_recently is decremented by -1 until it reaches 0 again.   For each respawn you look at died recently, and evaluate died_recently - 1,  then multiply that by a time delay say one minute, that then gets added to your respawn timer.   So two freebee deaths, and then a ramping respawn delay that abates if you stay alive for a few minutes.   Set the delay value as you please to rate limit self destructs without being too harsh on new players dying through sheer inexperience.

 

Given how hard it is get people to focus on vote kicking a bad actor during a match, an automated rate limit may be a more viable approach.   I think that's what ultimately drove the decision to have auto-kick for non-participation be implemented.