Credit Transfer limits to SV

[FrontLineFodder]

6 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

ok and what about the people who have mained on SV ? Started on SV ? lived in this economy for over 2 months ?

Grown this economy.

Like me, who logged in the hour it started and played on it every day since ?

6 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

A few questions for you. Asked to gauge what effort you have placed into the SV community.

What's your gear score ? 

Rough estimation of the value of your legacy ?

Have you opened any strongholds ?

Do you currently have Augs if so what color?

How many toons have you leveled on SV ?

340 Gear Score mix of elite and supreme

Value of my legacy ?

in credits or Items ?

probably 500K credits, maybe 6M in CM items at current GTN prices

I have created a solo guild on pub and imp sides, purchased banks on each and a flagship on imp (there is 8M alone)

I have opened 6 strongholds, using CC from GS mostly

No Augments currently, waiting to transfer my crafters, there is no way in the 9 hells I want to face the RNG demons again levelling those up, it is criminal how the schematic learning is coded.

2 toons to 80, one on each side so I could complete GS content before the season ended.

I have 4 in progress and another 12 created for playing later on

[FrontLineFodder]

23 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

ok and what about the people who have mained on SV ? Started on SV ? lived in this economy for over 2 months ?

Grown this economy.

 

A few questions for you. Asked to gauge what effort you have placed into the SV community.

What's your gear score ? 

Rough estimation of the value of your legacy ?

Have you opened any strongholds ?

Do you currently have Augs if so what color?

How many toons have you leveled on SV ?

I have replied, how about you ?

[Dylanof]

1 hour ago, FrontLineFodder said:

I have replied, how about you ?

I have 6 toons hand leveled to 80 

all augment crafting is done and producing and a biochem.

all 340+ some with some pieces of 344. Two toons blue auged.

I have opened 4 strongholds with credits currently opening Yavin 2 doors down.

I have 15m in commander compendiums. 3 mil worth of augs and kits made by myself and 8m cash on hand.

and am helping fund a guild to the tune of 1 to 2m per week.

 

Edited January 21 by Dylanof

[Darcmoon]

3 hours ago, Dylanof said:

The trade fees, GTN travel and repair rose yes. I'm saying the incidentals like purple comp gifts did not rise. Upgrading noble or columi didnt rise that is all still standard and did not change or am i wrong ?.

 

Upgrading any of the gear is new with 7.0.  The prices for it are already set up for the inflation seen on the other servers.  The repair prices were manually changed because BW basically didn’t like how they scaled with 7.0. 

[Dylanof]

13 minutes ago, Darcmoon said:

Upgrading any of the gear is new with 7.0.  The prices for it are already set up for the inflation seen on the other servers.  The repair prices were manually changed because BW basically didn’t like how they scaled with 7.0. 

Yeah but the price on the upgrades didn't go up as 7.0 and the new gear system was implemented under bioware ? or am i mistaken. happy to admit I'm wrong if i am.

[Darcmoon]

26 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

Yeah but the price on the upgrades didn't go up as 7.0 and the new gear system was implemented under bioware ? or am i mistaken. happy to admit I'm wrong if i am.

They didn’t need to ‘go up’.  The credit costs for upgrading your gear is set with the inflation on the servers around when 7.0 dropped in mind.  They aren’t set with the idea of a fresh server as far as I can tell. 
 

Not sure why you mention them being implemented under BW. The GTN update, repair costs adjustments, and Quick travel fees were all started before BW became BS if not already implemented before that. 

[DWho]

5 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

1 Billion credits per character. 

Far too much. 250 million per account is more in line with what is needed.

[DWho]

3 hours ago, ufion said:

The majority of players can't login daily and do hours of heroics each day. The endgame raiding community want to do Operations; not participate in silly conquest cycles grinding repetitive content.

It's an MMO. Grinding for credits to do the content you want is part of the game. A reasonable amount of credits transferred to cover basic costs is what should happen, not having enough credits to "raid" forever without having to touch any of the other content.

[DeannaVoyager]

56 minutes ago, DWho said:

It's an MMO. Grinding for credits to do the content you want is part of the game. A reasonable amount of credits transferred to cover basic costs is what should happen, not having enough credits to "raid" forever without having to touch any of the other content.

Nope. Grinding for credits to be able to do content we want is like having a job so that you can afford to go to work. 

Grinding for credits to be able to buy shiny, unnecessary things is fine, grinding for credits to be able to play the game is not. I'm already paying real money to play the game and that should be enough. It's enough on all other servers and it should be enough on Shae Vizla.
 

[DWho]

10 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Nope. Grinding for credits to be able to do content we want is like having a job so that you can afford to go to work. 

Grinding for credits to be able to buy shiny, unnecessary things is fine, grinding for credits to be able to play the game is not. I'm already paying real money to play the game and that should be enough. It's enough on all other servers and it should be enough on Shae Vizla.
 

The economy is broken on all the other servers, that's why they are talking about restrictions.

Besides, we are talking about an exceedingly small part of the population impacted by repair costs (99% of the people playing the game won't ever have repair costs anywhere near what progression raiders do). Allowing everyone to bring over huge numbers of credits so a handful of players don't have to do any content they don't like makes no sense. If you want to deal with repair costs for progression raiders, a better solution is to have a group ability that reduces repair costs while in an Operation.

[FrontLineFodder]

59 minutes ago, DWho said:

The economy is broken on all the other servers, that's why they are talking about restrictions.

Besides, we are talking about an exceedingly small part of the population impacted by repair costs (99% of the people playing the game won't ever have repair costs anywhere near what progression raiders do). Allowing everyone to bring over huge numbers of credits so a handful of players don't have to do any content they don't like makes no sense. If you want to deal with repair costs for progression raiders, a better solution is to have a group ability that reduces repair costs while in an Operation.

I need an education, perhaps you can help.

How is the "Economy" broken on, lets say Star Forge.

Can people not earn credits ? no, players earn plenty of credits though playing the game, more and more as they level up.

Can people not repair their items or upgrade their gear ? no gear is repaired or upgraded from vendors for set prices this service is unlimited as long as you have the requested funds.

Can people not engage in the Player trade market, no, they can, anyone can list items for sale at whatever price the player wants*

Can people not buy items for the prices players choose to list them at ? no, any item that is listed for any price can be purchased by any player with the available credits.*

 

the only issue I see is players who don't have the funds to buy something that another player as deemed it's value at

OR

a player if FTP and can't use their credits in their legacy bank due to FTP restrictions.

 

This is my understanding, but please help me understand what is broken.

edit:
* within the limits of the Player market restriction, e.g. 3B Max prince

Edited January 21 by FrontLineFodder
*

[DWho]

10 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

I need an education, perhaps you can help.

How is the "Economy" broken on, lets say Star Forge.

 

It's broken because the cost of buying items on the GTN far exceeds the effort in generating the credits by playing the game (just look at the hoops people go through to farm credits now from the game - they need to play dozens of characters for 15 hrs per day or more). The only way to afford most stuff on the GTN now is to spend real world money buying the credits (from credit sellers or from purchasing CM items to sell). There are too many credits in the server economy which has devalued them.

When the game came out, you could reasonably grind enough credits through the content to buy anything on the GTN (since credits from grinding content yourself was really the only source). Now after years of credit exploits, gold sellers, and server merges, it is much easier to acquire credits trading on the GTN (which takes significantly less time that acquiring them through gameplay - thus accelerating inflationary pressures).

[frizzydude]

13 hours ago, Dylanof said:

However the price of services in the other server did not rise to counteract the amount of credits in the economy. creating the disparity.

 

The service prices on SV we pay a premium compared to the other servers however the only thing maybe some higher than normal repair bills that are easily counter balanced through heroic daily content or crafting and sales.

Raiders don't have the time to run heroics to fund their prog, they've done that for years. Some of us now just log in to raid as that's the only time we have. Forcing us to spam heroics will force us to leave and kill the endgame community

[frizzydude]

12 hours ago, Dylanof said:

Just finished two heroic planets Taris and Corellia no bonus 400k, 40 minutes of content hanging out with a friend.

 

The augment system incentivizes you to craft. It has been simplified since 7.0 not having to do pvp to get the item you can now just buy it for tech frags which means you need to push more content. and again pushes you to craft your own equipment. you also have the option to buy it through the GTn where someone else has put their time into crafting that item for you.

 

Heroic content has more value due to the limited server economy you play you get rewarded well for your time. People need to understand your not going to have gold augs instantly its something to work towards. This is the real crux of the issue. People want to transfer in all this so they don't have to spend time building, progressing and achieving.

 

 

 

Build time doing what we've all done already. 

[frizzydude]

12 hours ago, Dylanof said:

ok and what about the people who have mained on SV ? Started on SV ? lived in this economy for over 2 months ?

Grown this economy.

 

A few questions for you. Asked to gauge what effort you have placed into the SV community.

What's your gear score ? 

Rough estimation of the value of your legacy ?

Have you opened any strongholds ?

Do you currently have Augs if so what color?

How many toons have you leveled on SV ?

 

 

 

1 bil per character!

 

Heres my breakdown.

Gear score 343. Full rakata bis

Value would be high. Legendary status, ops, etc

2 strongholds

11 gold augs, rest purple

10 characters leveled.

 

And wanna know how? Heroics. Uni/work holidays. Thats over now so people dont have the time to farm menial things like heroics. 40 mins for 400k is a joke and that can go down the drain in 2 or 3 wipes of prog in my gear rating. 

We need our credits. And it's not going to do anything to YOUR economy. I couldnt care less what cosmetics people want from the GTN, i but the crafting mats i need, and thats it. The rest goes to me. Spending credits on vendors. Repairs. Qt. SH upgrades. Helping level my guild with unlocks.

[Dylanof]

4 minutes ago, frizzydude said:

1 bil per character!

 

Heres my breakdown.

Gear score 343. Full rakata bis

Value would be high. Legendary status, ops, etc

2 strongholds

11 gold augs, rest purple

10 characters leveled.

 

And wanna know how? Heroics. Uni/work holidays. Thats over now so people dont have the time to farm menial things like heroics. 40 mins for 400k is a joke and that can go down the drain in 2 or 3 wipes of prog in my gear rating. 

We need our credits. And it's not going to do anything to YOUR economy. I couldnt care less what cosmetics people want from the GTN, i but the crafting mats i need, and thats it. The rest goes to me. Spending credits on vendors. Repairs. Qt. SH upgrades. Helping level my guild with unlocks.

22k per wipe im seeing on average. Does the gold augs increase your repair bill further ? i thought it was level based.

That would be 16 wipes.

The GTN is not only the cosmetic market it is the augmentation market. I'm looking at the game as a whole each piece of content and how it flows into the other. End game raiders and only looking at end game NiM raids and cant understand fundamental economics.

 

343 you did well Ronsta nice work mate. That is a good amount of effort

[Toraak]

On 1/19/2024 at 11:08 PM, Dylanof said:

So then we should open a discussion into repair bills and repairs from end game content ?

Other MMOs such As GW2 have removed gear damage and moved to a pickup buff could something like that work here and help the economy by not needing to flood the server to promote end game content ?

And removing the repairing of the gear will just speed up bringing SV's Economy to where the other servers are. You want that server to stay as a fresh start (which it really shouldn't be regardless), however repairing gear is a massive credit sink. The economies on the other servers are the way they are because we've lost almost every credit sink the game used to have.

[Dylanof]

2 minutes ago, Toraak said:

And removing the repairing of the gear will just speed up bringing SV's Economy to where the other servers are. You want that server to stay as a fresh start (which it really shouldn't be regardless), however repairing gear is a massive credit sink. The economies on the other servers are the way they are because we've lost almost every credit sink the game used to have.

Very true but if it was not an issue during progression raiding. There wouldn't be a need for these people to think oh i need to inject billions and billion to "afford" the "repair bill" like they are claiming.

[frizzydude]

3 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

22k per wipe im seeing on average. Does the gold augs increase your repair bill further ? i thought it was level based.

Repair cost scales with gear and level I believe. I had 3 wipes in a HM op yesterday and got a 300k repair.

5 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

343 you did well Ronsta nice work mate. That is a good amount of effort

Thanks mate, very slow grind starting from scratch. I'm just lucky I had the time to do it, which many people won't leading back into the working year.

[Dylanof]

1 minute ago, frizzydude said:

Repair cost scales with gear and level I believe. I had 3 wipes in a HM op yesterday and got a 300k repair.

Thanks mate, very slow grind starting from scratch. I'm just lucky I had the time to do it, which many people won't leading back into the working year.

Something to progress into the future then. always nice to have a goal something to grind on.

[Toraak]

7 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

Very true but if it was not an issue during progression raiding. There wouldn't be a need for these people to think oh i need to inject billions and billion to "afford" the "repair bill" like they are claiming.

Not everyone has time anymore to keep farming credits. I stopped years ago and I still sponge off of those I earned while raiding. There are many like me. When we were young we had plenty of time. Now we have Jobs, Families, and Real Life to deal with. Many are lucky to have the time to raid at all, and not spend hours farming credits.

 

[DWho]

12 minutes ago, Toraak said:

Not everyone has time anymore to keep farming credits. I stopped years ago and I still sponge off of those I earned while raiding. There are many like me. When we were young we had plenty of time. Now we have Jobs, Families, and Real Life to deal with. Many are lucky to have the time to raid at all, and not spend hours farming credits.

 

There is no need to drop hundreds of billions of credits onto the server just so a handful of players can raid without having to put any effort into acquiring credits. Reducing the equipment damage in Operations would have almost no effect on the server economy (there just are not enough progression raiders around for their repair bills to have any significant impact on credit sinks) and is a far better solution. The GTN/trade taxes had more effect on the economy of the other servers than the travel costs and repairs did (so Broadsword could even go back to the original damage model with minimal effect on the economy).

Edited January 21 by DWho

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, DWho said:

The GTN/trade taxes had more effect on the economy of the other servers than the travel costs and repairs did (so Broadsword could even go back to the original damage model with minimal effect on the economy).

100% this 👆

[TrixxieTriss]

7 hours ago, FrontLineFodder said:

How is the "Economy" broken on, lets say Star Forge

It is broken & has been for the last several years because BW ignored the problem until it started to impact their own CM revenue stream. 
And because they let it run in Hyperinflation mode for 2-3 years, it’s now much harder to rein it in. 

They have now stabilised the economy, it’s no longer in hyperinflation mode & we’ve actually seen some deflation. But it’s still broken & running at 3 different speeds because of how many credits the mega rich players have sitting there. 

Nothing they’ve done so far with credit sinks like repairs or travel, actually targets that wealth or affects those players at all. The only people affected by those credit sinks are new players, returning players or people who are time poor. 

And while I agree with 75% of the GTN & p2p trade changes, they went to far with some & are actually reducing competition on the GTN & making the mega rich, richer. Especially the change that forces people to only buy the cheapest listed first. 

They’ve also alienated many raiders & people who would like to help out new players or friends with gifts. Not having a mechanism in place to allow that has damaged the community spirit & actually driven players from the game. 

There is still a lot of work to be done to fix the broken economy on the older servers. If they really want to fix it, there needs to be some sort of credit sink that specifically targets the mega rich in the game & has zero impact on new/returning/poor players. 

They also need to remove the cheapest only sells first mechanic on the GTN before they drive more sellers out of the market which will ultimately reduce competition.
Then add in a mechanism to gift players items with no tax. This could be done by making those gifted items Bind to Legacy. 

Until they do that, the economy will remain broken. 

Edited January 22 by TrixxieTriss

[Dylanof]

42 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Especially the change that forces people to only buy the cheapest listed first. 

 

Free market economics in a closed system.

Lowest bid most often gets the work and this incentivizes realistic prices.

I saw a 3 pack commander compendium on the GTN the other day for 12.8m which was well in excess of what 3 singles would go for at the time at 1.6m each.

 

Greed is punished because people know the average historical value of an item. The community will set the price through supply and demand and what they feel the item is worth. If the Price is to high your going to pay for it in listing fees and it wont sell.