Dear Broadsword .. update to GTN has ruined my game.

[Darkestmonty]

10 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

but then we go back he what i told trixxietriss about it all so its still going to become a problem in the end if you craft dye's or weapons or armors in the end there both share the same problem.

here is the thing about that made up problem.

People have not stopped using the GTN en masse. They won't because it is the most convenient way to buy and sell.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Spikanor]

1 minute ago, Darkestmonty said:

here is the thing about that made up problem.

People are have no stopped using the GTN en masse. They won't because it is the most convenient way to buy and sell.

you know he there are diffrend type of sellers he and there is a group that is bound to each other more and if that group is selling less then the other group what is bound to it is also going to hurt from it since you get a cain of effects from it then.

[TrixxieTriss]

4 hours ago, Spikanor said:

so if in this case @TrixxieTriss has a lot of the dye's schematic's from the legend rank from the daily missions and daily planets and that was also his market then the buyers are screwt more then him since there not wane put effort in to run that contant to become legend rank with the reputation and spent month's on it to reach it for the dye schematic only.

That’s true. I’ve actually got all those schematics from grinding rep to buy them. Without players like me doing that & crafting, many of those dyes wouldn’t be available for other players. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Darkestmonty]

14 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

you know he there are diffrend type of sellers he and there is a group that is bound to each other more and if that group is selling less then the other group what is bound to it is also going to hurt from it since you get a cain of effects from it then.

close knit groups can still trade directly or use COD.

I'm going to miss seeing the names of other traders I dealt with on the GTN, I'm also going to miss mailing players about specific items to work out a trade, but having lowest price sell first and anonymity stops a lot of possible scams, harassment, and using the GTN to pass purchased credits around.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Spikanor]

1 minute ago, Darkestmonty said:

close knit groups can still trade directly or use COD.

let me tell it this way.

you wane buy a new PC or phone or car.

all the stuff the new pc or phone or car needs there for the builders need to look for other company's that sell it to then and make then.

and there need also other company's that find it for then if there wane make then.

if the first in the cain by looking for the stuff and get it out of the ground is doing less work means the other company's are also going to get hurt that it ends with you as the last in the cain from it.

remember the chips problems what has curse a big cain of effects in the world.

thats how it also works with crafting and selling if the first in the cain is selling less of the supply then the others get hurt also in the end and the final stop is the player that wane buy the product and use it that gets hurt also.

[Darkestmonty]

14 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

let me tell it this way.

you wane buy a new PC or phone or car.

all the stuff the new pc or phone or car needs there for the builders need to look for other company's that sell it to then and make then.

and there need also other company's that find it for then if there wane make then.

if the first in the cain by looking for the stuff and get it out of the ground is doing less work means the other company's are also going to get hurt that it ends with you as the last in the cain from it.

remember the chips problems what has curse a big cain of effects in the world.

thats how it also works with crafting and selling if the first in the cain is selling less of the supply then the others get hurt also in the end and the final stop is the player that wane buy the product and use it that gets hurt also.

unless a server has a very small population (The Leviathan) the number of crafters supplying items as common as player made dyes won't be an issue. And if there is a big market for a certain player made dyes that isn't being met, someone will fill that market.

Even I'll fill the market of player made dyes if they are profitable enough (they aren't, I make more credits selling easier to obtain raw materials than selling dyes).

If crafters want to refuse to use the GTN because of the changes, that's fine, you saw the screenshot I provided of player made dyes, there are more than enough dyes sitting on the GTN unsold that a few crafters protesting hasn't effected anything.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Spikanor]

@Darkestmonty

its also if there are less people that sell the mats for the crafters the price's for the mats only become's higher and higher that at some point you most pay 150k credits for 1 mat since a lot of people have stop selling the mats on the GTN that means the final product become's higher and the buyer that buys the final product most also pay more.

if less people sell mats on the GTN since there not trust the new GTN its also going to hurt the other group of players thats what i mean with the sellers group what are bound to each other.

the craft dye's , craft weapons, mods, craft crystals, craft armor's are all bound to the group of craft mats sellers and when that group is going to sell les the other groups from crafters are going feel the effect from it when the final product is going to hurt the players that are going to use it.

its a compleet diffrend story from the group that sell's cartal market stuff on the GTN since there are a other group what has notting to do with that so there feel notting.

to let you know also i am in the group of crafters to make it more clear i am in both groups doing my work.

i sell the mat's to crafters on the GTN , i sell also my own craft final product to other players so i deal in both groups more on the GTN.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Spikanor

[Darkestmonty]

18 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

@Darkestmonty

its also if there are less people that sell the mats for the crafters the price's for the mats only become's higher and higher that at some point you most pay 150k credits for 1 mat since a lot of people have stop selling the mats on the GTN that means the final product become's higher and the buyer that buys the final product most also pay more.

if less people sell mats on the GTN since there not trust the new GTN its also going to hurt the other group of players thats what i mean with the sellers group what are bound to each other.

the craft dye's , craft weapons, mods, craft crystals, craft armor's are all bound to the group of craft mats sellers and when that group is going to sell les the other groups from crafters are going feel the effect from it when the final product is going to hurt the players that are going to use it.

its a compleet diffrend story from the group that sell's cartal market stuff on the GTN since there are a other group what has notting to do with that so there feel notting.

to let you know also i am in the group of crafters to make it more clear i am in both groups doing my work.

i sell the mat's to crafters on the GTN , i sell also my own craft final product to other players so i deal in both groups more on the GTN.

this will only be a problem on servers with small populations. On well populated servers any market with large enough profit margins will be quickly filled be it final products or the materials needed to make those products. On DM, SS, and SF I've seen no negative impact from sellers refusing to sell on the GTN due to the update and I probably won't because this quarter and the next are usually the busiest for SWTOR.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Spikanor]

Just now, Darkestmonty said:

this will only be a problem on servers with small populations. On larger servers any market with a large enough profit margin is quickly filled and at least on DM, SS, and SF I've seen no negative impact from sellers refusing to sell on the GTN due to the update.

it has not to be short therm he it can also that you see the effect in the long therm from it.

remember the new server release.

people told on the forum that there are happy it has a big population on it and there was 1 guy telling to me that there was no problem at all with the game since the new server was doing so good in population.

you know what i told him then lets wait and see how its going to be in the next few month's since then you can see the effect's from it.

sadly i was wrong with that since the effects have been showing how worse the population has become on the new server after few weeks from the opening all so it was really fast how the effect's has been showing and so far i read its only has become worse.

the effect's from things there have add or have chance need always some time before you see it if its working or not since you never can tell from day one if its something good or bad.

to see the effects on the new GTN can take a few weeks or some month's before you can tell its something good or there have make it worse again.

[FrontLineFodder]

one of the biggest complaints I see (and agree with) about the new GTN is the undercutting of the price, so "only" the lowest priced item sells.

What would be a good alternative ? force players to pay for the most expensive item, no. (that's a joke btw, not being serious with that comment)

What if you could only list items in units of 10 to 1% for the price you are selling.

• items under 1k can be listed in units of 10
  • 10 credits up to 990 credits
• under 100k can be listed in units of 1,000
  • 1,000 up to 99,000 credits
• under 1m items can be listed in units of 10,000
  • 100,000 up to 990,000 credits
• under 1b can be listed in units of 1,000,000
  • 1,000,000 up to 999,000,000 credits
• under 10b can be listed in units of 10,000,000
  • 1,000,000,000 up to GTN Credit limit value (somewhere in the 3B range)

undercutting of prices will still happen, but more limited and not by just 1 credit (on a 100m item right now the pricing allows for undercutting by 0.000001% ).

if there is sufficient supply available the lower price would trend down. That's what buyers want. If not the prices trend up, which is what sellers want.

there will always be someone willing to undercut the going rate for a quick sell, but it won't steer the market unless there are enough sellers willing to take the 1% (or more) cut

I expect there are plenty of people who would complain about this just as much, "I should have the freedom to list my in game items for whatever price I want." (funny thing is you do right now, but people are still complaining)

 

BroadSword need to clarify the GTN sale process,

• If seller A lists an item first for 2K
• Seller B listed the same item second for 2K
• Seller c lists third for 1K.

when buyer d purchases the item they see 3 listed, one for 1K and two for 2K. if they buy 1 then Seller C's item is sold.

when buyer e comes and purchases the item, they now see just 2 items available, and if they buy just 1, seller a's item should be sold for 2K

This is how we would expect it to work (I have not seen any player tests confirming this)

Edited December 11, 2023 by FrontLineFodder
corrected percentage

[Samcuu]

"Someone keeps undercutting me and selling dyes!! I'm going to quit selling dyes now...you just wait there will be nobody to craft dyes anymore cuz of this issue!"  

My friends in the force, who do u think keeps undercutting you? You think those dyes that are selling before yours are just materializing out of thin air? 

[Spikanor]

1 minute ago, Samcuu said:

"Someone keeps undercutting me and selling dyes!! I'm going to quit selling dyes now...you just wait there will be nobody to craft dyes anymore cuz of this issue!"  

this is now what we have keep telling on the PTS thread that this is going to happing now and its only going to happing more.

so we told you so that this was going to happing with the new GTN chance.

[FrontLineFodder]

when you buy a bottle of soda you are paying $1.99, $2.99 dollars and cents.

when you buy a phone you are spending $250, $599 whole dollars

when you buy a car you are spending $15,900, $32,900 units of hundred of dollars

when you buy a house (yeah I know, what a joke that is) you are using units in the thousands of dollars.

 

It would be interesting to see a Japanese person's take on this, their housing market goes around 30-50 million yen (according to google)

how does their economy handle units of their currency, I assume they are not auctioning off houses in units of a single yen

 

[Samcuu]

9 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

this is now what we have keep telling on the PTS thread that this is going to happing now and its only going to happing more.

so we told you so that this was going to happing with the new GTN chance.

As of now it's a theory that over time could prove true or false. But for now there are plenty of dyes for sale on the gtn. 

[LD_Little_Dragon]

7 hours ago, GuigeekRhadamant said:

You mean that thing?

How about making it even LESS clear?

I would just like to point out that this makes the 'have to buy the cheapest item' issue very clear.

A lot of the currently complaints with the GTN system could be solved by allowing us to choose to pay a higher price.  If we can see the postings why shouldn't we be allowed to purchase them directly?   (removing the non-returnable posting fee would be nice too).

Pre the updates in a case like this I would skip the 3 495 000 items and buy the 3 500 000.  Essentially rewarding the 3 500 000 poster for lowering the prices significantly from the 3 800 000 range to the 3 500 000 range.  Now?  that poster will most likely not sell anything, because the minimal credit undercutters will keep their prices constantly under the 3 500 000 poster's.

Now, the 3 500 000 poster will probably not only fail to sell anything, but they will  also lose money when the items are returned.

How long do you think people will bother with dropping prices like that if it both costs them money and they still don't sell?  The best posting behaviour will be to join the '1 credit under' game and the prices will stay in the 3 800 000 range as long as people keep buying.

[Spikanor]

3 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

As of now it's a theory that over time could prove true or false. But for now there are plenty of dyes for sale on the gtn. 

but i not talking about the dye's there are untercutting for you.

i mean that you see now that people are starting to undercut more on all the items more then before the update.

you see it alot now that people undercut with 1 credit to become the first seller so that there buy you item.

and since you are forced to buy from the cheapste price there is without have any option to buy it for a other price what is 1 credit higher then the lowst seller people only going to complain more about the new GTN and there stop buying and selling more.

[FrontLineFodder]

2 minutes ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

How long do you think people will bother with dropping prices like that if it both costs them money and they still don't sell?  The best posting behaviour will be to join the '1 credit under' game and the prices will stay in the 3 800 000 range as long as people keep buying.

I guess the other thing about the new GTN is the fixed fee.

it's lower cost to list it for 12 hours, you could relist an item every 12 hours for 7 days and pay less than the listing for 7 days up front.

If this was a staffed auction house they would stop taking your business as you are wasting their time.

 

Flip it around and have all listing are 7 days,

• if it sells in the 12 hours it gets the lowest fee, hey you made it easy for us to sell.
• if. it stays on for 5 days you pay the max fee.
• if it does not sell, how about the developers not penalise sellers and refund (or at least discount) the listing fee and the "service" did not provide a successful sale.

 

not everyone has the time (or should for personal health reasons) be on the game 24/7, it's a game the only people for whom this is a business are the developers.

 

[Samcuu]

6 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

but i not talking about the dye's there are untercutting for you.

That's what I was talking about specifically tho. 

 

7 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

people only going to complain more about the new GTN

Yes

 

7 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

there stop buying and selling more

No

[DWho]

1 hour ago, FrontLineFodder said:

it's lower cost to list it for 12 hours, you could relist an item every 12 hours for 7 days and pay less than the listing for 7 days up front.

I think that is part of their point. They want to discourage people from listing items with very high prices in the hope they will sell eventually. They are looking for prices that encourage faster turn-over. Relisting every 12 hrs to get the best yield is going to be more effort than they want to put into it.

[TrixxieTriss]

4 hours ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

A lot of the currently complaints with the GTN system could be solved by allowing us to choose to pay a higher price.  If we can see the postings why shouldn't we be allowed to purchase them directly?   (removing the non-returnable posting fee would be nice too).

Exactly this 👆. It was discussed in the PTS forum when providing feedback & said this would be a big problem for players. I’m not sure why they chose this one thing to double down on & not listen to the feedback. 

[TrixxieTriss]

4 hours ago, FrontLineFodder said:

Flip it around and have all listing are 7 days,

• if it sells in the 12 hours it gets the lowest fee, hey you made it easy for us to sell.
• if. it stays on for 5 days you pay the max fee.
• if it does not sell, how about the developers not penalise sellers and refund (or at least discount) the listing fee and the "service" did not provide a successful sale.

 

Another good idea 👍 

[Spikanor]

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

It was discussed in the PTS forum when providing feedback & said this would be a big problem for players. I’m not sure why they chose this one thing to double down on & not listen to the feedback.

have there ever listing to the feedback from the PTS server.

the shift + click you normal can do with the GTN from the collections or so is also not working and has also been report on the PTS thread so why there not fix the bugs we report in the PTS since now there release a new GTN with the same bugs and problems.

so we go then back to the old question about it: why do we have a PTS in the first place then.

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Exactly this 👆. It was discussed in the PTS forum when providing feedback & said this would be a big problem for players. I’m not sure why they chose this one thing to double down on & not listen to the feedback. 

and it was dismissed by a lot of other PTS players who understood that the only reason people wanted the ability to purchase anything other than the lowest price were those who posted dyes for 3 billion credits in the hopes someone accidentally buys it, people who have credit sellers launder credits to them via the GTN, and people who think undercutting is a sin, but only with in their made up imaginary limits.

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[FrontLineFodder]

5 hours ago, DWho said:

I think that is part of their point. They want to discourage people from listing items with very high prices in the hope they will sell eventually. They are looking for prices that encourage faster turn-over. Relisting every 12 hrs to get the best yield is going to be more effort than they want to put into it.

Thats part of an issue though. players should not be posting to the GTN, then sometime in the next 12 hours (minimum) before the next buyer comes in, another seller undercuts then by 1 credit and gets the sale. as I said, at 100,000,000 credits, it is 0.000001% of the price.

as a buyer you don't wait for something to go on sale by 0.000001% before you buy it.

There is no issue with being undercut (well for most people) but on an item that might sell 1 per day, being undercut by 1 credit is not how a market should work.

on a custom crafted item that maybe sells 1 item per week the chances of being undercut by 1 credit are almost guaranteed. It doesn't matter what you list it for, for slow moving items you will always be undercut by 1 credit with the current system.

 

8 hours ago, FrontLineFodder said:

What if you could only list items in units of 10 to 1% for the price you are selling.

• items under 1k can be listed in units of 10
  • 10 credits up to 990 credits
• under 100k can be listed in units of 1,000
  • 1,000 up to 99,000 credits
• under 1m items can be listed in units of 10,000
  • 100,000 up to 990,000 credits
• under 1b can be listed in units of 1,000,000
  • 1,000,000 up to 999,000,000 credits
• under 10b can be listed in units of 10,000,000
  • 1,000,000,000 up to GTN Credit limit value (somewhere in the 3B range)

I need to rewrite this, my intent is the more digits in the price, the more 0's that cannot be changed.

      999
    9,990
   99,900
  999,000
9,990,000

being able to set the price with the 3 most significant digits (1% price granularity)

sellers who list their item, if the market is happy with the price, the first seller will have theirs sold first. (FIFO)

If a seller wants to move the market price down, theirs will sell first. but they have to move the price by at least 1%

[TrixxieTriss]

3 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

Thats part of an issue though. players should not be posting to the GTN, then sometime in the next 12 hours (minimum) before the next buyer comes in, another seller undercuts then by 1 credit and gets the sale. as I said, at 100,000,000 credits, it is 0.000001% of the price.

as a buyer you don't wait for something to go on sale by 0.000001% before you buy it.

There is no issue with being undercut (well for most people) but on an item that might sell 1 per day, being undercut by 1 credit is not how a market should work.

on a custom crafted item that maybe sells 1 item per week the chances of being undercut by 1 credit are almost guaranteed. It doesn't matter what you list it for, for slow moving items you will always be undercut by 1 credit with the current system.

 

I need to rewrite this, my intent is the more digits in the price, the more 0's that cannot be changed.

      999
    9,990
   99,900
  999,000
9,990,000

being able to set the price with the 3 most significant digits (1% price granularity)

sellers who list their item, if the market is happy with the price, the first seller will have theirs sold first. (FIFO)

If a seller wants to move the market price down, theirs will sell first. but they have to move the price by at least 1%

They don’t need to do all that work. All they need to do is allow people to buy items at what ever price they choose instead of forcing people to only buy the cheapest.